No - that is a careers scotland site, not the NHS.
Consultant Doctors get more than that. £100k is what shows up after a very quick look.
M_F - where did I say that this was recent? If I had my way no unnecessary treatments such as IVF would be paid for. Having a baby is a lifestyle choice. If you want one but aren't physically able to then you should not expect the NHS to pay for it.
where did I say that this was recent?
Which is why I said [b]or the procedures were undertaken some time ago[/b]
If you want one but aren't physically able to then you should not expect the NHS to pay for it.
In my opinion, everyone should be entitled to the services that NICE recommend should be available on the NHS. Be it cancer treatment drugs, IVF or whatever treatment, service or drug isn't available at a local level.
Oh how I love a bash the NHS thread.
My burst appendix - in and fixed in a flash.
Wifes almost fatal asthma attack - ambulance in and sorted bloody quick
Son's 30ft fall from a tree - helicopter in and sorted in a moment
Wifes back problem, taken 6 months to get sorted - painful but not potentially life threatening.
My dicky shoulder - round the houses several times and still going, it hurts but I can still ride/surf/work - they will solve it sometime but it is unlikely to kill me.
Never had to show a credit card, insurance policy or get my wallet out.
Get some ferking perspective.
I agree that there should be no post code lottery for want of a better phrase. But, with the condition that non-essential treatments are not available free.
I don't believe that IVF should be available on the NHS but I totally understand MFs frustration that it is in some areas but not in others.
If NICE says it should be available then it should be. I personally believe NICE is wrong but thats why we have NICE - to have experts making these difficult and controversial decisions independently
One round of IVF = one hip replacement. Funds are limited
I don't believe that IVF should be available on the NHS but I totally understand MFs frustration that it is in some areas but not in others.
Without wanting to hijack the OP, I really, REALLY do agree with this. I can honestly say that I would accept it if IVF was not available on the NHS at all, my issue with it all along was the disparity of provision.
When we went through our privately-funded course (due to the service not being available in North Yorkshire), we were treated in an NHS hospital in West Yorkshire alongside other people who were getting the treatment for free. We collected the required drugs from the hospital dispensary and handed over a cheque for £850 (that was JUST for the drugs). The next person collected an identical set of drugs and paid just the standard prescription charge - simply because of their postcode.
That is the madness I remain mad about.
Still, we have our twins now so I really shouldn't be mad should I?
A sore knee to IVF in one thread, now that is good going even by STW standards! 😆
BTW - IVF should NOT be provided free on the NHS. We have enough people on this small, overcrowded and delicate planet as it is. But that’s another thread altogether!
A sore knee to IVF in one thread, now that it good going even by STW standards!
via TJs hips
The sore knee bone is connected to the...
😆 @ uplink
How could i forget...
roger - it goes wrong sometimes. An idiotic rule that says at A&E you will bne treated or admitted within 4 hours meant that I went home with an untreated broken arm rather than be admitted to the same general ward that houses the friday night intake of wino's and headcases. Still, the reason I was close to admission was because people don't gereally die of a broken arm, so I was low priority matched against the potential head injuries that were coming in. That's just the result of an inappropriate target set by a politician who didn't understand how these things work.
It's just that when the NHS feks up, which it does just because of the sheer numbers coming in through the door, that fek up usually has a huge impact on the person they fekked up on
m-f has a point about treatment though. How galling must it be to pay for treatment that others are getting free just because of where they live? Treatment should be standardised, it's either on the NHS or it's not. (Not for IVF - IMO)
Mastiles - Your view of the NHS saddens me a bit, or maybe its just your wording. Yes the NHS is a right to people who live in the UK and pay taxes. However you SHOULD feel privileged to have FREE access to such a good system. If in 2-3 years time, if wards have to close due to lack of funds, they you definately will realise that it is a priveledge.
Goan - Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it!
Back to the original query (I have no medical training). You were referred to a consultant about your ankle, not your knee, and I guess at that point you had not mentioned your knee before, therefore there would be nothing in your notes. I guess he could have been thinking 1. Well it cant be that bad or he would have mentioned it before 2. Could the ankle be putting extra stress on the knee joint.
Maybe consultant #1 wrote in the notes that you had knee pain, and to investigate further if patient mentioned again in future.
the main consultation was for the achilles but the knee was mentioned several times !
as for ivf there will be another post if they use that to treat me 😉
perhaps blaming the nhs as a hole is wrong as i have had some excellent treatment in other areas, but i feel annoyed that perhaps every thing could have been treated as a hole as apposed to stages. i would have waited for this to happen
the knee has given me problems for about 4 years and the achilles is a result of run up hills to separate injuries and not related
the achilles is a result of run up hills
So self-inflicted then.
Why should hard-working taxpayers who have the common sense to walk, not run up hills, pay for your inability to behave responsibly ?
Bloody nhs ? More like the politically correct health and safety nanny state, which is in the firm grip of socialist Guardian readers and BBC lay abouts, gone stark raving bonkers, you mean.
And I bet you're probably an over-weight smoker roundwheels. And an asylum seeker too.
who stole Ernies log in?
Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it
In my dept, the starting salary for a consultant radiologist is £93k. That is ex on call, overtime and private work. I doubt if any of our consultants are making less than £100k.
Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it
In my dept, the starting salary for a consultant radiologist is £93k. That is ex on call, overtime and private work. I doubt if any of our consultants are making less than £100k.
who stole Ernies log in?
No one TJ.
I accidentally picked up a copy of the Daily Mail today and read an article by Richard Littlejohn, I now realise just how blinkered I have been as a result of Guardian/BBC propaganda.
Yes, if all these trendy leftie do-gooders weren't so worried about teenage schoolgirls so-called "human right" to get pregnant, then instead of the NHS being forced to provide them with IVF treatment so that they can live on benefits in houses paid for by taxpayers, the NHS might have sufficient funds to provide treatment for decent hard-working aryans.
rogerthecatOh how I love a bash the NHS thread.
Me too:
15 years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, given a 30% chance of surviving - had 7 operations and 3 courses of treatment (Chemo & radiotherapy) which left me sterile!
Did IVF 7 years ago total cost £11,000 (paid by my wife and I) by the time we'd tried twice and allowing for my needing very specialist treatment to father a child. We have a 6 year old and he's worth every penny spent!
My point is not to say I've had it hard but to ask the NHS bashers to tell me at what point should the NHS have stopped treating me?
Just for good measure I was diagnosed with a malignant skin cancer in March of this year which was dealt with swifty, professionally and with fantastic emotional support by the NHS, maybe they should just have said "bugger off you cost us a fortune last time!"
Help - Ernie has been abducted by aryans
I’m far from a NHS basher as I believe they offer an amazing service.
But...
My point is not to say I've had it hard but to ask the NHS bashers to tell me at what point should the NHS have stopped treating me?
Cancer - Involuntary (to an extent) so should be funded.
IVF - Voluntary so should NOT be funded. Overpopulation is one of the biggest threats to humanity we face.
BTW – Glad everything worked out, as it does sound like you where dealt a rubbish hand.
Karma will repay you 😀
Some interesting posts. I'm particularly interested in the voluntary/involuntary debates:
Cancer - involuntary? So that includes cancers of the lung caused by smoking and oropharyngeal cancers caused by excessive alcohol consumption does it?
IVF - voluntary, yes, infertility? Not sure you'd class that as voluntary.
Most of us on here voluntarily launch ourselves down steep hills and often end up with injuries that require NHS treatment - should that be funded?
It's all very easy to have a go at the NHS, the situation is seldom clear cut
so, lung cancer sufferer, life long smoker. Voluntary don't treat.
Infertility isn't voluntary.
In leftyboy's case, the treatment for cancer caused the sterility, still not allowed IVF?
Having children is a "want" not a "need". If there was plenty of money in the NHS pot fine - but there isn't ( we pay less than the european average still despite massive rises). When health care is rationed as it is then expensive treatments that are not needed for someone to be healthy should not be funded.
I don't buy the voluntary / involuntary thing or as its sometimes known the deserving and undeserving patient. simply because its impossible to draw a line that makes any sort of sense. Stitching up self harmers? Treating alcoholics? What about stress related high blood pressure from all those high whizzing city types? Stomach ulcers? etc etc. Probably more than half of all medical ( rather than surgical) treatments are for lifestyle related diseases or for diseases of affluence. Adult onset diabetes for example.
And I bet you're probably an over-weight smoker roundwheels. And an asylum seeker too
sorry to disapoint mate tee total ,Caucasian,hard working family man
so, lung cancer sufferer, life long smoker. Voluntary don't treat.
Yes, if you can prove 100% that the lung cancer was caused by smoking and not the environment the patent lived in. Now that would be an interesting legal case!
Infertility isn't voluntary.
Of course, IVF is though. It does not improve your (physical) quality of life, whereas chemotherapy or any other life saving procedures do. We all know accountants run the NHS and there is only so much money to go round. 😥
In leftyboy's case, the treatment for cancer caused the sterility, still not allowed IVF?
No, as he would have signed a consent form which will have informed him of all possible side effects of treatments he was about to undertake.
Having children is a privilege not a right 🙄
Anyway it’s time go and ride my bike down some really steep hills with rocks, trees and barbed wire on 😆
IVF - Voluntary so should NOT be funded. Overpopulation is one of the biggest threats to humanity we face.
errrmmmm couldn't one use the overpopulation argument as an excuse to not treat any disease/ailment? sure would help whittle down the population 🙂
Anyway it’s time go and ride my bike down some really steep hills with rocks, trees and barbed wire on
Do make sure to fall off and injure yourself, so you can get VFM from the NHS!
sofatester:No, as he would have signed a consent form which will have informed him of all possible side effects of treatments he was about to undertake.
Actually no as I was admitted as an emergency after losing 4 stone in 4 months and suddenly started pi**ing blood instead of urine. Straight in for surgery, no consent signed as I was semi-conscious from the combined weight and blood loss! After the event I asked about the whole chemo & fertility issue and was told I would already be infertile due to the progression of the cancer, apparently this happens in rare cases.
Having children is a privilege not a right
Easily said if you are able to father children naturally. The issue of over population is mainly down to families having 'lots' of children, but they have that right and therefore unless we adopt (no pun intended) the Chinese attitude to birth control we have to accept that our population is growing.
Possibly the hardest decision I've ever had to make was to not try for a second child via IVF, my wife would have liked a second child but the stress/costs/risk (we're 'older' parents) meant we didn't.
Easily said if you are able to father children naturally
Yes - I think that is the most important thing to consider when stating that IVF shouldn't be available to all on the NHS. I do know that there is at least one contributor on here that accepted that children were not his destiny as he was not able to father, but I would imagine that the vast majority would want and expect access to the service if and when they found it was required.
And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally.
[i]And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally. [/i]
:O
Am I not being clear?
I mean that I do not think that someone who has never experienced infertility could honestly say that they would not expect to get the service on the NHS should they subsequently find that they need the assistance.
For example, Poster A says 'IVF should not be available on the NHS because of x, y and z' yet they have never been in the position of needing IVF so I do not feel they have sufficient experience to be able to honestly say how they would feel if they later found they needed the help, either through their or their partner's infertility.
The first Doctor was right to leave it a while.
Unless it is serious then it should be fine or go away on it's own.
If it's still there after a week then sure the 2nd Doc was right.
Frustrating for you and work I know but you have to patient when being a patient...
Blimey is this thread still going? I thought we would have all been out riding out bikes by now!
[b]leftboy[/b] sounds like you had it bad there, hope everything is working out for the best now. 🙂
And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally.
TBH that is probably the last group of people you want to ask as they will hardly ever be able to give a rational, rounded answer. Obviously you would take there opinions on board but also use none biased sources as well, who can look at the big picture without emotion.
I know it's hard for some people to accept but having children is a like any other personal "want". Some people want to own a big house, some want a fast car, other want Children and some even want more that one. Don't know why though, as one is hard enough work! 😆
TBH that is probably the last group of people you want to ask as they will hardly ever be able to give a rational, rounded answer. Obviously you would take there opinions on board but also use none biased sources as well, who can look at the big picture without emotion.
I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not saying those that have been through the experience should be [b]making[/b] the decisions for the NHS, I mean they are the ones that are qualified to say whether they would expect to have the procedure covered by the NHS. For someone who has no desire to have a family, or for one in a relationship where conception has come naturally to say it shouldn't be covered hasn't been through the experience to know how they would actually feel.
Sorry my mistake, I presumed here on STW we did make the decisions about how everything in the world should be done 😆
Aye - my life is not complete without a blinged up unobtainium bike and due to congenital workshyness I can't earn enough money to have one - can I get one on the NHS?
Sorry to trivialise what is obviously painful to those of you that are infertile but IMO as an NHS worker there is a huge difference between treatments that are [b]needed[/b] to restore health or improve quality of life and treatments that people [b]want[/b] for cosmetic or social reasons.
As said above the people wanting this treatment are the last who can have an objective view on it. Their views should be considered but should not be the sole arbiter
If there was plenty of money in the pot them fine - but when one round of IVF costs around the same as one hip replacement................? What treatments should be not given so you can have IVF - the pot of money is finite so one persons IVF means another does not get treated. for something else. Mrs T waits longer for breast cancer treatment? Mr J does not get his hernia repaired this year?
I do absolutely sympathise with MF tho for being caught on the wrong end of a postcode lottery - that just stinks to high heaven.
[i]Am I not being clear?[/i]
perfectly clear.
[banging head against wall]
I am NOT saying that infertile people should be making the decisions for the NHS.
[/banging head against wall]
We know MF, keep on banging though 😆
You made yourself clear to me
I mean they are the ones that are qualified to say whether they would expect to have the procedure covered by the NHS
Oh! & no they're not
Crossed posts. However you do say
Only a very fine line really.I mean they are the ones that are qualified to say whether they would expect to have the procedure covered by the NHS.
I think I understand what you are getting at. as I have absolutely no desire to be a parent then I cannot understand why you are so anxious to be one - that your point?
as I have absolutely no desire to be a parent then I cannot understand why you are so anxious to be one - that your point?
Sort of, yes. You don't see the importance of IVF as you do not want to be a parent. If in the future you wanted to be a parent and found you couldn't, you may feel differently about your local PCTs provision for the service.
So MF - to give IVF free on the NHS what treatments do you drop? Its a finite amount of money and IVF is expensive. One course of IVF = one hip replecement or 3 hernia repairs or 6 bunion repairs. ( very roughly)
Whos treament can be delayed or not done so you can have IVF?
That isn't for me to decide.
The National Institute for Clinical Excellence advises what treatment should and shouldn't be provided on the NHS and they recommend that all qualifying couples (those that meet age and previous history requirements) should receive three courses of treatment using whatever method is required (which is advised by their consultant). The Government agrees with the NICE guidelines and has officially stated that all PCTs should follow the guidance.
My issue has only ever been that because I life in one of the three remaining PCTs out of the 165 nationwide that have made a local decision to ignore the recommendations, that we had to pay for our treatment.
It would be churlish for me to say that x, y or z treatment should be withdrawn in order for us to get the treatment we required.
To put it another way, if you required expensive cancer drugs (supply of which is subject to similar local decision-making as IVF provision) and you were told that your PCT did not provide them, but your neighbouring one did, how would you feel when you realise that you didn't have access to something that other individuals with a different postcode did?