MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Right so Bivvy'ing this weekend out for 3 days sleeping rough for 2 nights
I expect it will be wet and cold. Just got the stuff together I think I need and it's loads.
Need to ditch dome kit
Main 2 contenders to go are:
- Self inflating foam sleep mat
- Army Poncho
Do I need these? The poncho makes a great mini shelter when it raining and the sleep mat should keep me warmer it's just that both together are quite bulky.
I've got a good down bag now (never used it) and a AlpKit hunka do I need a mat as well?
Do I need the Poncho could always make a nano head shelter out of my Goretex Jacket?
Remember that the down in your sleeping bag will compress under your weight - effectively cutting it's insulating properties to zero.
poncho will break the wind if pitched to the floor on prevailing side making warmth loads better.
Ditch the mat and get a baloon bed, i shit you not.
You might be glad of the poncho or a tarp in this weather.
how much is your kit weighing in at?
so the conclusion is take both then?
Foam Mat
ME Down Bag
Alpkit Hunka
Army Poncho
Dry bag
[b]3916g[/b]
[b]Cooking [/b]
Outlander Micro Stove 160
Steel Mug 117
Lighhter 12
C100 Gas (full) 189
Small Pan & Lid 120
Smaller Pan 37
Bag & Strap 24
Spork 15
Chopsticks 5
[b]679g[/b]
[b]Sleep Clothes[/b]
Fleece
Socks
Running Tights [b]801g[/b]
Then bike tools some food, tube, pump, hip flask of scotch and waterproofs
Cook using the steel mug?
Steel Mug 117
😯
You've got a pan, so why the steel mug (in fact why 2 pans)?
2 of us going so 2 pans which double as bowls
Dry bag
For keeping kit dry in your pack? A couple of bin liners works fine, or if you're really bothered a sealed pack liner is a lot lighter than a full dry bag.
2 of us going so 2 pans which double as bowls
Fair enough, but one pan and a couple of plastic bowls is lighter.
Dry bag is also the compression bag
Foam Mat
ME Down Bag
Alpkit Hunka
Army Poncho
Dry bag
3916g
A Hunka is 400g. If I assume 1500g for the bag (I'd be surprised if it was much more), then that's 2kg for the mat, poncho and dry bag - that's an awful lot of weight for non-essentials. I'm not a big fan of balloon beds, but bubble wrap works fine for insulation from the ground. The poncho might be useful, bit is it rather heavy for what it is - a lightweight tarp might be just as useful but a lot lighter.
compression bag
For what? A down bag will compress as much as it's going to by hand stuffing.
I've bivvied in all weathers, and there's no way I would go without some form of mat. I use a small thermarest which fits neatly inside my bivvy bag. I have tried without and it was misery.
Ditch the foam mat and get an Alpkit Thermarest - they may be a little heavier, but roll up much smaller and are a lot warmer. Get rid of the poncho and tent too, just get a military issue Goretex bivi bag.
neoair's are the way forward
plastic cup. Get rid of the chopsticks. Get an old army foam sleep mat and trim it down if you can. Buy a bivvy bag that would be more efficient and probably lighter than the poncho. Use bin bgs as bag liners. Warm hat as well.
Army Poncho has to go I've decided, it's just too heavy
Gonna cut the same size out of some plastic pond liner in case extra shelter is needed
Can't your mate carry his own mug, and you carry one mug, you carry the stove, he carries the gas etc? Will save you a bit, but not enough really.
I guess the bag must be pretty heavy, but changing it to a lighter one is not going to to be cheap.
Alpkit might be able to get you a Pipedream 600 and a wee airic, which with your hunka would weigh in at just over 1.8kg, this will fit into a 13l dry bag, weighing **** all, change your poncho for a micro tarp from Backpackinglight (or make one yourself) and your all up weight will be about 2.1kg, just over half what you're quoting above.
Can't see another way of doing it, but it's going to cost you £200
plastic cups are crap you can cook in a metal one and junk a pan
+1 for goretex bivvy bag and short therma rest
Breaks down like this
My wife now thinks I'm mental weighing stuff on the kitchen scales
Foam Mat 666
ME Down Bag 1555
Bag sac 155
Alpkit Hunka 384
Army Poncho 933
Dry bag 256
So I'm gonna bin the Bag sac, dry bag & poncho.
Stuff the sleeping bag into the very bottom of the rucksac and use stuff on top to compress it.
The goretex bivvy bag will weigh twice what the hunka does, I know, I've got an army issue one, it's great but weighs nearly a kilo!
Why is a goretex Bivvi any better than the Alpkit Hunka?
remember, if a down bag gets wet it will a) weigh a ton, b) not keep you warm
Why is a goretex Bivvi any better than the Alpkit Hunka?
Goretex is tougher, but it weighs more. No personal experience of the hunka myself, but think I will get one when I want to save a bit of weight (Welsh Ride Thing)
plastic cups are crap you can cook in a metal one and junk a pan
Well you can, but you're far better off cooking and eating straight out of a proper pan - you don't get much in a mug. Have finally remembered what I do in Polaris etc. - I have a pot pasta snack as the first thing I eat. Then use the container to eat and drink everything else out of - I only ever use the pan for heating water. Or if you don't want a pot snack on your menu, just get one of the pots to use, as it's about the lightest durable "mug" you can get. Of course I also use alu foil Chinese take-away containers for pans - they work fine for boiling water on a stove.
The mug and the pans 250g, they are not my issue 🙂
You're right to ditch the poncho, but I'd be wanting some sort of tarp I reckon
Right Rucsac now included
Rucsac with DownBag, Sleeping clothes, Waterproofs and Bivvy is 5.18kg
The rest goes on the bike
Think I'm happy now 🙂
Tarp is pond liner weighing in at 495g and rolled into sleeping mat for no extra bulk.
Poncho gone!
Bin the pond liner, go to B+Q or similar and buy decorating polythene dustsheet if you want v. lightweight or DPC membrane if you want heavier duty.
Plan route carefully so that you can sleep in bivvibag in lee of tree, wall, boulder etc. I've never used a tarp although I've wanted one on a couple of occasions.
I think I'll look at the weather, I don't really want a tarp but if it's forecast rain all weekend then it's gonna be that bit nicer sleeping / cooking out of the rain if we've been rained on all day while riding.
It's not actually pond liner but DPC
I've flicked thru the above posts, but not really scrutinised them. One thing I always do for lightweight bivis is to use a super lightweight down sleeping bag (ME Dewline, Marmot Helium), bags which are well under 1000gms, claim around -5 degrees and pack really small. They're expensive tho. I then also use a lightweight down jacket (ME Dewline) for camp cooking etc and also sleeping in, again, pack really small. This probably ups the weight to 1500gms, but is much more versatile than a 1500gm down bag alone and will give a good winter rating.
I've used this on Helvellyn in winter and at 3000m in the alps in summer.
With a Alpkit Hunnka bivi bag and a 3/4 closed cell foam mat, you're looking at under 2000gms for sleeping kit. I have various air mattresses, but if you're serious about lightweight (over comfort), then the closed cell foams are much lighter.
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Another quick dilema for the STW Hive mind.
I have 2 mats, a old use lung power blow up on like this from scouting days.
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Or a this newer style one
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The old one packs up smaller and is lighter. (okay you have to blow it up)
Somebody suggested the balloon bed, I'd sort of written the old one off but maybe I shouldn't??
I just assumed the newer one is better
I use one of those Gelert ones, mostly because of weight and space considerations, doesn't take much to blow up either. I'd go with that. (I'd have too, it's all I've got LOL)
Are balloon beds insulated at all? I say that because whilst they do give you comfort they won't insulate as well as mats with a light weight foam core (like thermarests have) as the air can move more freely and therefore convect heat away from you into the ground.
I think I may try a very un scentific test when I get home involving items from the freezer such as a frozen lamb's leg and the kids 'in the ear' digital thermometer
balloon beds have the air pocket which will keep you warm rather than convect heat away from you. when you use layers to keep warm, lots of thin layers are better than thick layers as they'll trap more air giving more warmth.
Nick, not sure how convection would be a problem there, surely the warm air will be at the top, and the cold air at the bottom?
I think the answer is buy a Wingnut rucsac, then screw the extra grams, you won't notice them 😀
Make your self a nice light Tarp
[url= http://www.backpacking-lite.co.uk/diy/make-an-ultralight-solo-micro-tarp.html ]Some patterns on here[/url] and you can buy all the materials for not much [url= http://www.profabrics.co.uk ]here.[/url] my Micro tarp and Pegs weight less than 100g, you can make a full length one for only 200g ish
way lighter and cheaper than any of the ones you can buy I think
Balloon beds light yes but can be problematic not worth it imo
Most of the year I use a [url= http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/Mail_Order_Rab_47.html ]Rab AR Top Bag[/url] (bit to chilli at he mo though) as druid says Down under you does nothing, so these ditch it.
you do need a therma rest of some kind though I use a prolite small all year don't notice the lack of it below my knees
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28820 ]These are good for getting some bulk/weight off of you back[/url] just strap a dry bag to it
Ditch the mat and get a baloon bed, i shit you not
One of the most amusing elements of the KIMM / OMM is listening to the popping of balloon bed balloons, followed by swearing, emanating from tents at the overnight camp.
I'm sure they are light but they seem to be a bit of a faff for the amount of weight and space that they save.
Thermarest all the way for me. And if I were bivvying out I would definitely take the Army Poncho (have you got one of the new ones with loops rather than eyelets round the outside - the new ones are quite light).
If it's hosing it down you can sit under the poncho, on your thermarest, and cook and eat in relative comfort. This would be hard laying on you back, side, front in a bivvy bag or under a waterproof jacket.
Also, you can have the warmest down sleeping back in the world but if the feathers get wet it isn't going to work.
These are good for getting some bulk/weight off of you back just strap a dry bag to it
Yeah, but they don't help with your bike handling. Tried something similar on my first Polaris, and it really was a bit of a pain.
I agree with your comments on tarps though - that's just what I was thinking of when I suggested a lightweight one earlier. Thanks for the supplier link too - the place I've always used though is http://www.pennineoutdoor.co.uk/ who offer a good service.
Did I already mention I'm not a big fan of balloon beds either - have always used bubble wrap, which insulates just as well as a closed cell mat but is a lot lighter - the only downside being durability, which isn't a big problem for 2 nights.
have you got one of the new ones with loops rather than eyelets round the outside
Nope got the old one (probably WW1 or Crimean issue) with press studs and steel eyes.
not teaching you to suck eggs, but make sure you stuff that down bag in something waterproof in your rucksack, if it gets wet you'll be getting a one way ticket to hypothermiaville.
have you looked at alpkit's titanium mugs? quite large for cooking and light.
If it's hosing it down you can sit under the poncho, on your thermarest, and cook and eat in relative comfort. This would be hard laying on you back, side, front in a bivvy bag or under a waterproof jacket.
Well that's one reason I'd always take my 700g single skin tent rather than a bivi bag - if there are 2 of you it works out lighter than a Hunka! Though as we keep mentioning, a light tarp does just as good a job without the weight.
have you got one of the new ones with loops rather than eyelets round the outside
Nope got the old one (probably WW1 or Crimean issue) with press studs and steel eyes.
and with hood in the middle so that you can wear it as a cape? Ditch that one and try and get hold of one of these.
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http://www.expedoutdoors.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=10_114&products_id=101 ]British Army Basha
(other suppliers are probably available / cheaper)
Ditch that one and try and get hold of one of these.
Or get something that does the same job (at least the part of the job that does that you want one for), but weighs a lot less.
but beamers, they weigh over a kilo if i remember rightly.
Agreed. I'm basing my advice on my bivvying experience where I have been traveling far from light.
The new ones are not a kilo in weight. According to the website that I linked to above they weigh 640gms
I have a ultra light 2 man tent, just don't want to take a tent. Want to bivvy 😀
This has just arrived from the States. I've been testing it in the garden today and it can (nearly) boil 500ml of water in around 7 - 8 mins with only 20ml of meths. That works out to around around 100g of meths for 2 days cooking (breakfast + evening, 1l per day).
[url= http://www.traildesigns.com/caldera-ulc.html ]linky[/url]
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It fits inside a ti-mug and the size is specific to certain mugs, though only tall, narrow mugs work with this. Could be a consideration if you are to buys a new ti-mug.
Bring the water to the boil, let the stove go out and use a cosy to "dutch oven" cook your food in a freezer bag or the pot.
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Anyone tried a Hennessy Hammock?
The choice between a down bag and a synthetic is tricky in the UK. I went summer bivvying so I chose a down (lighter) sleeping bag (and spent a lot of money on a custom PHD Minimus). I stored that in an Alpkit dry bag – job done.
Being a bit of a chunka, the Alpkit Hunka (which is very popular) was not going to be big enough for me, and certainly not big enough for me and space for my down bag to “loft”. So I bought a Rab Assault Bivi which is very long and plenty wide enough. Being long meant I could chuck my luggage down the bottom and still have plenty of room for me, so good for security. It also has cable loops and a built in mozi net so in hot weather you can have a midge free bit of ventilation – job done.
For the sleeping mat I knew I couldn’t compromise too much. Even on 3 of the foam type ones I wake up with aching hips and sore ribs. Princess and the pee? So I decide my over night comfort was worth a little portage pain and went for a Therm-A-Rest regular (Prolite 3 – I think?). I have to say I was amazed at how comfortable it was and I was really happy that for the few extra drams I had chosen a regular length one to keep my feet on – job done.
The thermarest was wrapped loosely on the inside of a big Alpkit dry bag – so like a liner on the inside of the bag, and everything else put inside it. The down bag packed pretty small once squashed into the tiny dry bag and similarly the bivvi. This method of packing gave me one dry bag to fix to my rear rack rather than multiple “bundles” of sleeping gear – job done.
Where everything went wrong was on the last night. It lashed it down with rain for hours before stopping so I was soaked through despite any water proofs. It was still lashing it down whilst trying to set up camp. At this point nothing was job done! ? A down sleeping bag does not work if it gets soaked. At least a synthetic will still work if its wet so was the few grams saving on a down worthwhile... And without a tarp how do you get stuff out of your bags when its lashing down and setup without everything getting wet? If you manage that how do you get out of your soaked gear without cover and put something dry on or get into the bag? I ended up putting my mat down and the bivvi bag and getting in without the sleeping bag. It was cold, clammy and horrible. With my body imprint on the thermarest a big puddle of water settled into it and made me even more wet and miserable – all the time my buddies were snoring away under their tarp with some semblance of dryness and having been able to lay their stuff out without getting it wet and with chance to get out of their wet gear etc...
Would I take a tarp next time for the sake of another 600-1000g? You bet!
Would I take a synthetic sleeping bag next time so I don’t have to be precious with the down bag? You bet!
Would I take a regular length thermarest next time.,,,err. You bet! Just be careful where you put it – spikey hedges means puncture, take a repair kit.
Choose wisely when trying to be a weight weenie. You still want to enjoy your trip!
Good luck
Molds
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattnclaire/2764941369/in/set-72157606749327833/
Would I take a tarp next time for the sake of another 600-1000g? You bet!
...
Choose wisely when trying to be a weight weenie. You still want to enjoy your trip!
Indeed - if you're a weenie take a 200g tarp!
Given your comments, I'm still happy with my choice to take a 700g tent though (where I can get changed in the dry, get stuff out of my bags in the dry, roll out my down sleeping bag in the dry).
And without a tarp how do you get stuff out of your bags when its lashing down and setup without everything getting wet?
How about putting you down bag in the Hunka before setting out?
where to you get undressed and changed then?
Just get undressed and jump into the bag or at least that the advice if you read the "Book of the Bivy" by Ronald Turnbull.
Personally I take a lightweigh poncho for get undressed and doubles as a tarp.
Aye put your sleeping bag inside your bivy bag before you set out if possible.
Bivi-ing is a bit beyond me, as my tent cw pegs/poles etc (ancient Phoenix Phreerunner) only weighs 1.5kg - and will sleep 2 reasonably happily. That way I just whatever the lightest bag/mat combo I can get away with for the weather.
Surely there are equivilent tents available now?
I have one of these, 1.8kg all up on my scales, price has gone up though, I only paid 59.99 for it. Good tent, little cramped for two but ok.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/t2-ultralight-pro-3244110/
Surely there are equivilent tents available now?
That's actually a tad heavy!
http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type/Tents/Superlite_Tents/Laser_Photon_Elite_GREEN.html
(was surprised to find how light they now make those - that's as light, or possibly lighter than my single skin tent!)
True, but the Phreerunner is a 2-man tent and you don't have to worry about touching the sides, so far more usable - but then it did cost me over £250 in 1986!
This is the bit I don't get. Two person tent = a couple of kilos. Two bivvy bags and two tarps = a couple of kilos. So why the bivvy? Especially as the OP has a light two person tent.
*scratches head*
Interesting thread. I've got an Alpkit Hunka and its quite handy.
For very lightweight stuff i tend to use one of these
AMK Thermalite Bivvy - http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/product.php?product=146&catname=Essentials&prodname=Thermo-Lite®%202.0%20Bivvy
Matched with a Macpac Epic150 Liner
And a very light tent fly, a macpac one from memory.
Seems to work quite well.
usually take my Jetboil as for me it is reliable, light and doubles as cooker, cup - everything. We are sponsored by Backcountry cuisine so i just use their dehy food which is nice.
Best recent investment is this though http://www.freeload.co.nz - amazing bit of kit. I can get all my gear in a single drybag on it with next to no effect on bike handling.
supersessions9-2 - Member
not teaching you to suck eggs, but make sure you stuff that down bag in something waterproof in your rucksack, if it gets wet you'll be getting a one way ticket to hypothermiaville.
Ditto. I usually double bag my down gear to be safe. Also, 800g for fleece, tights and socks (nightwear). You MUST be able to get this down e.g.
Lowe Tech Dri Flo T shirt 130g
Smelly helly Long Johns 125g
Bridgedale Socks 80g
That's half a kilo shaved/saved.
If it's forecast foul, I'd either bivvy under cover (tarp, barn etc) or take a tent. Yes it's fun bivvying but not in the pi$$ing rain.
Oh, and don't forget your bike lock (sorry.... 🙁
TandemJeremy - MemberThis is the bit I don't get. Two person tent = a couple of kilos. Two bivvy bags and two tarps = a couple of kilos. So why the bivvy? Especially as the OP has a light two person tent.
*scratches head*
Because I don't want to take a tent.
Anyway problem now solved, bag mat & bivvy going on seat post mounted bike rack.
Tarp is onlt for if it pi$$ing down, I don't reallt want to use it. However I now have a rather s****y and very lightweight homemade one.
Everything now goes in 25litre rucsac
I'll take my camera and report back on Sunday
So its playing at boy scouts then? You are not saving any (significant) weight over taking a tent, you are potentially making yourself much less comfortable. Is it about masochism? Are you riding a SS rigid?
So its playing at boy scouts then? You are not saving any (significant) weight over taking a tent, you are potentially making yourself much less comfortable. Is it about masochism? Are you riding a SS
Nope, gonna play army. 😀 "How's that for a slice of fried gold?"
Gonna be a fully geared full sus. More about doing something a bit different than masochistic surely there's no problem with that is there? Yes I could take a tent, but I could also drive, then I could stay in hotels.
I have had enough uncomfortable wet nights in inadequate shelter to want to do so again I guess and I simply don't understand the mentality. If there was a significant weight saving then yes I see the point. Snugpak sleeping bag, lightweight bivvy bag, no cooking kit etc - get the weight down to 3 or 4 lbs.
ah well - maybe Im too old or maybe its the memories of many miserable cold nights without a decent tent
many miserable cold nights without a decent tent
"We are the sum of our experiences."
If you had spent those nights in a plush 5 star hotel you might now be a Daily Mail reading anti cycling Tory 😉
True, but the Phreerunner is a 2-man tent and you don't have to worry about touching the sides, so far more usable
In which case there's
http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type/Tents/Superlite_Tents/Laser_Green.html
Though you can get 2 in my original tent link (if people are contemplating bivvying, then I'm sure squeezing into that shouldn't be a problem) and touching the sides in those isn't any more of a problem than it is in yours.
Mine is a single skin, so you do have to worry about touching the sides - not a problem with my Macpac down bag which has a water resistant outer, so the down stayed dry even when the tent collapsed on us in gale force winds. Plenty of room for 2 though.
Tiger6791 - Member
I'll take my camera and report back on Sunday
Have fun, where are you going?
but the camera must be another 2-300g??? 😉
It's not actually weight that's my issue, it's bulk. I weight 16 stone so pulling a few extra kilos' up a hill aint gonna make much difference.
Misleading title [granted]
Looking forward to the pics! Just a tad jealous, fancy a bivi trip myself, have get one organised soon.
TJ - Just because [i]you[/i] wouldn't want to bivi, doesn't mean no-one else would.
There's something magical about making a basic shelter from a sheet and being open to the elements. (Although my wife disagrees after a night bivi-ing on the side of Tryfan).
Saying that I recently won a [url= http://www.vango.co.uk/force-ten/vitesse-200.html ]lightweight tent[/url], well lighter than my current lightweight tent, and quite fancy giving it a testing.
Picture no.1 packed and ready for the off tomorrow
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