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I used my last C2W voucher to buy an enduro frame, not even a full bike.
How dare I use a legal tax framework to buy something from an independent UK bike company. Something I probably wouldn't have bought without the tax incentive. I must be an evil tax dodger.
“How dare I use a legal tax framework to buy something from an independent UK bike company. Something I probably wouldn’t have bought without the tax incentive. I must be an evil tax dodger”
Well I’d start by keeping quiet about it, so as not to make envious people push for tighter rules. 😀
How dare I use a legal tax framework to buy something from an independent UK bike company.
Except it isn't is it? See the HMRC rules above.
Seeing as the cycle to work companies are in it for the money and the bike shops are in it for the (paultry amount) of money and the hope of repeat custom/servicing no one checks.
a legal tax framework
It's not legal. It's a requirement for the scheme that you ride to work on the bike, and you're not.
How dare I use a legal tax framework to buy something from an independent UK bike company. Something I probably wouldn’t have bought without the tax incentive. I must be an evil tax dodger.
I mean you're no Amazon or Starbucks, but as the legislation/guidance does state that "at least 50% of the cycles use must be "qualifying journeys" ie commuting to work purposes" - yes, I just looked it up - you appear to have misused a legal tax framework.
Technically speaking, as I'm now aware of a potential tax issue, I have 72 hours to report it, or I'm the one on a disciplinary charge. And we do have the powers (if we need to use them) to get your details from ST Towers to pursue you.
But if you come off your bike and the NHS hasn't got the funding to fix you, just remember that little bit of tax you've saved might have made a difference (winking emoji)
"That said, under the old stricter rules, a lot of bike shops would offer me C2W over the limit or on sale bikes"
There never was a limit in the tax legislation (nor restriction on sale bikes that I recall) the former was a consumer credit issue so employers with them were quite happy to have no restriction on cost.
If I fall off anything, it will be a bike I’ve paid for myself
But im also paying for the bike on c2w, the full value of the bike comes off my pay check. Yes you can argue that there will be a short fall in tax, but in my case I cover the cost through an hr of overtime a week that realistically I wouldn’t have done otherwise (wife asked me to justify spending more money on a new bike, so I appeased her by saying I’d work harder). So the tax man isn’t any worse off really
also, if I couldn’t get the bike on c2w I wouldn’t have paid full price for it. So not only would I be using the car instead. But a lbs would have missed on a sale!
but then again I saved 200 quid. I’m not so comfortable with folks saving multiple thousands each year, however I expect they are the exception rather than the rule
Isn't B2W, just the same as Salary Sacrifice cars...a means of getting cars/bikes into the market, supporting jobs and triggering the economy? I don't mean this to sound like trickle down economics, but genuinely, the only reason I can afford a second had EV is because someone took the depreciation hit first. I'm not sure I care that it was done via salary sacrifice. Same with many of my second hand bike bits.
It's one of those irregular verbs.
I plan my tax affairs carefully.
You avoid tax.
He evades tax.
I struggle to get very excited about potential tax evasion with c2w. I mean, sure, that's not what the rules say, but it's a pretty small amount really, and if it wasn't used for c2w, people would just avoid tax by putting it in a pension instead. Doubt it really makes any difference to the taxman in the grand scheme of things - if anything, it might help through VAT.
I used it once, on a bike I mostly use to cycle to work, bonkers me!
I enjoyed this comment above:
if they’re self employed
then they are often 'optimising their ability to minimise their taxable pay' anyway and can claim back VAT on 'business' expenses blah blah blah. I have been paye for 20+ years and there's been this one actual benefit to it, aside from lining the duck houses of MPs with silk of course.
*Much of this is said tongue in cheek, aside from the actually commuting to work by bike, when I commute it's usually by bike.
I've had three bikes through the scheme and no one has every questioned anything.
I also have a salary sacrifice car. Am I the baddies?
I also have a salary sacrifice car. Am I the baddies?
You have single handedly sent British public services back to the dark ages.
I also have a salary sacrifice car. Am I the baddies?
No because the rules are set up for this. It used to be a tax dodge then they introduced BIK tax to compensate.
It’s not legal. It’s a requirement for the scheme that you ride to work on the bike, and you’re not.
@molgrips - I didn't say anything about not riding the bike to work. How do you know whether I am or not?
I didn’t say anything about not riding the bike to work.
So do you ride the enduro bike your built up from the frame you bought on C2W to work?
There's a new fraud bill being released soon to cut down on benefits fraud, so feel less guilty about C2W, as the government are offsetting it against the money they'll make back from the regulars at wetherspoons 🥸
So I think we’ve established, whilst it isn’t checked, it’s best not to advertise your small tax wheeze, so as not to annoy the rest of us who don’t have access to such a scheme.
Also moaning about restrictions of these schemes will attract tiny violins, when talking about a bike that will never be used as the scheme intended, or as some I know, literally never get used at all.
But ultimately not something to get aggravated by.
Didn't someone here buy a canoe on it?
Not a fan of the scheme.
Penalises those at the bottom and disproportionately benefits those at the top.
Germany had something very similar now and I wasn't able to take part as I was self employed.
"No because the rules are set up for this. It used to be a tax dodge then they introduced BIK tax to compensate."
BIK on EV's obviously going from 0 to just above 0 has meant it's forced a load of EV's into the market. So like C2W it's flawed but is overall resulting in the desired behaviours. I had a one on the scheme early on and advocated it to a few at work who are still regular commuters.
technically i don't ride to work on my cycle scheme bike but i do take it to
a) ride the two miles from where i park if there's no parking space, even though I pay for one (thank you NHS)
b) i play the how far can i ride in my lunch hour game
c) i drive to work, get there early and go and do a 12-25 mile "fake commute"
does that count?
I don't see any high horses in this thread, just tiny Shetland style ponies.
““I don’t support it because I don’t get to use it” is honest, but not a particularly compelling argument.”
I do find myself slightly envious at times, but I’m over it, I commute for free. So money saved can go towards shiny things.
Although said shiny things will be a bit more expensive from some shops as the shops have to pay for the admin of the schemes that others use for their cheap bikes, as I understand it.
But would those shops still exist without the scheme(s)?
Shetland ponies are almost singularly inappropriate for the commute and should never have been eligible for the Horse to Work scheme.
Wow, this turned out strange. A simple "No, no-one checks and everyone accepts it was a good idea which has just become a nice tax perk for the rich" would have sufficed.
Anyway, I haven't bothered in all the years it has been running so probably won't bother now although some new tools might be handy...
Self employed already dodge paying much of the tax that I have no option on. So a B2Wbike is a little bit of rebalancing the unfair bias of the tax system against middle earning employees.
And the TT bike I got on B2W means I can get to the office quite a bit faster than on the Brompton, therefore being able to do even more work in the time available. As one of what seems to only 3 people in the country making a positive difference to the country's trade balance, I should really be given the thing for free.
but genuinely, the only reason I can afford a second had EV is because someone took the depreciation hit first. I’m not sure I care that it was done via salary sacrifice.
its interesting- that is certainly the high level economics of it… BUT I think often the tax breaks/ grants/ subsidies introduced by well meaning governments actually result in price inflation, hurting everyone except those who set up the admin schemes! We don’t have salary sacrifice for EVs so I was free to shop the entire market. I know someone in the NHS who does get the benefit but had a much restricted choice of deals… from what I could see he was paying about 20% over, which is still attractive if you get 40% tax break but perhaps not quite what the architects had in mind!
bike 2 work is similar - less choice, less competition, “but you are saving money still”…
Self employed already dodge paying much of the tax that I have no option on.
Personally, I don't 'dodge' anything - all my accounts and transactions are electronic.
But if there's a scheme in place that goes some way to compensate for the lack of paid holidays, sick pay, company pension etc, I'm possibly going to use it....
*Gets up at 4am to go and do some self employed stuff and waits for thread to spiral off into an abyss
What really grips my shit is that if your employer says no we aren't doing it you are not doing it. Should be available to all.
compensate for the lack of paid holidays, sick pay, company pension etc,
You should charge the appropriate fees to your customers to compensate for those things, not evade tax. And if you can't charge enough, then either move jobs or suck it up . You can't justify it that way, sorry. Request denied.
Also, you're not getting any sympathy when you're starting threads about buying expensive new cars. Don't make out how hard done by you are. I thought the youth of today were meant to be the entitled ones?
You should charge the appropriate fees to your customers to compensate for those things, not evade tax. And if you can’t charge enough, then either move jobs or suck it up . You can’t justify it that way, sorry. Request denied.
Also, you’re not getting any sympathy when you’re starting threads about buying expensive new cars. Don’t make out how hard done by you are. I thought the youth of today were meant to be the entitled ones?
Here he is, like the neighbours Jack Russell snapping round my ankles.
I was neither asking for sympathy, not expecting any on the socialist workers forum.
I missed the bit where I was advocating tax evasion too...
Grinds my gears when people piss and moan about people taking advantage of a scenario made available to them, just because they can't. Probably sanctimoniously too, because they would too if they could
Ah, a 'tHe sElf eMpLoyEd pAy nO tAx' thread - it's been a while 😉
HMRC are the single largest benefactor of my company being in business. They receive more than any single other entity - including me and my co-owner.
I do still get to use a Bike to Work scheme though as a 'perk' of being an employee on the books. Which means that I get taxed via PAYE with NI deductions taken off just like everybody else. And twice a year via my Self Assessment.
I pay tax. All of our employees pay tax. Our company pays a quarterly VAT bill, monthly P32 and annual corporation tax bills. But please, don't let that stop the same tedious bleating about someone being able to save a few quid on a new bike.
To answer the original question - not in our experience. We've had a few staff buying bikes via various schemes (I don't mind signing up for whatever scheme the bike shop they want to use works with) and generally the 'Scheme' just deals with everything.
Green Commute Initiative is the best one I've found so far - by far the easiest to deal with, lowest fees for the bike shops and flexible repayment terms. If it's an option for you, it's definitely the one I'd recommend.
Lets not forget that all of these sacrifices impact pension contributions and can end up being way more costly over time.
If you get a new bike every few years then your average earnings is coming down and so will your pension contributions. Could potentially add up to hundreds a month when you are old and could do with the cash.
But please, don’t let that stop the same tedious bleating about someone being able to save a few quid on a new bike.
I haven't seen that happen in this thread. It's brilliant that people start cycling and save a bit of money as a reward. But again, the way the idea has been implemented is unfair, as patiently explained by several posters.
As for paying tax, including Corporation Tax, you might not be the only one, incredibly enough. But not everyone feels the need to share that irrelevant piece of information about themsleves.