[Closed] Big tree/neighbour potential issue

We've recently had a 50ft+ sycamore felled and removed. Contributions were had from four sets of neighbours at the back that were affected by it. Some were worried about roots, some about the light blocking and one said her daughter wouldn't sleep in her bedroom if it was windy as she feared it was going to fall down!

But it sounds like you think your neighbours are tight arses.

IME - tree surgeons are difficult to get commitment from.

Good luck.

Aren't you Stroud way Derek? Who did you use (and if I can be cheeky, how much was it)?

She was quite clear about calling it ‘our’ tree a couple of times.

If you don’t want to do anything and she is being like that, you should remind her that she can have any parts overhanging her garden trimmed and add she doesn’t need to return the cuttings just dispose of herself.

If any of my neighbours had a tree like that I would say “if you are thinking of getting the tree cut back whilst doing the garden work then I would be happy to contribute”

Plant (ahem) that thought!

She was quite clear about calling it ‘our’ tree a couple of times.

If the base of the tree is in your garden then she'd be right.

I think that's what it'll come to. I'll get someone in to look at it, cos that's probably sensible anyway, if any work needed is only 'cosmetic' then I think the offer to the neighbours will be "we're happy with how it is, but if you want the work done then this is how much it'll cost and, in the spirit of neighbourliness, we'll go halves".

If they don't want to pay, we're happy with leaving it as it is. However, at what point does a 'slightly narky conversation about a tree' become a 'neighbour dispute to be declared on a house sale'?

If the base of the tree is in your garden then she’d be right.

Oh, absolutely, but I think she was passively-aggressively making the point that it's up to us to sort it any issue with it on their side of the fence.

The tree is ultimately your responsibility, but you don't have an obligation to sort it out unless it is causing a proper nuisance to your neighbour - think roots/foundations, or dangerous branches overhanging their property.

My approach would probably be to get the tree surgeon over, price up various options, get a view on the health of the tree (is it likely to keel over and wreck someone's house?)

Then tell the neighbour that you'd love to get the crown reduced, but can't quite afford it right now, maybe in a couple of years. Obviously if she would like it done sooner she's welcome to chip in.

However, at what point does a ‘slightly narky conversation about a tree’ become a ‘neighbour dispute to be declared on a house sale’?

Not at this point, certainly. If she declares it dangerous and starts sending solicitors' letters, maybe then.

If it was a tree in my garden, I wouldn’t dream of expecting a neighbour to contribute.

If it was a tree in my neighbours garden, I wouldn't dream of expecting them to alter it without making a contribution.

Of course it's your tree and your responsibility. The only question is whether the nuisance it's causing is sufficient that you have an obligation to fix it. Which is hard to tell from a few words on a forum.

Move your fence to make it her tree instead.

If I was in a tree in my neighbours garden, I wouldn't dream of expecting them to make a contribution to my new binoculars.

If I was in a tree in my neighbours garden, I wouldn’t dream of expecting them to make a contribution to my new binoculars.

What about your ladder?

What about your ladder?

Panthers don't need ladders. Just night vision goggles.

If it's not too exorbitant I'd just cough up. You don't want to spend years being po-faced with neighbours but you could make a light hearted comment like 'any contributions would be gratefully received.' Keep the moral high ground.

what branch .... id would be in my stove by now if it was overhanging my garden so think your self lucky shes asked you 😀

Have I got déjà vu or have we had this exact discussion before, where someone was flabbergasted that the neighbour was calling it "your" tree just because it was in the OP's garden. Iirc, in that case the OP was saying it wasn't his tree because he hadn't planted it, the previous owners of the house had!

If it was me as the tree owner I think I'd accept that it was my responsibility to make sure it doesn't cause a problem for the neighbours (and if it's getting so close that it could either damage the house or needs to be declared on the insurance then that's "a problem") and pay to get my tree cut back. If the neighbour offered some money then great, if take it, but wouldn't expect it.

Likewise, if I was the person whose house was being overshadowed by a neighbours tree I'd rather they sorted it themselves but if I put some money towards it to get the job done then that might be worth it.

I put a significant value on having neighbours who i get on with, and try to avoid falling out where possible, as it's not worth the stress. I'd be getting a quote, and if feasible, getting it done, but nicely point out if they'd like to make a contribution that would be great.

We recently had 7 huge leylandii (with an interwoven wire fence) felled, and Ilreplaced them with a not very cheap fence. We stomached the cost for the fence, as even though it wasn't ours, it has been our trees (which we didn't plant 😉 :D) that had compromised the original fence. You could argue that if the landowner had pruned the stuff on their side it wouldn't have been an issue, but the financial cost was way cheaper than the emotional cost of an ongoing disagreement!

Panthers don’t need ladders. Just night vision goggles.

😁

From the comfort of your lair 🔭

It is my tree, I know it's my tree.

I think this falls into two camps:

1) If the neighbours issue is 'problem', i.e. it's likely to cause damage to their property, then it's probably my problem too, and I probably need to cough up to get any work done. However, if the issue were reversed, I'd be offering to contribute as it was 'our' (i.e. the two neighbours) problem

2) If the neighbours issue is 'nuisance', i.e. it's dropping leaves that they don't like or similar, then I'll get a quote, but if it's more than, I dunno, a couple of hundred quid, I'll only do any work if they're prepared to contribute.

To be clear, this tree is old, I've seen it on a map from the 1860s, so it was very much there, and probably not that much different in size to what it is now, when they bought their house in the, I'm guessing, mid-1980s.

I'm confused. You said that she referred to it repeatedly as "our" tree. So that means that she thinks that it's either completely owned by her or jointly owned between the two of you, so why would she be reluctant to contribute?

Or did you mean "our" in the sense that she was saying "your" - in which case, why didn't you just write that?

From the IHN’s post I did not infer anything dangerous about the tree.

If the tree is a problem why not ask directly rather than being passive aggressive and making implications - that will equally put peoples back up, it takes 2 to tango.

Saying would you be able to get your tree cut back because x,y,z. I do not feel qualified to cut it back myself in case I make the tree unsafe. I would rather you as the owner employ a professional. I am happy to contribute/ I am unable to contribute/ or leave the cost unspoken.

With a large tree negotiation is the key as some people like and some do not but as others have said a harmonious neighbourhood is a happy one.

@IHN

No - I'm in Greater Manchester.

On cost - there's not much difference in cost between full removal and crown reduction.

Felling and removal of the sycamore cost £1k.

It is my tree, I know it’s my tree.

To be clear, this tree is old, I’ve seen it on a map from the 1860s, so it was very much there, and probably not that much different in size to what it is now, when they bought their house in the, I’m guessing, mid-1980s.

This logic is sound 👆

The only slightly potentially complicating factor is if it is suffering from Chalara. That would mean there is an increased risk in it dying and potentially keeling over - but that typically takes several years from initial infection, if at all.

If it's that age check with the councilfor a tpo, if it's just shading or leaves she's worried about invite her to crack on with bit on her side of the fence. If she's worried about stability you'll need the opinion of an arborist.

£1k to remove a sycamore? How tall was it?! I had 2 Leylandis removed which were higher than my 2 story house and 3 smaller ones ~10ft for £300. Didn't ask neighbours to contribute as were on my land and more in danger of damaging my garage than their building.

We paid (IIRC) £350 for our sycamore (horrible trees BTW) cutting down and the trunk/boughs cutting into stove sized pieces (I still had to split into logs).

They burn okay on a stove if well seasoned.

I’m confused. You said that she referred to it repeatedly as “our” tree. So that means that she thinks that it’s either completely owned by her or jointly owned between the two of you, so why would she be reluctant to contribute?
Or did you mean “our” in the sense that she was saying “your” – in which case, why didn’t you just write that?

Sorry, you're right, that's not clear - she referred to it as "your tree", i.e. not hers.

@dlr - approx. 55 ft. with a wide crown.

The only slightly potentially complicating factor is if it is suffering from Chalara. That would mean there is an increased risk in it dying and potentially keeling over – but that typically takes several years from initial infection, if at all.

I'm happy that would be in the 'entirely my problem' camp.

If it’s that age check with the councilfor a tpo, if it’s just shading or leaves she’s worried about invite her to crack on with bit on her side of the fence. If she’s worried about stability you’ll need the opinion of an arborist.

No TPO (just double checked on council website). The fella doing the patio knows a tree surgeon, so I'll get him round to have a look.

The fella doing the patio knows a tree surgeon, so I’ll get him round to have a look.

Ask to take sight of his insurance and accreditation documents before hiring anybody.

Or did you mean “our” in the sense that she was saying “your” – in which case, why didn’t you just write that?

The OP...

She was quite clear about calling it ‘our’ tree a couple of times.

Seems pretty clear to me. If she said it was her tree, the OP would have said She was quite clear about calling it ‘her’ tree a couple of times.

Seems pretty clear to me. If she said it was her tree, the OP would have said She was quite clear about calling it ‘her’ tree a couple of times.

Unless she was implying joint ownership of the tree which is on the boundary, which would make it "ours"

Woah there, using logic to challenge pedantry isn't in the spirit of STW

Woah there, using logic to challenge pedantry isn’t in the spirit of STW

Wasn't logic.

Was meta-pedantry.

I am looking at buying a house, a lovely house has a big tree blocking the view and loads of light. The base is in a neighbours garden so I assume the worst, they won't cut it down. I am not viewing the house as it would drive me mad. So just do the work and ask for a contribution from those benefiting.

As someone suffering subsidence caused by a neighbours tree I'd urge/plead with any one that has a tree in their garden to be aware of your responsibility and to maintain it. I'm sure you wouldn't want to knowingly cause a nuisance or damage, but big trees can, a lot. Get it looked at, please. If its not about to damage a house the is still nuisance from light and leaf drop to consider. As for subsidence, if the crown is getting close to houses then that might be an issue, depends on the soil though really. A rough guide, a big tree, depending on species, could cause soil desiccation and shrinkage of a clay soil out about as far as it is tall.

As for who pays, you own it, you should have been aware of your responsibilities when buying it (the house and the tree), so you should be paying. Its probably not unreasonable to ask for a contribution from neighbours if they want more work done than you feel is needed, but handling that is up to you and how you get on, and how much you care about them. Ultimately though, its your responsibility. Please be nice, don't let it damage your neighbours houses, that gets very stressful.

Fwiw I there's a distance for nuisance as far as the tree goes. If I recall correctly it's 3m, anything closer than that is a legal nuisance, anything else it's not.

If you want it thinned /reduced/pollarded/crowned etc, go for it, maybe they'll put hands in pockets, maybe they won't but think of it as a bonus if they do.

If you're not otherwise interested in getting the work done, I'd (politely) explain I wasn't planning on it but that if they want to get it done you'd be happy for them to hire a tree surgeon to come and quote them for the work and then discuss it.

Don't be difficult but put their dislike back on their plate where it belongs.

If it's within 3m of the house tell them you'll get the tree inspected (which you should be doing now and again for insurance anyway) and quoted to cut back to 3m (done at your cost) .anything more than that you're happy to discuss with them including the cost.

the is still nuisance from light and leaf drop to consider

This might be annoying but it very definitely doesn't constitute a nuisance (it's a defined term), it's just a part of living with a tree.

As for subsidence, any damage* to property is the owner of the tree's problem unless they are doing as they're required in terms of maintenance.

if the big tree causing your subsidence has a TPO you're into difficult grounds e. g. we're getting heave from a 30m tree [ours] with a TPO, and firmly the (legally defensible according to the solicitor our insurance recommended) standpoint of the council is its an engineering problem not a tree problem because the tree has a TPO so roots underneath the house is an issue of (old) foundations, so dig those out and leave the tree be.

If it's soil shrinkage you're having issues with I'm not sure how that will play as far as it being the tree owners fault, I'd be interested to know (it might give me another line of approach to my particular problem, though I doubt it)

*things like bird faeces, leaf drop etc don't count, its limited to preventable damage from the fabric of the tree.

Other than cost / apathy do you have any compelling reason not to crop it back? Unless you've got a couple of acres on the go it sounds like it needs downsizing a bit, neighbours or no.

If I were your neighbour I think my train of thought would be "how much bigger is he planning on letting that thing get?"

IF your house/garden is in a conservation area then normally the tree would be protected by default, similar to a TPO, which is then a lot more involved in terms of permissions.

For what its worth I had a self seeded ash felled from my back garden about 4 year back, it was about 6m tall and it cost me about 350£ including chipping and taking away and grinding stump down.

If you're ever going to talk to council about an extension or similar and you don't particularly want the tree better to take it down before they come and look at your land. You can always then plant new landscaping after.

also to add when the tree was gone I was suprised at how much daylight it had been blocking from the garden- it didnt feel like it was much!

Dangeourbrain, you've a complex problem, tpo must make things more troublesome. Looks like you need to get your insurers to underpin, but they will try everything to avoid that. Best of luck.

My issue is with a neighbour's tree, his tree roots trespass and cause a nuisance, the soil desication and subsequent subsidence damage.

Re leaf drop and light, no I didn't mean to use nuisance in a legal manner.