[Closed] Being a fatty now socially acceptable

priorities innit, got a patient that i've helped lose over 3 stone and the biggest battle is trying tog et him to see that planning meals and buying healthy is cheaper than buying junk on a day-to-day basis... he was amazed when i took him shopping and did a weeks shopping for 24quid, but unless someone takes him shopping he'll stand there in the supermarkets and chose the 20value sausages for 2quid because in his head thats better value than 2quids worth of veg. unfortunately he'll always prioritise spending on computer games as he gets more enjoyment from them than he does eating vegetables 🙁 doesnt help that the supermarket cakes are discounted to 14p at the end of the day either for his will power!

I'm fat, and I disgust myself.

The good news, i've lost loads of weight and will continue to do so. I can't wait to be 'normal'

The best news, with (perceived?) low standards that follow from years of being a fattie and being shunned by skinny girls, I still find fat chicks hot.

The world is becoming my oyster.

I have 2 friends with PCOS

If they haven't got beards they should be happy enough.

I'm fat, and I disgust myself.

The good news, i've lost loads of weight and will continue to do so. I can't wait to be 'normal'

The best news, with (perceived?) low standards that follow from years of being a fattie and being shunned by skinny girls, I still find fat chicks hot.

The world is becoming my oyster.

8)

What about people who have conditions like PCOS, underactive thyroid, mobility issues etc which make it harder for them to lose weight?

Mrs runs Diabetes clinics. She is constantly told [i]"You don't know what it's like. You're skinny. I trrrrry to lose weight, but the diabetes makes me fat even though I just eat lettuce."[/i]

What her patients fail to realise is that she also has diabetes.

No denying that some health conditions may make it easier to gain weight and harder to lose it. But they don't make you gain weight by themselves. That's the pies.

unfortunately he'll always prioritise spending on computer games as he gets more enjoyment from them than he does eating vegetables

He's got a point though.:D
Reminds me of that outnumbered sketch when they're trying to save money.

Karen: "I know how we can save money! By not buying broccoli!"

Dad: "Yes, but the thing is, Karen – broccoli isn't really expensive."

Karen: "Yes, but we don't need it … "

Healthy food IS NOT EXPENSIVE.

'kin too true there brother

[img] [/img]

Does that count as two of your 5-a-day?

Healthy food IS NOT EXPENSIVE.

'kin too true there brother

Christ, they went out in December. I'd want more than 50% off....

i want to set up a business running activity based groups for people suffering from mental health problems, offering personal training tailored to both the physical and mental health needs of the client... whenever i daydream about this i focus on the 'where can i recruit some chilled personal trainers who would be good with mental health' and i forget the 'i need to include dietary advice in this thing too'

Phil - I think I'm pretty good with mentalists. Where do I apply?

'where can i recruit some chilled personal trainers who would be good with mental health'

hmm, not sure, but I can recommend a forum where you certainly shouldn't look for them.....

Christ, they went out in December. I'd want more than 50% off....

Next December, that's the beauty of irradiating stuff, they're veggie too - must be well healthy

lol, they've got to be chilled and patient type people, the mental health side i can teach 🙂

simple business model really, i take the referrals, meet and assess them, match them with a trainer, then meet again to develop a training, dietry and care-plan. then off they go with the trainer to get healthy in as many ways possible. then in addition we could run group stuff for homes, CMHTs etc. all reviewed regularly to ensure the plans are updated to match the clients changing needs 🙂 its a model thats neither geographically limited or that would rely on a a minimum turn-over to work as the trainers could work on an agency type basis....

service users now have this whole personal budget thing and that would give them the opportunity of chosing to do it and allocating the money towards it if they found it a positive thing, so there'd be two sources of referrals, self and those made by professionals who think i'm awesome lol.

not that i've thought about this for a while now!

Bananas + Radiation =

[img] [/img]

????

patient type people

Get the patients to teach the patients... genius.

Where do I apply?

Well done on losing the weight, but it does make me wonder how such a paragon of virtue managed to get 10 stone overweight without noticing.

It's not that I didn't notice it's just I was probably past the point of caring and in that vicious cycle of eating to be happy etc. Plus a lot of it was put on in year 1 of uni where we were pretty much drinking every night and eating loads of shit food. To be honest I don't really know how I let myself get that revolting. One day I decided I'd had enough and sorted my life out.

Solo - Member

"The facts are when I started training in 1993, 10% of the UK was obese and now 25% are. We are absolutely not moving the goalposts - we are getting fatter," she says.

Are we up to 25% now ?.

Only 25% of me is obese. The middle 25%. The rest is fine.

What about people who have conditions like PCOS, underactive thyroid, mobility issues etc which make it harder for them to lose weight?

I have 2 friends with PCOS - one who is very conscious of managing her weight, and tries very hard to eat well and stay active, and one who doesn't try. But both of them are overweight, though the friend who makes an effort is a stone or so lighter, she is still what may be classed as "fat" or at least "chubby".

I would argue though that she is healthier than the friend who doesn't bother to eat healthy or exercise. She aint ever gonna be a skinny minnie, but I don't think she should be made to feel that she isn't acceptable because of that.

None of that changes anything. Thyroid issues can be medically fixed, the rest where they can't be fixed can be managed, as your less fat friend has shown. There's a healthy range, within that healthy range I see no issues even with a target being an athletic person. Outside that range it's just plain unhealthy. Sure people with issues need to do more to stay closer to the goal, life's unfair, tough.

"The facts are when I started training in 1993, 10% of the UK was obese and now 25% are. We are absolutely not moving the goalposts - we are getting fatter," she says.

I blame immigration, I'm calling the Home Office right now to speak to that nice lady who told the border control to turn a blind eye for a while.

There's a healthy range, within that healthy range I see no issues even with a target being an athletic person. Outside that range it's just plain unhealthy.

What's the range; how's it measured?

What's the range; how's it measured?

Well, without wanting to jump in here, I'd [i]imagine[/i] that a healthy weight range may well be erm, the range in which a person's weight doesn't cause health issues?
And the measure would be whether there are any health issues?

[i]My view on this is simple: tax cr** food and use revenue to subsidise fruit and veg[/i]

Well, they could make a start by charging VAT on things like, pies, pasties, sausage rolls. I'm sure that'd be perfectly acceptable.

Oh...

The easiest way is with BMI, with between 18 and 25 being healthy. There are exceptions to this, but it works at a population level and is a good indicator for most people.

*awaits mention of England rugby team or the GB rowing squad*

Well, without wanting to jump in here, I'd imagine that a healthy weight range may well be erm, the range in which a person's weight doesn't cause health issues?
And the measure would be whether there are any health issues?

*awaits mention of England rugby team or the GB rowing squad*

Saw this in [s]Closet Homosexual Monthly[/s] Men's Health...

[img] [/img]
-- http://news.menshealth.com/this-pic-instant-exercise-motivation/2012/01/27/

The white bits are fat.

I know which steak I'd rather have.

Cheap convenience food is generally made tasy by adding lots of sugar, salt and fat.

I know which steak I'd rather have.

Donk, you've just made me really hungry 😯

I'm not sure i'd ever want a cross section of my bollocks to be put on the internet.

mmm steak.

Anyway,

Of course the post-war development of cheap luxuries has been a very
fortunate thing for our rulers. It is quite likely that fish-and-chips,
art-silk stockings, tinned salmon, cut-price chocolate (five two-ounce bars
for sixpence), the movies, the radio, strong tea, and the Football Pools
have between them averted revolution. Therefore we are some-times told that
the whole thing is an astute manoeuvre by the governing class--a sort of
'bread and circuses' business--to hold the unemployed down

I'm glad someone has digitalified it. Nothing really changes.

[url= http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/4.html ]Listen up kids[/url]

Or any rugby team or many track and/or field athletes, swimmers, fighters, aussie rules players, baseball players etc etc. BMI is toss.
A doctor could *probably* tell by looking whether someone is fat and as a doctor should be entitled to tell someone to sort their shit out. If we're getting scientific though, a bodyfat measurement would be the only real way to do it.

Indeed, it's hard to cover the range of potential athletic types with a number that is simply a division of height and weight. That's like comparing car performance by looking at engine size - utterly pointless. But BMI is an I, not a measurement. There's body fat percentage measurements that accurately cover this and as said in very sensible form - any body fat percentage that causes or is likely to cause increases in health issues should be outside the target range.

(BTW I'm not coming at this as an athlete or a slim toned person, I'm just able to accept that I'm not ideal and there should be few excuses to being outside ideal ranges).

On the spaghetti bolognese bit, I recall Heston Blumenthal made his "perfect spag bol" and gave it to people in the UK who wanted it more tomato-y and on top of the pasta rather than tossed with it. He said that what people WANT from a spag bolognese is not a traditional one but the one they grew up eating.

to be fair a lot of proper cooked food is made tastier by adding salf fat and sugar

I use loads. Really nice towards the end of a stew type thing to mix a little butter in. Gives it a nice shine and richness. That said, I'd rather eat something I cook at home with quality ingredients even if it is fatty than a micro meal as I bet for the same portion it'd be fattier and saltier.

The clues are there; poor diet + lack of exercise = short life.

Whilst I understand what you are getting at; it is not always the case.

EDIT

Is it?

Snack:
Apple 25p, mars bar 55p

Dinner:
Microwave spag bol £2.50 (35g of fat!), or any takeaway is goin to be £6+ and many times worse than that.

Home made spag bol
200g mince (so at least double the ready meal, ~10% fat) £5/kg, £1
Value Pasta 30p/packet ~ 7p portion
Tin of tomatoes 33p
assorted herbs, glug of red wine, salt/stock, chilli - 30p?
total = £1.70

How much cheeper does it need to be?

^^^ this - unhealthy food is less costly in effort not in monitory terms.

But BMI is an I, not a measurement.

True, but if it doesn't then work why use it?

Because it's an easy I that suggests more M may be needed? Again, with the car analogy, if coolant is going missing you need to do more checks. You don't do a head-gasket check and strip/rebuilt the engine every time it has a service, you look for key indicators.

I know that guys have been turned away from the armed services for being out of range according to the BMI despite running sub 8-minute BFTs (1.5 miles). That's the trouble with blunt tools like this; the medical profession throw their weight(!) behind it and it starts being taken literally and applied across the board.

True, but none of that changes the point? If other people take the I and use it out of context or without qualification then that's their problem to deal with, not the fault of the indicator.

[i]Similar to the anchient Greeks[/i]

Did someone mention the G[b]h[/b]reeks ?...

[img] [/img]

not the fault of the indicator.

Grow your own FFS, you can even do it indoors if you have no garden. We get our veg from the local farm shop every week, it costs us less than £15 for a weeks worth of fresh salad, fruit, veg etc. If you have no farmshop then instead of avoiding the fruit and veg isles in the supermarket and heading straight for the easy options, take a look at the offers. There's always stuff on offer, or buy the stuff thats short on date and erm, maybe go shopping more than once a week?!?

What you are talking about is effectively totally transforming someone who doesn't think much about anything to someone who does. A laudable aim but rather difficult to do.

For 90% of the population, BMI would give a perfectly good indicator of whether or not they were in the overweight category. But so would a mirror.

It can be deceptive though: I remember seeing mention of a recent study that found 40% of people in the normal BMI range actually had unhealthy levels of visceral fat around their organs.

People are very good at deceiving themselves though: "Yes I could lose a stone or two, but I'm not exactly a biffer" usually means "I am at least three stone overweight".

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/animals/animals-headlines/british-squirrels-fattest-in-europe-20071025493 ]Its not just us....[/url]

[i]mrjmt - Member
Its not just us....

[/i]

Err, hang on.
You're trying to tell me that I'm not a Squirrel ?.
Posting on [b]S[/b]quirrel[b]T[/b]ree[b]W[/b]orld.com ??.

😯

NUTS !

What about people who have conditions like PCOS, underactive thyroid

Thyroid issues can be medically fixed

If only it were that simple! I'm not going to rant again about the disgraceful lack of treatment that some thyroid patients receive and how I've had to go outside of the NHS because of wanting a reasonable quality of life. More in this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/post-viral-fatigue

If anyone needs more info on thyroid disorders, try here:

http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/index.html

If only it were that simple! I'm not going to rant again about the disgraceful lack of treatment that some thyroid patients receive and how I've had to go outside of the NHS because of wanting a reasonable quality of life.

Thyroid conditions rarely get fixed, they get managed, and it's difficult to get dosage right. The NHS often thinks it's a case of "here's some thyroxine, off you go" but it's not that easy. My stepmum had her thyroid out because of cancer, the NHS were great at treating the cancer but the aftercare and management of her thyroid hormones were absolutely diabolical.

As a few people have pointed out BMI isn't one size fits all, you can be within healthy weight range and be like me, someone who stores fat primarily round the stomach area, therefore being at greater risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes. Diet and exercise plans need to be tailored to an individual's body shape and existing health conditions, it's not enough to say "eat less, move more".

My sister has a thyroid problem, all the comments on here about it are from / regarding women.

Is this just a condition that affects women?

NHS were great at treating the cancer but the aftercare and management of her thyroid hormones were absolutely diabolical.

That describes a lot of their treatment of cancer-treatment side effects. They "forgot" to tell my mum the side effect of her treatment in case she'd chose to not have the treatment (the side effect of THAT being death) and so her hip replacements came as a bit of a surprise.

CInamon girl is like a younger Joanna Lumley on a bike right? Only she is more bothered about fighting for thyroid patients then Gurkha's

*swoon*

Doesn't Ms Lumley like them in her Big Mac either then?

If only it were that simple!

But you've proved my point, they can be fixed. It's not my responsibility to decide that if it's a bit hard to get the NHS to listen then you're no longer responsible for your own weight. If you're aware you get fat easily because of this, don't eat so much or shift your diet habits to suit your condition?

Well, I felt worse on thyroxine and as long as the NHS relies on one blood test whilst completely ignoring symptoms, then things won't change. It's a complex area.

Yes, more women are affected but there are some blokes on here that have thyroid disorders.

Lol at alex222. 😀 This Forum is terrific for all sorts of stuff - you post up a question and get loads of good answers. Thanks to STWers for suggesting where to get alternative treatment. 8)

Doesn't the fact that there are medical conditions that affect weight kind of disprove the "eat less, move more" thinking?*

*I am [b]N[/b]ot [b]A[/b] [b]D[/b]octor

Doesn't the fact that there are medical conditions that affect weight kind of disprove the "eat less, move more" thinking?*

*I am Not A Doctor

Only if the majority of fatties had a medical condition.

Doesn't the fact that there are medical conditions that affect weight kind of disprove the "eat less, move more" thinking?*

I think most medical conditions that affect weight affect metabolic rate or absorbtion of certain compounds, which just means you need to adjust the quantity and composition of your intake to ensure the calorie balance while being mindful of nutrition? (clearly I'm not suggesting that treats the original disease, just that that's how you don't get fat).

Here's a list of signs and symptoms and, for balance, I have around 20 of them:

http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_the_thyroid/hypothyroidism_signs_symptoms.html

I've gone from a size 10 to size 18 in 3 years - my eating habits haven't changed, reasonably healthy diet, ride 2 or 3 times a week. But my body is working very slowly and that includes mental capacity.

Only if the majority of fatties had a medical condition

They do.... their mouth is bigger than their @rsehole... 😛

over the last 3 years I have lost 4 stone, didn't change my diet (though i am now naturally eating a lot less) simply exercised - basically got on my bike.

Biggest problem I have now is I can't get clothes to fit me, my genetic heritage has bestowed me with a narrow waist (28") and I have found it again 😀 10/15 years ago this wasn't a problem, today I have to really hunt round the shops to find jeans and trousers to fit me. This to me is a real sign that the population is getting fatter, the fasion industry is catering to this trend.

c_g I too could fit about 20 of those, combined with a super-low RHR and a few others I would also suspect the same thing but the problem is that just about everyone has a number of those symptoms and so you'd have to get a GP to check. I appreciate that it might be difficult, I guarantee that if I approached my doc with the "I might have hypothyroidism" argument he'd tell me to GTF and get exercising as I'm fairly sure that 90% of the time people who approach with such symptoms are, like me, just too lazy to their arse into gear.

[i]Doesn't the fact that there are medical conditions that affect weight kind of disprove the "eat less, move more" thinking[/i]

Thats a good place to start.

Recognizing that weight gain is regulated by different, interacting internal, body processess, which are not directly effcted by how much you wave your arms and legs about.

c_g: Is Thyroid UK the one run by discredited doctors?

Diet and exercise plans need to be tailored to an individual's body shape and existing health conditions, it's not enough to say "eat less, move more".

c_g I too could fit about 20 of those

Fair point coffeeking. As an example, just from looking at me, one can see I have no eyebrows, very few eyelashes, noticeably less hair on one side of my head, tongue is swollen and scalloped, hands are cold. Quite scary really. 😯

c_g: Is Thyroid UK the one run by discredited doctors?

Nope, it was started by a lady who received poor treatment from the NHS. I suspect you may be referring to one of their medical advisors - a doctor who argued that thyroid sufferers were not being treated correctly. He had to 'resign', he also has a thyroid disorder.

Edit: I could of course just accept the treatment offered together with anti-depressants when I'm not even depressed! But I'm lucky enough to have some gorgeous bikes that I want to ride hence my research into alternative treatments.

Believe me, it's bloomin' hard riding on your own when you've been used to having lots of riding buddies as well as organising Forum Rides at Swinley etc. I would love my life to be back how it was. 🙁

Most overweight people do not have a medical condition. But it is often the case that possible underlying medical conditions are underinvestigated, such as underactive thyroid, food allergies/intolerances, hormonal conditions such as PCOS or reactions to contraceptive hormones, coeliac disease....

Mrs FD quite often as to tell people that they can not operate on them because the are too fat, or that they are likely to get more complications because they are too fat.

Of course she can not directly tell them they are fat, but you can not help but think if they could tell them directly that they might be more enclined to do some thing about it.

Nope, it was started by a lady who received poor treatment from the NHS

Okay, not seeking to criticise, but I know the missus has certainly had issues with patients citing treatments from a group of disbarred doctors, who have published some discredited "papers" on the internet. Sounds like it might be a different group though.

Mrs FD quite often as to tell people that they can not operate on them because the are too fat, or that they are likely to get more complications because they are too fat.

Just to clarify, Mrs FD is a medical professional, right?

*rubs eyes*

*squints*

*pinches self*

{yep, he's back}

Most overweight people do not have a medical condition

I'm big boned. It's a curse.

I'm big boned. It's a curse.

I'm also big bonered...

You should try using slendertone on that.

[i]I'm big boned. It's a curse. [/i]
You being the top pic.

[img] [/img]

Don't look that big to me.

Now, if you had a big....

Then as someone who knows, let me tell ya, that really can be a curse.
😉

Now, if you had a big...

Nose?

[i]Nose?[/i]

Well, in your case, it couldn't be anything else, could it.
smarty pants.

😉

Both the 40 & 70 year old tri-ephalumps left legs look like a cross section of Homer Simpson's head

That's what happens to you over time if you ride a bike in Speedos and draw numbers on your arms

please don't read this the wrong way this is a genuine question and not intended to belittle anyone....

RE: medial conditions that affect metabolism and the way in which your body decides to use/store/convert your food intake....presumably the following still holds true:

fuel in > fuel burnt = weight gain
fuel burnt > fuel in = weight loss

or do they affect your body in such a way that its default is to convert and store food as fatty deposits and get energy from breaking down other tissues instead?

(I'll be off to read up on some conditions when I have some time as I'm interested in learning a bit more about this)

[i]*rubs eyes*

*squints*

*pinches self*

{yep, he's back}

[/i]

Not for long.

Jamie, escaped this place.
He's on the outside now.

[img] [/img]

Both the 40 & 70 year old tri-ephalumps left legs look like a cross section of Homer Simpson's head

...either that or Alien Hominid.

[url= http://i.imgur.com/xzlfs.pn g" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/xzlfs.pn g"/> [/img][/url]

[i]...either that or Alien Hominid.

[/i]

Either that or a Man eating mushroom.

[i]presumably the following still holds true:

fuel in > fuel burnt = weight gain
fuel burnt > fuel in = weight loss

[/i]

Still ?.
That never was the case.

Food isn't just fuel.
Food is comprised of different nutrients, which, according to what exactly those nutrients are.
Will effect how they are used and stored / not used and stored by the body.
Which may lead to weight gain, OR, weight loss.

If a person has a disease which effects the nutrient absorption / handling of nutrients within their body, with respect to hormone imbalances, or some other issue.
Then this applies an additional degree of complexity to the issue of weight maintenance / loss/ /increase.

fuel in > fuel burnt = weight gain
fuel burnt > fuel in = weight loss

Still ?.
That never was the case

Well, it is the case over [b]a prolonged period of time.[/b]
If you burn more calories than you put in say over a 6 month period then you will lose weight. Impossible to be otherwise.

RE: medial conditions that affect metabolism and the way in which your body decides to use/store/convert your food intake....presumably the following still holds true:

fuel in > fuel burnt = weight gain
fuel burnt > fuel in = weight loss

or do they affect your body in such a way that its default is to convert and store food as fatty deposits and get energy from breaking down other tissues instead?

Happy to answer to the best of my ability!

The thyroid gland is one of the glands of the endocrine system and has two functions. First one is to control metabolism and second is to control growth in early life.

Hypothyroidism (under-active thyroid) produces less thyroid hormone than it should and this causes metabolism to run too slow.

Hyperthyroidism (over-active thyroid) produces more than it should and causes metabolism to run too fast.

Now, often hypothyroid folk can be deficient in vitamins and minerals. In addition certain foods can prevent absorption of iodine and these are known as goitrogenic foods, ie brussel sprouts, cabbage etc.

Often thyroid sufferers can have other conditons such as Graves, Hashimoto's, fibromyalgia, IBS, CFS etc.

It's complex, I struggle to get my head around the workings of the body, thanks to my brain fog!

What is worrying though is the Government are aiming to reduce by 20% the number of blood tests carried out. With a thyroid condition, regular blood testing is essential.

Thanks for the reply CG, definitely going to have a read as it all sounds very interesting...

So it sounds like you can end up in the awkward situation where your body is effectively fighting against its best interests, not just in a weight gain/loss sense, but also in terms of using or ignoring certain elements that it needs and basically ending up making it exceedingly difficult to get the right balance.

If you metabolism is running at the wrong rate (either way) I imagine it can play havoc with trying to make sure everything works as it should.

Best of luck and hope you make some headway with your treatment!

We're going for Gold at the Olympics you know!

[img] [/img]

ps. I don't knock seriously overweight people. This is just an on-topic joke. I have an ex who was quite overweight and she had to have her thyroid and a load of intestines removed, the hole in her stomach didn't heal up for a long, long time, she had problems eating, feeling ill, has become very thin now and is going back under the knife. That she wasn't given medical attention sooner was a real issue considering her environment where she should have had her health monitored.