Ooooh, you guys are really testing my brain fog/articulation so will attempt to answer.
Solo - I'm happy to talk about it, hurrah for t'interweb. 8)
FFS people need to take responsibility for their own behaviour.
Junkyard - they're plainly not taking responsibility and seeing as the NHS has to pick up the tab eventually then what's wrong with the Government stepping in?
I could of course speculate that it's in the interests of certain people for the population to be unhealthy thus ensuring the continuation of fat cat bonuses etc. Let's make no mistake, some folk in the food and pharmaceutical industries are doing very nicely thank you.
Phil - food is converted to glucose within the bloodstream. If energy isn't used quickly then insulin is secreted by the pancreas to lower blood sugar and glucose converted to glycogen to be stored by the liver. Glycogen is reconverted back to glucose on demand over a 24 hour span so it acts as short term energy source. If glycogen stores are full then glucose is converted to fat and trasnsported to the tissues for long-term storage. This long-term energy storage may become excessive but there's nowhere else for it to go hence getting fatter and fatter.
Now interestingly a medic I've consulted with lies the blame fairly and squarely on refined carbohydrates. One thing I've cut from my diet is fruit of which I ate huge quantities. Don't eat any now, it's been hard but no longer have blood sugar levels plummeting and that 'I must eat NOW' scenario.
Some people on the thyroid forum I use have enjoyed good results from changing their eating habits to any of gluten-free/meat-free/dairy-free/alcohol-free/tea and coffee-free/carbohydrate-free. Others have found it makes no difference.
Can I post a little pic? Here's me 3 years ago this month having fun descending Dunkery Beacon on Exmoor. Phil and TSY - notice the difference?
[img] 
?zz=1[/img]
Solo - I'm not prejudiced! Get a ****ing grip man!
I don't think of you differently to anyone else that posts on this subject.
I wasn't overly impressed with the Taubes video, I took the time to watch it and fed back my thoughts. They're different to your thoughts... so?
Edit: Yeah C_G... that's not a Litespeed?
What tyre for my belly wheel?
[img] 
[/img]
they're plainly not taking responsibility and seeing as the NHS has to pick up the tab eventually then what's wrong with the Government stepping in?
Depends on what the issue is but we have to allow adults the freedom to choose and this often involves them making bad choices, alcohol, overuse of cars and fags for example.
What next mandatory exercise?
its a whole can of worms but educating end consumers is the answer not going after the makers.
People need to accept their choices have consequences
[i]Jamie - Member
As he says it aint rocket science for most folk eat less move more
You just DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!!
*runs out of the room crying*
[/i]
😆 😆
I've not watched one of Solo's videos before, but this one's reasonably short and gives a good overview:
TSY.
You have been given new info, you are also free to search out info for yourself.
You also continue to pose the same question, 30-40 years ago, blah, blah.
Have you actually tried testing your beliefs from a sceptical stand point ?.
Being self critical of your beliefs and seeing if they stand up to your own standards of scrutiny.
You don't agree with Taubes ?, thats fine by me.
You don't agree with Lustig ?, OK.
You don't agree with Smith, or Sissons.
They are [b]all[/b] wrong ?.
Well, I'm in hounoured company then.
🙂
I don't believe that as things are at the moment, that you and I are going to agree on this.
But I'd hate to fall-out with you over that.
Tell me, why didn't you agree with Taubes comments on why exercising may not result in weight loss, especially in light of the historical records and evidence he referred to, to support his opinion ?.
Also, where was Taubes going wrong when he was discussing the Sao Paulo mothers with stunted growth children ?.
Genuine Qs.
I know you can spot things I haven't.
Phil - food is converted to glucose within the bloodstream. If energy isn't used quickly then insulin is secreted by the pancreas to lower blood sugar and glucose converted to glycogen to be stored by the liver. Glycogen is reconverted back to glucose on demand over a 24 hour span so it acts as short term energy source. If glycogen stores are full then glucose is converted to fat and trasnsported to the tissues for long-term storage. This long-term energy storage may become excessive but there's nowhere else for it to go hence getting fatter and fatter.
apologies as i'm really not trying to challenge you, that's a nicely worded and clearer description of the process than most could write 🙂 but its describing the process in which food gets turned into fat, not how having hypothyroidism can cause weight gain from a scientific point of view...
so going back to the basal metabolic rate, i have a feeling that reducing ones calorific intake in an attempt to match an individuals BMR will go a long weigh to slowing/halting unnecessary weight gain.
in your case, and please excuse me for making massive assumptions here, injury with a painfully long recovery time has meant you can't exercise to the level you used to, if you haven't changed your diet then that could lead to weight gain. its an awful situation as you can't heal without calories going in! Thank you for your honesty around what you've been through, i'm really not trying to pick on you but you've provided a good example for discussion.
Now interestingly a medic I've consulted with lies the blame fairly and squarely on refined carbohydrates. One thing I've cut from my diet is fruit of which I ate huge quantities. Don't eat any now, it's been hard but no longer have blood sugar levels plummeting and that 'I must eat NOW' scenario.
refined carbs being the emphasis behind the iDiet and many other diets out there, i hope/think most of us are in agreement that pumping sugar into everything is a bad thing 🙂 education is important, there is however a risk of putting people off the concept when people get all evangelical about the iDiet for example, or dont take the time to ask about and attempt to understand an individuals situations before telling them what they should and shouldn't be eating.
Some people on the thyroid forum I use have enjoyed good results from changing their eating habits to any of gluten-free/meat-free/dairy-free/alcohol-free/tea and coffee-free/carbohydrate-free. Others have found it makes no difference.
cos we're all individuals 😀 its good those people are trying adjusting their diet instead of just demanding meds and carrying on as they were before. if they were diabetic they'd be expected to improve their diets and not eat boiled sweets for every meal, demanding enough insulin to keep them safe. If they had broken a both arms they'd be expected to stop driving until they had healed instead of demanding driving aids. When we as humans become unwell we need to take responsibility for ourselves and try to make changes for the better, in most cases the medical professionals are pretty good at advising on those changes!
the western world is very demanding of our health sevices and unfortunately most people expect to be fixed with a tablet so they dont have to change anything they're used to or stop doing whatever they please. shame really as we dont get into the health profession to try and hurt people or stop them enjoying themselves, we do it to try and help people live the best life they can with the limited resources we're provided with.
[i]New York City plans to enact a far-reaching ban on the sale of large sodas and other sugary drinks at restaurants, movie theaters and street carts, in the most ambitious effort yet by the Bloomberg administration to combat rising obesity. [/i]
Not a headline that may ave been published in the NYT, 30-40 years ago.
Can someone tell me if I eat only sugar say 1500 calories a day, but burn 3000 calories a day... will I get fat?
Solo - Member
Granted don't eat loads of sugar... don't need a degree to work that one out.Other than that how does 'lifestyle' influence the levels of obesity?
Aw, TSY, Are we argumentative today ?.
You gonna pick on ole Solo again.
And there was me thinking we'd made-up.Posted 40 minutes ago # Report-Post
I just thought I'd quote you, quoting me Solo.. to help you out... what have I missed from the videos?
Maybe this quote for Miketually's re post..
"I you burn what you eat, then there's nothing to store - you don't need much insulin. If you don't burn what you eat, then you need to store it and insulin will go up very specifically to drive that energy into fat cells for storage"
It's semantics really isn't it... these Scientists want to take responsibility away from the individual for eating and drinking sugar. I want to place it on the individual. If the individual wants to eat sugar... then they need to get off their (soon to be) fat arses.
Phil.
I don't see and would like to know if a malfunctioning Thyroid might effect insulin response in some way ?.
Genuine Q.
For that matter, CG, is insulin response effected by Thyroid issues ?.
TSY, I would guess that you would lose weight and gain fat.
[i]Can someone tell me if I eat only sugar say 1500 calories a day, but burn 3000 calories a day... will I get fat?
[/i]
What did the professor tell us at the end of that 15 min video ?.
Can someone tell me if I eat only sugar say 1500 calories a day, but burn 3000 calories a day... will I get fat?
From the explanation given in the video above, the sugar would cause an insulin response leading to a chunk of your 1500 calories being immediately stored as fat. So, you'd only fewer calories to burn (your body can't access the calories stored as fat, because of the insulin). You'd feel tired, depressed, lethargic and hungry so you'd go home sit on the sofa and eat and play video games and, yes, you'd get fat.
Can someone tell me if I eat only sugar say 1500 calories a day, but burn 3000 calories a day... will I get fat?
For the sake of a good argument, try it?
I'd put money on you loesing weight, but ending up a higher %age bodyfat as the exercise breaks down your muscles and there's nothing going into replace it. So at best you'd lsoe muscle and some fat, at worst you'd lose lots of mucle and no fat.
[i]TSY, I would guess that you would lose weight and gain fat.
[/i]
That can happen, Taubes's referral to other peoples work which lead them to conclude that the fat accumulation process can appear to work independantly to the body's functional requirements, giving rise to processes such as gluconeogenesis.
Would mean that the body can make and store fat from the food you've consumed then consume skeletal muscle and organs to fuel activity.
Ah !, bollocks, I've got that all wrong.
Ignore me !.
Just move more and eat less, oh and count calories like your pancreas does.
Damn, I owe myself a fiver now 😕
yeti, you need to watch more 'supersize vs superskinny' for that answer. as you well know most of the skinny ones live on sugar. stalk one of the skinny ones then chase them for exactly the amount of time it takes to burn 3000kcals
[i]So at best you'd lsoe muscle and some fat, at worst you'd lose lots of mucle and no fat[/i]
This had been demonstrated in independant research, as referred to in that Taubes video of [i]total spin[/i].
What did the professor tell us at the end of that 15 min video ?.
that if he follows you around with an intravenous supply of insulin and he injects you when you eat then he can make you fat
he certainly did not say if you eat less than you use you will put on weight but he did offer an explanation of why people may eat more than they need.
Why not just answer the question rather than side step it?
the western world is very demanding of our health sevices and unfortunately most people expect to be fixed with a tablet so they dont have to change anything they're used to or stop doing whatever they please.
THIS. It is what fat people want to hear - hear have a pill you will be thinner eat what you like- he did not say that either
can appear to work independantly to the body's functional requirements,
so I can eat less than I use and get heavier then...can you explain this in terms of the first rule of thermodynamics?- If you were consuming your skeleton you would probably notice this nor do I think you would get fat [ certainly nit heavier]whilst doing this
We are just getting silly now
I was listening whilst typing... the Doc seems to be hypothesising about someone who's sedentry anyway?
Even the iDiet allows for sugars around exercise?
[i]eat what you like[/i]
Yeti eats whatever he likes.
[i]I was listening whilst typing... the Doc seems to be hypothesising about someone who's sedentry anyway[/i]
Ok, so now, what I'm going to do is point out that you are asking for answers to your questions, but not really paying attention to the answers.
Junkyard.
You're just not getting it.
You're not alone though.
😉
[i]Even the iDiet allows for sugars around exercise?
[/i]
So ?, whos saying anything about iDiet ?.
Forget the iDave diet.
This is the thread for the first law of thermodynamics and move more, eat less.
another £5 to me
EDIT.
Oh, btw TSY, I asked you about that Taubes video.
I'm not convinced you [i]watched[/i] it, did you 😉
no, this thread is about whether being fat is socially acceptable, then we moved onto CG's situation and i posted a fantastic post thats been lost amongst you lot arguing about the same old thing over and over again.
foools, you're missing my wisdom.
[i]foools, you're missing my wisdom.[/i]
Phil.
Actually I have read your posts here, I like most of what you've written.
🙂
^^^ I was being a bit satirical, while waiting for the ruling on whether " Chunky " in place of " Lard ass " is socially acceptable.
Your post was indeed very good phil and to answer the OP, being fat is socially acceptable to other fatties, thinnies will still point and laugh!
Junkyard.
You're just not getting it.
You're not alone though.
who would have thought that patronising your audience whilst not answering their questions was such a poor pedagogy?
You cannot breach the first law of thermodynamics* hence the repeated mockery
* if you can there is a noble prize waiting for you
Maybe I listened to it whilst working Solo... Powerpoints are boring at the best of times... let alone whilst at work 😀
What isn't Junky getting though... enough sugar?
He's lean. I'm lean. Edukator is lean. Jota is lean when he wants to be.
I mentioned iDiet... because of sugar... because of the insulin response that we are all aware of. I mention this because of the first rule of thermodynamics. I mention this because the lean people I know generally move more and eat less. I mention this because the fat people I know don't.
TSY.
JY is trollin cos hes still got a sorre ring from the Empire thread.
So he's rocked up here with an [i]agenda[/i].
JY, I'm not sure what your Q was, but your take on the Lustig video was obtuse to the point where I can't really spare the time to drag you through it all.
If you want to play games, go ahead.
I will just ignore you.
😀
[i]I mentioned iDiet... because of sugar... because of the insulin response that we are all aware of. I mention this because of the first rule of thermodynamics. I mention this because the lean people I know generally move more and eat less. I mention this because the fat people I know don't.
[/i]
And waving your arms and legs about, or starving yourself.
Moving more, eating less
WOOHOO, another £5 for me
Is what you're all about.
So, that being as it may.
I can't help but notice that you never seem to post much about hormones, you know, insulin, glucagon, etc, etc.
Leptin resistance, blah, blah.
These things are ignored by the move more, eat less group.
yet these hormones and processes are there and doing their thing.
How do you reconcile the presence and activity of our digestive systems, with the simple mantra of move more, eat less.
That was a tenner there, I'm getting the hang of this
These things are ignored by the move more, eat less group.
yet they are [s]there and doing their [/s]thin
Maybe it's because we're not fat or we've lost weight through this route and eat what we want so don't need to naval gaze and worry about hormones?
I cannot move more unless I eat more.
I also think that Junky is pointing out how offensive you can be to others when discussing things on a forum BTW.
These things are ignored by the move more, eat less group.
OK - given that I can control my weight, tell me why they should be of any great concern to me
I mentioned iDiet... because of sugar... because of the insulin response that we are all aware of. I mention this because of the first rule of thermodynamics. I mention this because the lean people I know generally move more and eat less. I mention this because the fat people I know don't.
Maybe cause and effect are the other way round? Perhaps the fat people eat more and move less [i]because[/i] they're fat? Perhaps the skinny people eat less and move more [i]because[/i] they're skinny?
Or, perhaps the greed and sloth have the same cause as the fatness and they're [i]not[/i] the cause of the fatness at all?
Some people remain skinny [i]despite[/i] eating lots and moving little. So, perhaps there are people who become fat [i]despite[/i] moving a lot and not eating much?
OK - given that I can control my weight, tell me why they should be of any great concern to me
Perhaps you could control your weight more effectively by learning about them?
perhaps there are people who become fat despite moving a lot and not eating much?
I'm not fat I have big bones. 😈
A wise man (of this parish) once said:
"We're all different"
(between mouthfuls of cheesecake)
Some people remain skinny despite eating lots and moving little. So, perhaps there are people who become fat despite moving a lot and not eating much?
YES!!!! back to the basal metablic rate 😀
Perhaps you could control your weight more effectively by learning about them?
It's good now, causes me no hardship, I have no need for anything that claims to be more effective
JY is trollin cos hes still got a sorre ring from the Empire thread.
So he's rocked up here with an agenda.
i recall Molly and Trailmonkey but not you on that thread-sorry to disappoint you.i dont think anyone won or lost we simply disagreed and I saw little point going over it again and again.
I am not even sure hat you mean here tbh but i will go for it not being flattery.
Is this how you always "debate"?
Ignore the points,gentle attacks, mockery and evasion
I will just ignore you.
As you have been ignoring all my points I dont think I will be loosing out on anything bar your gentle ad hominems
If you do reply please claim your noble Prize re thermodynamics rather than your £5
I also think that Junky is pointing out how offensive you can be to others when discussing things on a forum BTW
they are but it is more the fact they seem pretty passionate about this and I dont see why they think this approach will help anyone get it. FWIW i debate on issues not people...play the ball no the person so to speak.
YES!!!! back to the basal metablic rate
And the basal metabolic rate is regulated by what?
[i]Maybe it's because we're not fat or we've lost weight through this route[/i]
TSY.
Now I know you haven't seen that video.
You're missing the new info you are being offered.
You're remaining stuck and entrenched in your opinion based on our personal experience.
You do not appear to be considering what new research is teaching some people.
[i]OK - given that I can control my weight, tell me why they should be of any great concern to me
[/i]
Well, how about this, now I've a question for the move more eat less brigade.
I have been conducting a personal experiment.
For the last two weeks I have introduced an [b]additional[/b] activity while maintaining the same dietary intake.
In the good weather I have been riding to work instead of taking the car.
I eat the same, do the same amount of gym.
I weight the same.
Yet I have moved more.
I haven't been counting cals as this has been demonstrated to be total bunkum.
So, whats going wrong, eat less, move more'ers ?.
Why, after moving more, on the same amount of food, do I still weigh the same ?.
It's good now, causes me no hardship, I have no need for anything that claims to be more effective
So, don't learn about them?
Q. And the basal metabolic rate is regulated by what?
A. Activity levels.
What do I win?
So, don't learn about them?
That was the point I was making
Solo was criticizing the 'eat less, move more' followers for not wanting to learn about them
I was merely saying I didn't want to as I had no need
glad we're in agreement
And the basal metabolic rate is regulated by what?
everything 😀 hell, even getting your heart-rate up by imaginging deadlydarcy in lycra will increase your BMR!
