We installed our new PLs and APLs last night. Eight of them in total. Promoted entirely on ability.
No coincidence that 6 of the 8 are girls! Bigger, smarter and more mature than most of the boys.
We'll work with them and get them up to speed over the next term, but to be fair to them they were the obvious candidates.
We've never had sixers or seconders in our pack but I pushed to have them. Now they're in, we don't really know what to do with them. A camp could be a good idea.
A camp is a good way (esp with the limited numbers of PL/APL or 6er/2nders) to give more time for all to practice skills like firefighting/pioneering/knife skills when you’re not in a hurry to complete a task.
If you want to have a sausage sizzle one night, there isn’t the time to let everyone have a go with the flint & steel as you want the fire lit asap to then create the cooking embers. On her camps, one of the activities is my wife gets the cubs to make flints & steels then they can practice til they’re making fire quickly.
There’s also team building exercises so that when they go back to their patrol/6 they can be more of an instructor rather than doing the activity themself.
We’ve had a PL move up- her lashings were top notch so her patrol always made their project first but she did most of the work and had to be reminded to spread the knowledge with her patrol.
Our district used to run a Sixers and Seconders district camp, working on team skills etc
skills like firefighting
I'm sure this must be a typo. 🤔
Scout = 🔥🔥🔥
But the rest of that programme sounds great.
Sixers act as go-betweens leaders and Sixes. Seconders are responsible for keeping the Six together and in order. At least that's what we told ours this evening. We've made a couple of the more 'active' boys Seconders and and the penny hasn't quite dropped yet.
I'm speaking as a parent not a leader but it seems a bit unfair and pointless to give it to those that show the skills and not give those that might benefit most the chance to learn.
If the leaders make it clear to younger cubs they need to show they are capable and it's then a reward i'm less angsty... but how does a 8.5 or 9yo cub get to show that? So my thought as a parent is give them the role by age and the chance grow. I can see a cub or scout leader may prefer a different method though.
I'm very pleased my eldest has gone from normal cub, to 6er now, where she gets a full 6 months to grow. She's been moved 6 to facilitate it. Really pleased for her. She was gutted when a younger cub leapfrogged her to become 2nder in her original 6 and I was really peeved as she had no idea why.... that to me was really poor leaders. The leaders never raised anything with me or my wife either, so we had to pickup a battered little girl feeling pretty @#£% about herself, at a time when she was being bullied in school as well, and it took a lot of hard parenting to sort that mess. Took a lot of effort not to have stern words with the shortsighted leaders that had really knocked her confidence when she was not far from rock bottom anyway. Hence... I'm really really proud she's kind of shown the leaders how wrong they were and got it now.... but annoyed I guess as I doubt the leaders would see it, and I feel sorry for the next kid they may hurt.
Phewy, hard post.
My comments about Sixers/Seconders are based on and more applicable to PLs/APLs, but at any rate leaders bring all the experience they have to bear upon the group they're working with and we don't always get it right. Look at how much big companies spend on HR and remember we're volunteers who see them once a week.
Exactly, so snap judgements can be way off.
but annoyed I guess as I doubt the leaders would see it, and I feel sorry for the next kid they may hurt
I tend to appoint 6ers by age, but theres big caveats in there, the dynamic of the 6 and individual members within it will determine who I think can handle it , its also important that the 6er and 2er can work together.
Ultimately not every kid can be a 6er or a 2er, sometimes the ages/numbers just don't work out
its also impossible to know whats going on with kids outside cubs or in school, the best thing to do is speak to the leaders, were all just volunteers and certainly no one wants to hurt anyone!
Yes, and sorry for your daughter's experience. A well functioning group has good communication between kids, leaders and parents. Every group is different but their aims should be clear.
@garage-dweller, yes should be lighting (fat fingers/old eyes!) but we do teach them to have a means of putting out a fire available before starting a fire!
In our troop, PL/APL appointments are discussed by the 4 leaders so there's no bias. Sometimes it can be a result of demographics. We have 5 all around the same age that are moving to explorers at Christmas- 4 PLs & 1 APL. We could have kept them as is until then but that means one doesn't get to be PL. The solution was to create a "senior" patrol of the current 4 PLs at the start of this term and the APL is now a PL
Discussion must help a lot. I'm not sure there's any of that (pretty sure there isn't!) At this cub pack.
Has anyone done anything with sound deadening in their hut? Ours is somewhat akin to being in a snare drum at times.
I’m wondering about something like this on the ceilings.
https://www.acousticfoam.uk/
I've suggested a 6/2er camp for our newly promoted crop. I've been immediately warned that this won't go well because the parents of non 6/2ers won't like being excluded, so it has to be redrawn as a P6er camp. Fair enough, I don't mind that but the particular parents who would likely grumble have zero interest in engaging with us (in part about their son's low-attendance) until something is of interest to them. Leaders might not always make the "right" call in the bigger picture of one kid's life at that moment, but who's to say that parents shouldn't be part of dealing with fallout (within reason) ? I'm playing devil's advocate in the vein of "life isn't always fair".
Happy to deal with my children, but knowing why they've not been chosen so i can answer when asked, and i can help my kids to acquire missing skills would be useful.
knowing why they've not been chosen
Have you asked?
Scout leader here, and whilst clearly thought goes into the PL/APL choosing, it's not an exact science and we don't, and can't be expected to, consider the individual implications or effect the decision will have on every child. It's probably a 15 minute conversation at best.
We may look past kids who really want it for a number of reasons, one of which could be that we didn't know they really wanted it. And there's definitely no way I'm going to go out of my way afterwards to debrief all the parents of the kids who were considered and passed over, or not even considered at all, as to why the decision was made in the way that it was and/or what their child needs to learn our do to get it next time. Saying that, if they asked me, I would explain the decision, although there would likely be less material detail than they may be looking for (again, it's not like a huge amount of deliberation will have happened; we're assigning minor roles to twelve year olds, not picking the CEO of a PLC)
Also, and I can't stress this enough; it's just Cubs/Scouts. It's really not that important, and the parents need to understand this as much as the kids. If they become PL/APL/6er/2er then that's great. If they don't, than the lessons to be learned are
a) not everyone can be, and don't take it as a personal criticism that it wasn't you (or your child) this time
and/or
b) sometimes life isn't fair, and we all have to learn to take things on the chin.
I get that b) is a tough lesson, but it's probably the most valuable one.
Has anyone done anything with sound deadening in their hut? Ours is somewhat akin to being in a snare drum at times.
I’m wondering about something like this on the ceilings.
https://www.acousticfoam.uk/
You need to reduce the amount of hard reflective surfaces, so put up curtains on all the windows, flags or soft board notice boards on the walls. Depending on the size of your hut and the size of your groups bank account, those tiles could get a bit expensive. We made up some sound deadening panels (wooden frame with foam filler and a fabric cover) which were hung from the ceiling.
So, I need to organise a 'bike maintenance skills' thing for my lot. Groups of about 7-10 scouts with about 30 minutes per group.
I'm thinking of covering finding and fixing a puncture and general cleaning/lubing dos and don'ts, I reckon that's about all we'll get through in the time available. I'll take a couple of bikes and some old wheels so they can have a go at getting tubes out of and back into tyres. Anyone done similar?
I do similar, by the time 3 or4 have had a go, waiting for glue to dry etc, the 30 mins goes quite quickly. Also do a pre- ride check over talk
I have attempted fixing a puncture with the cubs. Quiet hard work trying to do a few repairs in a short period of time. Attention spans aren't great and the odds of a cub actually repairing a puncture is slim at their age. I'm sure some kids can but they will probably need assistance with a real repair 🤔.
Good luck!
Yes IHN I did ask. My daughter was a bit upset so we spoke about what the reason maybe, and i then asked the cubs leaders so I could better explain to my daughter. It only took a line in an email. I didn't need more, my point here was my daughter would have understood that and it wasn't that she hadn't been made 6er earlier that was the problem, it was the confusion caused, she didn't know why and that upset her.
It's not a big thing, but can feel big to a cub.
We did Conkers last night
Chaos!
It's not a big thing, but can feel big to a cub.
I get that. I suppose my point (which, reading it back now, does sound a bit ranty, which was unintentional) is that I don't know what more you can expect of the leaders in that situation. I think to expect them to proactively explain to all the cubs that weren't picked as to why they weren't picked is unreasonable. If you asked them, and they told you, then it's all good, right?
Question. Do you give cubs tidy l that aren't 6er the chance to earn the team leader challenge badge?
Do you give cubs tidy l that aren't 6er the chance to earn the team leader challenge badge?
Yeah see this pack insist, 6ers only get the chance. Seems strange to me but it is not my pack so I don't make the rules. As i said, happy to follow the rules, but I I think they could... should be clearer what the rules are.
Anyway, I've got sewing to do, she's got the badge tonight. (And my 8yo was invested)
Well, we were camping at Linnet Clough this weekend with 27 scouts. Fair to say that is was a camp that I survived rather than enjoyed as I felt pretty crap all weekend, but they had fun which is the main thing.
They also learned that, as fun as it is to whack things with a mallet, if you drive an eight inch wooden tent peg in to three inches below the surface of the ground you're going to spend a looooooooooong time getting it out again...
Did you get any "Badger Action"?
We've got two scout teams and one explorer team at The Beavan Challenge this weekend, but I'm not going.
My next camp is over Halloween weekend at Whitley Beaumont near Huddersfield. Never been, so don't know what to expect.
Hammocks, pioneering, a "Tough Mudder" and a Halloween party.
Cycling cubs tonight.
- slow race
- track stand comp
- bike cleaning
- tube fix
- ride the bumps in the woods
Did you get any "Badger Action"?
Nope, but we did have a very strict "no food in the tents" rule which, amazingly, they stuck to. I think they're all well aware of the Legend of Jamie Beale and don't want a repeat.
"Legend of Jamie Beale"? Intrigued.
We had a badger drink a litre of cooking oil. It must have crapped itself inside out.
+1 invested in the Legend of Jamie Beale.
+2, unless it's an Eastenders thing
It's basically the story of Linnet Clough camp where a lad, let's call him Jamie Beale, started getting a bit angsty about badgers when we gave them the "no food in the tent cos of badgers" talk when we got there. So, when he saw a badger outside his tent at about 9pm he freaked out a bit. We got him calmed down and all went off to play a wide game. Then it was back for supper, hot chocolate and bed.
About half an hour after they'd all gone down he appears again, all teary and homesick and saying he can hear noises outside the tent, and whilst I'm dealing with him one of the other leaders gets a call from his Dad, cos unbeknownst to us Jamie had already rung him saying he wanted to be picked up. Jamie's dad was not going pick him up, cos Jamie's dad had, quite understandably as it was now about 11pm on a Saturday night, had about five pints.
So, again, we get Jamie calmed down and I tell him to go back to his tent and go to sleep and he'll feel better in the morning. He doesn't want to walk there on his own as he's now really freaking out about badgers, so I walked across with him. As we're walking, the light from my torch shines on the arse end of a big ol' badger, the front end of which is under the canvas of Jamie's patrol's tent...
At this point Jamie just explodes. Much, much, much cajoling and calming eventually get him back into the tent with his patrol, who thought the initial investigation of them by the badger was quite funny and they'd scared it away quite easily.
The following morning they weren't so chipper, as Mr Badger was nothing if not persistent and they spent the entire night trying to keep it out of the tent. They had the thousand yards stares of privates who've come off the front line of a war zone, one of them slept, when they did sleep, with the mallet in his hand.
I went to check the tent for damage, and it was no surprise that Mr Badger was persistent, cos the groundsheet was essentially a carpet of Doritos.
"Who's are those?" I asked?
"Jamie's".
My lot were warned and got raided on the first night. We warned them again and everyone got rid of the contraband food apart from one tent... that got raided again.
Had a badger snuffling about my tent in the middle of the night, so I told it to "**** Off". And it did. I'm just like Dr Doolittle.
There's a big winter camp at Linnet next February / March. Are you going?
here's a big winter camp at Linnet next February / March. Are you going?
Nope, you? We do our winter camp every year at Gradbach, last weekend of January. I might have a ride past the Linnet one though, see what's going on.
Any ideas for 'skills challenge' stuff that takes basically zero prep? We're doing it on Thursday and I'm supposed to be doing bike maintenance, but this week is turning into 'one of those weeks' and sorting out the tubes/wheels/glue/patches etc etc is going to be a bit of a faff. I need something that will work for groups of about ten scouts, lasting about 20 minutes.
Got any poles? Da Vinci Bridge?
We do a good teamwork/communications thing:
Three Chair River Crossing
- Split them into teams.
- Give each team three chairs.
- Tell them that they have to get from one side of the room to the other using the chairs without touching the floor.
- There cannot be more people than chairs when doing a crossing.
Basically they have to work out that they go across in twos by moving the unoccupied chair and stepping across, then one of them has to go back with two chairs to get the next person.
Starts off as a problem solving exercise, develops into a race.
That chair thing sounds good, will use that at some point, but I need something to tick off the 'practical skills' bit:
We've got a 'basics of using a drill' base (which I now wish I'd bagsied cos it'll be easy; just turn up with some scraps of wood and a drill), a 'how to clean a kitchen/floor/toilet' (which Useless John is doing, and he can have it), and I said I'd do basic bike maintenance.
Cub camp this weekend
But 50mph winds and rain making it look questionable!
Cub camp this weekend
But 50mph winds and rain making it look questionable!
Yeah, our cubs are theoretically off to a district camp at Barnswood which is looking iffy
...and I've had a brainwave for the skills thing. I've got an old table and chair that were simple flatpack builds. Split the group into two, one has to take the chair apart and the other the table, then they swap and have to work out how to reassemble them. If assembling flatpack with no instructions isn't a life skill, then I don't know what is.
Well, we've just pulled all of our teams our of The Beavan Challenge this weekend. 60mph winds in a wooded site. On top of the risk to the kids it'll potentially trash our kit and we wouldn't be able to use the parachute.
There's also the issue of it being miserable for the kids.
I think the organisers are hanging on for a day or so, but we've withdrawn in time to cancel the food order.
Bugger.
