[Closed] BAN TRUMP FROM THE UK PETITION

It's a lot of noise for someone who doesn't stand a chance of winning. They voted Obama in last time for crying out loud, switching to Trumpet from there is preposterous.
All this is just clickbait.

The closer to the light he's held the more easy it will be for folks to see through him.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

He does not stand a chance of winning, that is correct.

However, it should not be underestimated the damage giving him a platform is doing. His racist rhetoric is putting many many lives in danger, and I am not talking white lives here, I am talking the already isolated Muslim communities throughout the western world.

His words, his actions, his demeanor is dangerous, worryingly so. And comparing it to that of the treatment of the Jews is about as accurate as you can get. We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.

I don't see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

I don't think we are. The US have always had their share of loonies (as have we), Trump isn't a lot worse than Palin was

I don't recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn't exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I don't recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

I looked at it yesterday, thought about it, changed my mind and didn't click the email confirmation, then heard the UK politicians don't want anything to do with it and thought, definitely sign, if only to make them squirm, which party does he donate to over here I imediately wondered. In the short time of deliberation it had doubled from over two to four hundred climbing as fast as the Clarkson one, with the news media featuring it on almost every bulletin, the same news media that created the furore in the first place. If he wasn't reported, would it really have happened?

Indifferent to these dopey petitions but all for getting more of that balloon trick on page 1. Proppalol.

Who would win the Hairstyle Slapdown?

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LHS - Member

I don't see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

I made absolutely no link between Capitalism and racism, although the link is obvious.

This is exactly what I said :

ernie_lynch - Member

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.
Posted 18 minutes ago #

You probably have noticed that we have in recent years experienced the worse global crises of capitalism since the 1930s.

Perhaps you haven't noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.

This greater political polarization can be linked to prevailing economic conditions. I suggest you consider that rather than relying on smart-arse comments such as "good try" 💡

mrlebowski - Member

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn't exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don't think he is.

Perhaps you haven't noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.

ernie_lynch - Member

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don't think he is.

He most definitely isn't and it is a very dangerous game being played.

wrecker - Member

It hasn't changed anyones views. There are plenty of loons who must love him. They were loons before and they will be loons when Trump has gone.

But right now they're loons being empowered and emboldened. I've posted about this a couple of times and maybe in this thread, so, not to repeat myself but it's pretty bad news. lots of people have unpleasant thoughts but don't feel brave enough to share them. Now you've got a * presidential candidate being a **** on telly, other *s are more likely to go out and be ****s.

It might not change views but it'll change how vocal people are about those views, and whether they choose to act on them.

Yeah I don't see any differences in left gain or right gains. Think you are trying to make a link that's not there.

Hesn't there always been these gains/losses though ernie?

Well if it was so these gains wouldn't have been unexpected. The general consensus is/was that they were unexpected.

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

Hmm, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

Trump is a loon, an intelligent loon which makes him dangerous. That's why I think he shouldn't be ignored.

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn't make them go away.

Ah, get you. I thought it was more just running away from whatever they already had, rather than a collective shift of position (left/right).

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn't make them go away.

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe politician from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments.

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party

Could this be because he's mostly funding his campaign himself though?
Others have sponsors, donors to potentially upset, and PR people with a tight control on things, limiting what they can say.

Could this be because he's mostly funding his campaign himself though?

Quite possibly but whatever the reasons the level of bigotry which Trump has been expressing has never been mainstream US politics.

Well certainly not for quite a few decades.

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments

He has about 8% of the vote - I'd call that pretty fringe. If he wasn't Trump we'd all have forgotten about him long ago.

[quote=ernie_lynch ]It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right.

So they've both moved towards the other?

mrlebowski - Member

He has about 8% of the vote - I'd call that pretty fringe.

What Trump says makes the main news headlines, he has become a high profile Republican politician whose comments are increasingly being discussed by political pundits, but if you want to dismiss him as an irrelevant fringe politician whose comments will never be discussed in mainstream politics then that's up to you, you are of course free to think whatever you want to think. However subeditors, headline writers, and TV/radio news input controllers, don't appear to agree with you.

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aracer - Member

"United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right"

So they've both moved towards the other?

I don't understand the point of the question. Are you suggesting that US politics hasn't shifted to the left with the change from Bush to Obama, and that UK hasn't shifted to the right the change from Brown to Cameron?

I agree with jambalaya. This is all great for Trump - he can use it as an example of how pussified Europeans are so dominated by Muslims they want to suppress his voice. It would have been much better to invite him to an open debate, preferably in Scotland. He would never have accepted. He is not a serious risk to UK public order. We shouldn't be afraid to take him on.

Like one of our elder statesmen said: "come tae Glasgae. We'll just set aboot ye".

UK hasn't shifted to the right the change from Brown to Cameron?

The UK never elected Brown

Eh? what's that got to do with anything? There was a shift to the right when Gordon Brown was replaced as prime minister by David Cameron. And who said anything about it being "a major shift" btw?

EDIT : I can't believe that I'm arguing whether there was a shift to the right when a Labour prime minister was replaced by a Tory prime minister, some people really will say that black is white just to for the sake of contradicting, it would appear. ffs

I'm not arguing. New labour (as was) are routinely described as neo cons, and not really left wing at all by the labour voters. The Uk can't shift from a Pm it never elected. Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

In real politics it was like a shift from 2% to the left to 1.9% to the left. Its still very left in comparison.

Like it or not you need Merica.

Without Merica you have no legs to stand on. Simple.

As my Texan cowboy mate used to say "We kicked your arse!" (in cowboy accent please).

I bet Trump knows what he is getting when he enters politics so petition or not you are just not at his level. 🙄

Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

He never said that[ lets just ignore the fact he actually said Brown as well] he said Cameron is more right wing than him

A point, even on stw, its hard to believe anyone will actually dispute.

FWIW I though it was a clever joke by aracer on them moving closer to each other

Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

No.

That doesn't mean the Tories aren't more right wing than the last Labour government.

Or do you think it does?

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The Uk can't shift from a Pm it never elected

I said there was a shift to the right in UK politics after the global credit crunch.

In 2005 the largest party in parliament was the Labour Party, in 2010 the largest party in parliament was the Tory Party. Is it really that difficult to understand?

That doesn't mean the Tories aren't more right wing than the last Labour government.

Or do you think it does?

Not a major shift IMHO.

In 2005 the largest party in parliament was the Labour Party, in 2010 the largest party in parliament was the Tory Party. Is it really that difficult to understand?

Well I'm trying to be, I can't say it's easy though.

Nobody has been insulting, tried to make anyone look silly, or even particularly disagreed with your stuff. I have no idea why you get so bitchy. Are you like this all the time?

I bet Trump knows what he is getting when he enters politics so petition or not you are just not at his level. [/quote

I don't want to be at his level - there's nothing down there but cockroaches & sh1t.

 

The UK never elected Brown, the shift was from Blair to Cameron.

I think @ernie is quite correct to say that the economic crises is relevant to the significant shift in politics we are seeing.

It is true that as someone not beholden to financial backers he can say pretty muchnwhat he wants. Its certsinky ironic given how much critism we see of financial interests manipulating politicians where here we see the impact of someone operating of his own free will.

IMO its quite wrong to look at Trump's vote as a national overall percentage. What matter is who wins the Republican nomination and if its not Trump whether he stands as an independent. I still believe he could win the nomination but doubt he can win the Presidency in that case, but it isn't impossible. The Democrats best chance maybe Trump standing as an independent.

The UK never elected Blair or Cameron either.

The UK never elected Blair or Cameron either.

Its not pedantic to point out that we dont vote for the PM its just a fact.