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Not sure if this has already been covered in the Solar thread but thought it was possibly of enough interest for its own.
I have roof solar at home a battery and an ASHP and have been interested in more solar on my summer house roof but it does mean some jiggery pokery with my current setup and possibly some changes to certification etc. We are lucky with a south facing garden so our panels generate quite a bit during the spring and summer months. I may cobble together a small frame (we dont have a balcony) and move it around my garden plugged into a weatherproof socket. Alternatively a larger kit that allows me to fix semi permanently to my south facing summer house roof (20sqm)
Anyone have experience of these and their real world power generation?
I don’t but am very interested.
Do you really just point it at the sun ,plug it in and the electricity goes back onto the grid?
My understanding is yes. They have their own built in inverter so stand alone. Not going to move the dial much but its free electricity and in practical terms could be a top up for a car etc. Interested in real world gains and payback.
I think the term for those is "plug in solar" an is quite popular in Germany from what I've read.
Are you talking about this? https://www.dw.com/en/boom-small-solar-devices-plugged-into-household-sockets-german-energy-transition/a-75022163
Last I heard it was being hung up on some regulations for the UK, but that was a while ago.
Last I heard it was being hung up on some regulations for the UK, but that was a while ago
It's been approved for UK use this week
Anyone have experience of these and their real world power generation?
Me....although mine is a 6 panel 2.5kwh system and because of that, I have it running into the consumer unit via a breaker. (I live in France) Mine is effectively 3 x twin panel systems that feed into one cable running to house. They are attached to a wooden frame at ground level at the top of our South facing garden and work very well. We are low energy users anyway but they've knocked about 1/3rd off our annual consumption. We have a hot water tank and immersion heater so now have that on a timer 10am to 3pm. Our set up was c €1300 in 2024, they are now down to €769 for a 2080w system.
In France, you have to notify the 'Grid' that you have such a system and send them the certification certificate...I got a positive "Yeah, it's fine" reply the day after I submitted it. (It presumably allows any engineers to suss out which properties may still have some electric coursing thru their veins when there is a power cut)
Ive been watching this progress for a while. A 'pukka' solar install isnt cost effective for me given our roof, and putting a pukka fixed system on the detached garage wasnt cost effective given the need for long new drenched cable runs, etc etc.
But these would work better for us (with a few-kwh battery). As I should be able to plug it into the garage power and back-feed to the house. 800w isnt massive, but it will put a dent into the bills. We used an average of 7.8mwh electric per day over the past 12 months. So if we can get a couple of kwh back a day on average, the payback will be a few years but not decades
which properties may still have some electric coursing thru their veins when there is a power cut)
There wont be any power - an as sold balcony solar system requires to see a mains supply before feeding to the grid.
Not sure if this has already been covered in the Solar thread but thought it was possibly of enough interest for its own.
Fair bit of info on the solar thread if you'd looked 😉
Balcony solar is limited to 800w by the built-in micro inverter - it will definitely help as long as it faces south. Just don't expect anything in the winter.
We used an average of 7.8mwh electric per day
I bet you didn't!
In France, you have to notify the 'Grid' that you have such a system and send them the certification certificate...I got a positive "Yeah, it's fine" reply the day after I submitted it.
It's the same in UK. You are allowed to export 3.68kW without asking permission, you just submit a g98 form after installation.
Micro generation systems like this will surely be a good thing overall.
We do get a good deal of solar but not much until mid morning. Having an array pointing in the opposite direction (at the bottom of the garden) would capture from early morning, then spin it around in the afternoon :-). Obvs intended for balconies but the built in invertor is a game changer.
I’ll be getting one when they become available.
If you’re considering a setup then get an electrician round to check the RCD feeding the circuit you intend to plug into, it needs to be bi-directional, if it’s not there’s a good chance it won’t work if there’s a fault. They have been standard one the continent for years but only relatively recent in the uk
which properties may still have some electric coursing thru their veins when there is a power cut)
There wont be any power - an as sold balcony solar system requires to see a mains supply before feeding to the grid.
Yes - because the solar / battery output needs a reference to synchronise to (otherwise it could be out of phase- at best causing some noise / interference, or worst knackering other devices or if 180 degrees out, cancelling out the incoming power !
Not sure if this has already been covered in the Solar thread but thought it was possibly of enough interest for its own.
Fair bit of info on the solar thread if you'd looked 😉Balcony solar is limited to 800w by the built-in micro inverter - it will definitely help as long as it faces south. Just don't expect anything in the winter.
We used an average of 7.8mwh electric per day
I bet you didn't!In France, you have to notify the 'Grid' that you have such a system and send them the certification certificate...I got a positive "Yeah, it's fine" reply the day after I submitted it.
It's the same in UK. You are allowed to export 3.68kW without asking permission, you just submit a g98 form after installation.Micro generation systems like this will surely be a good thing overall.
Ahh yes. I'd included the new 25kv electric locomotive in that ! . .mixing work and home time. 7.8 K (not M !)wh
I assume in Britain, unless you have a specific export tariff and device that clocks what you export, then if youre exporting you're just giving the network your electricity for free if you feed into the supply.
Are there really people still resisting smart meters in this day and age.
I'm not clear on the mechanism by which plugging in some garden solar results in lower bills.
Does the grid tell your supplier how much you've generated and they lower your bill accordingly?
I assume in Britain, unless you have a specific export tariff and device that clocks what you export, then if youre exporting you're just giving the network your electricity for free if you feed into the supply.
Yes I think that is the case though I think the export reading for billing comes from the main smart electric meter (we do have a secondary export meter).
After actually looking it up t seems you can just use that power directly in your house.
After actually looking it up t seems you can just use that power directly in your house
Yes that's 100% the idea.
On a nice bright day the first 5-800w you use will come from the solar.
If you already have a solar installation can you add "balcony" solar in addition and does this require additional grid notification?
If so can you then can add additional until you reach the 3.68kW limit?
Good shout ref the uni directional RCD.
Are there really people still resisting smart meters in this day and age.
Yes. If you have a dumb meter you get paid for 50% of what you generate, regardless of what you use. If you have a smart meter you only get paid for what you send to the grid (i.e. amount generated minus what you use). If you've got an electric immersion heater, charging an EV and battery storage you are probably using more than half of what you generate.
Yes. If you have a dumb meter you get paid for 50% of what you generate, regardless of what you use. If you have a smart meter you only get paid for what you send to the grid
which suppliers offer that on new installs on todays market . that's(as far as i know) only for legacy installs on FIT payments.
that's(as far as i know) only for legacy installs on FIT payments.
This.
The 50% deemed export stopped a very, very long time ago.
If you already have a solar installation can you add "balcony" solar in addition and does this require additional grid notification?
If so can you then can add additional until you reach the 3.68kW limit?
Good question.
At the moment, you can have up to 3.68 kW potential export hooked up to the grid under a simple G98 notification.
Anything over that needs G99 permission.
So if you've got 3.68 kW installed now then I guess theoretically you should apply for G99 if you want to put balcony solar in as well.
If for example, you have 2 kW installed now. You could theoretically add 800w (or even two) balcony solar without any notification.
It will be interesting to see which way this goes.
If you’re considering a setup then get an electrician round to check the RCD feeding the circuit you intend to plug into, it needs to be bi-directional, if it’s not there’s a good chance it won’t work if there’s a fault. They have been standard one the continent for years but only relatively recent in the uk
Just looked. We have a type AC RCD (judging by the little symbol on it), so that means we'll need an electrician to update it to at least type A, yes? So not quite "plugin" for us... but we'll be getting onboard anyway.
I watched an efixx youtube video review of the dji power 2000 that can be charged by solar and then export the power back into the domestic circuit via a 3 pin plug. It mentioned stuff about the rcd and some other info that i cant recall. I think they were using a shelly rcd, possibly with wifi control.
The video was a few months ago so prior to this weeks updated legislation.
It's been approved for UK use this week
Possibly the only good news I've read this week, thanks
My reading of the press release was they were announcing that they were going to change the regs to allow it rather than they had already. Suggested on,y a few months off though.
It's been approved for UK use this week
As noted above, it hasnt been approved for use yet. There is a big problem in that BS1363 (for plugs and accessories) does not allow plugs to be used for generated electricity. BS7671 (the wiring regs) isnt really bothered, as plug in appliances are beyond its remit. Yes, you should have a Type A RCD at the minimum now, and it is going toward Type B now too for anything that uses an inverter, - Type B's are a bit expensive, so those with no morals, or lack of a clue are not fitting them.
The announcement this week by the Government is a bit of a mess, with, it seems, little input from the electricial industry. A .gov dept has come up with this plan to allow plug in solar, but not thought it through at all. On top of that, the benefits of 'balcony' solar are quite low, and expensive, with a long pay back time.
Government announcement HERE
From a thread on the IET electrical forum "
that example is an 800W (1600 W.hr so 2hrs at full load ) battery unit offered in Belgium
€1750. Suppose that you charge it up during the day and use it all up in the evening, that would save about 40p per day = £150/year, so quite a long pay-back period.
Yeah I don’t really see the benefit of adding a battery to a system so small, more for people working from home, computers running, few lights on, fridge etc just to save a bit of money and if you don’t use it all does it really matter if you don’t get paid for a few watts you put into the grid.
Someone above asked about adding one to an installation with a system already installed. There’s a possibility if there’s a power cut each system will see the other one as the grid and the inverters won’t disconnect, which would be good for you but less so the person who’s working on the network who thinks it’s been isolated!
Well, that shouldn't happen. Without the "mass" of the grid connection to hold voltage and frequency, the inverters will instantly see voltage and or frequency outside of very tight limits and shut down.
Similarly with a plug in inverter, pull the plug and it will shut down instantly, not leave now exposed plug pins live.
I can sense the various safety standards committees in a cold sweat now with these proposals!
I'm not clear on the mechanism by which plugging in some garden solar results in lower bills.
Does the grid tell your supplier how much you've generated and they lower your bill accordingly?
The main idea is that the power from your solar/ battery powers (or helps power) the other things drawing in your house - like the fridge, TV, part of the kettle energy when making a brew. So you don't draw as much power through your electricity meter in the 1st place.
There does need to be some 'smart' logic / outputting from the battery to avoid sending the battery's power when theres not enough demand from your house (eg some can take a non-intrusive measure of the current coming onto the house between the power conpany's fuse and your meter, and not 'send' power from the battery when there is no demand . Or some folks have an agreed tariff where they can sell back to the grid. In which case yes they measure power being sent out. The downside of selling power to the grid is they pay a fraction to you per kwh as they normally charge you. So better to keep your electricity for your own use !
But take my house - theres always 100w or more being used to run the fridge/ freezer, 2nd freezer in the garage, the WiFi router, etc. So If I had say a 2.4kwh battery I could set it to export 100w constantly all day to fuel those absolute basic constant loads.
(There are some cunning folks thst can make money on this by having a big bank of batteries they charge up at night at 7 or 8p a kwh, then expirt back at 15p when demand is higher. But that's a whole load more complex and expensive up front that this 'balcony solar'
There’s a possibility if there’s a power cut each system will see the other one as the grid and the inverters won’t disconnect, which would be good for you but less so the person who’s working on the network who thinks it’s been isolated!
We had a new pole put in outside our house a couple of weeks ago.
I was talking to the engineer and asked what the extra cables where that they had attached to the overhead lines. Apparently their "shorts" that protect them just in case someone has a system that doesn't disconnect from the grid as it's supposed to.
So my knowledge on electricity is next to none.
From above you buy a ‘pack’ that plugs into a socket in your garden that then passes electricity into your house and it powers stuff lowering what is used from the grid?
Can you then plug a big battery into that in the garage to store that energy and then feed back in at night to power the fridge / router etc?
Can I at times unplug that battery and put it in my car to recharge my ebike ?
Basically yes - but, as already said 800w, isn't very much and the payback on your battery is going to be looking.
I believe the “Ecoflow” systems allow more or less what you mention. Their batteries have 13a sockets in so they can be used islanded during a mains outage. (Where the inverters /solar will have shutdown without the mains reference) So I guess you could unplug one and carry it about.
I believe some of Their batteries can be linked together so you could possibly remove one to be portable and leave one connected to the solar. Worth a read or look on you tube as they do a variety of systems.
note… I don’t think these will be currently ratified for the UK plug in “balcony” process as it’s not agreed and implemented as folks have mentioned above. I think most of the folks on you tube already have other solar installs and maybe use their existing G98 for these small systems.
I think most of the folks on you tube already have other solar installs and maybe use their existing G98 for these small systems.
That's fine under the current system if your existing solar is <2.5kW .... but the vast majority are bigger and you'd potentially need atondo a G99 application which can cost £££ and takes weeks before you can plug it in IF they say yes.
I'm sure there will have to be changes made.
Agreed. If it ends up approved at under 1kw ( or whatever below the current 3.68) it would make sense for there to be a G98 lite for the connect and notify interaction with the DNO. If the take up is significant it will need something or the Rec’s will become even more bogged down.
The kits should come with the forms part filled in or similar so the homeowner can add their personal info and just send it off /type it in online maybe. Time will tell.
In at number 1 on the paperwork I wouldn't be doing.
Presumably the intention is that you use solar to charge it up in the day time, then use it in the evening, then charge it again over night on the cheap rate and discharge in the morning. You'd be getting two lots of saving from your battery each day no? A DJI2000 2kw battery is 800 quid + a couple of hundred for some big panels. My back of the envelope maths suggests pay back of about 290quid a year doing that on octopus intelligent go and making some reasonable assumptions re: solar in the UK. I've ignored any export/additonal useage on sunny days.
So payback in 3.5 years which doesn't seem crazy bad - battery is going to last 5-6 years i'd have thought that two cycles a day. Plus you have a power pack if you go camping or whatever. Obviously that assumes you don't pay someone to install it, but that's the entire point.