[Closed] Avoiding possible future boundary wall issues

I would go for a free 30 minute chat with a solicitor if there are any near you offering that, or maybe CAB. It looks like one of those clear common sense things that can go horribly wrong when the neighbour from hell turns up and disputes everything.

There was something a while back where a whole street of houses each had a little bridge to their driveway that went over a private waterway and paid something like 1p per year for the privilege. A new person bought the rights to the river and started demanding stupid money to the house owners for the right to use the bridges or cross his waterway, effectively cutting the houses off from the rest of the village. All legal and all stupid.

Boundaries are a pita, as much as anything else, because its very rarely clear where they are, certainly not to half a brick width. If someone wants to make a point of it in the future 100mm more or less is unlikely to be enough to argue it decisively either way.

I mean, is the wall genuinely, indisputably the neighbours, currently wholly on their land and shown on the deeds as such? If not that's all the ambiguity it needs if someone wants to be a dick about it.

If it's a genuine concern can't the half a brick width be taken off the other side of the aperture?

If not taking legal advice I’d actually be tempted to do it as a kind of lease - that way it’s unequivocally your property it’s built on. You could just say £1/year and let your neighbour ceremonially give you a coin which you immediately return to him.

I’m not particularly concerned - It’s a tiny change in the scheme of things. I doubt I’ll live here forever where as I think he may well do and it’s him taking the risk really.

In case it makes a difference, the wall was built by the previous owner of his house but after the houses were built so my understanding is that it’s wholly inside his boundary as it stands. The deeds show a line but no structure

Pier in question is the red mark below

If the wall is being modified, to the extent that it's already "moved", can't it be done so that the gate is moved to accommodate the change, rather than build on your land? Sounds like a builder looking for an easy out... one that could cause you problems only if/when you eventually go to sell. Get them to do the job properly now, rather than you have to explain to sellers in the future.

We found out when we sold out last house that there was a clause in the deeds that did not allow plants higher than 3 feet to be grown in the front gardens. All houses had plants bigger than that but because the buyers solicitor pick up on it we had to chop down and dig up all offending plants.

Imagine if when you come to sell the house the solicitor picks up on the demon 1/2 brick and you are forced to move the wall or rebuild it. Do you think your neighbour will be keen to pay for that? Especially if they are not the ones who built it.

We also had to pay 1 sovereign to the original builder/architect for his consent to the fitting of double glazing which was there when we moved in. Fortunately the builder was still in a near by town so it was easy to do but again, do you want the hassle?

Over time the boundary will be defined by where the wall is (as the boundary on the plans won't be detailed enough to spot the 100mm deviation). IIRC it's 10 or 12 years uncontested use and you can claim title.

However as the 100mm in question is inside the wall, you're probably only giving up 50mm.

I wouldn't worry about it.

I moved a fence 100mm to give the neighbour a bit more room for his extension, as a good will gesture - only as I wouldn't notice the tiny slither of land. The fence had been there 22 years, so under no obligation to make any changes.

https://flic.kr/p/2kTaFBT

Can’t seem to get image to work but here’s the link

I’m the plot at the bottom and the pier in question is circled in red.

I’m not particularly worried about the boundary really - perhaps I can add “the boundary shall remain at the inside face of the wall as it stood on 16/4/21”?

I’m more concerned about becoming liable for the wall years down the line because a tiny bit of it is on my “land”

Can't the builder find another way, add a steel box section or I beam on your neighbour's side? There's other ways to make a brick pier stronger, up to and including doing without the pier and perhaps therefore the gates, that don't involve causing worry over boundary issues. I'd politely say no.

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

I’m the plot at the bottom and the pier in question is circled in red.

I'd tell him to knock some of his front wall down and widen the gate that way! Surely as easy as building into your property. It's not like he's short of space - ruddy chancers!! 🙂

Circled in yellow...
[img] [/img]

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/27/drawing-the-line-on-boundaries/

As above, not your problem and absolutely not difficult for them to solve within their own property.

(though fwiw, if that wall follows a boundary colour me surprised, I'd guess the slight kink leaves a bit of the neighbour's land your side of the wall, that or it's almost entirely on your land already for easy access to the garage and the only bit that's the neighbour's is that last peir.)

I’m more concerned about becoming liable for the wall years down the line because a tiny bit of it is on my “land”

Well, if you're worried about it, so might a future buyer be. Stop being so amenable, their builder should sort out their mistake using their land. Basically, what the muffin man says.

i guess my natural position is to help out where the request is something id ask for myself - in this case, he's asking to use 10cm of ground which is inside my hedge at a corner of the garden i only stand in when we're chatting over the fence. its of absolutely no consequence to me beyond possible future issues id like to to take sensible steps to mitigate. this is a neighbor who chipped in a grand for the fence in the back garden earlier this year when it fell down despite it being my fence (i didn't ask - he offered) so saying no based on "not my problem" doesn't sit right

paton
Free Membe https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/27/drawing-the-line-on-boundaries/Posted 18 minutes ago
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this is helpful thanks

this is a neighbor who chipped in a grand for the fence in the back garden earlier this year when it fell down despite it being my fence (i didn’t ask – he offered) so saying no based on “not my problem” doesn’t sit right

There's no question to ask then really - not sure I'd document it though. That would flag it up to any future buyer. Just let him crack on and it'll be something 'that's always been like that'.

i'm leaning towards - write it down, sign it, we both keep a copy but no strong urge to register it with land registry, rather keep it in the back pocket in case of future ****s moving in on either side

It's simple, he builds on your land it becomes yours and your responsibility.
Can't see a problem if you are agreeable to it.

There’s no question to ask then really – not sure I’d document it though. That would flag it up to any future buyer. Just let him crack on and it’ll be something ‘that’s always been like that’.

At last some sense spoken.

Sound like a good neighbour. I'd still be up for getting the builder to sort it within the existing borders... if they've fluffed up, they should be sorting it properly without relying on your good will.

dont think anyones fluffed up beyond trying to hang a pretty big gate on a pier that wasnt built to do so (the wall has been in place 10 or more years) - if the gate wasn't already fabricated, clearly they would be building on their side and making the gate smaller (its a metal thing of modern design rather than timber)

It's His problem, not yours! It's all very well being mighty neighbourly about it, but his "agreement" would have solicitors priapic at the though of helping to sort it out.
Get an agreement written up by professionals, at his expense. If he doesn't like that idea he can rebuild the wall.
You'll soon find out how neighbourly he is....

The land registry only* deals with 'general boundaries' not the precise legal boundary which is usually a very expensive thing to determine through the courts.
Depending on the scale of the original Ordnance Survey detail a 0.5m line on the title plan has a tolerance of around ±30cm on the ground.
I'd either let him build it or not but wouldn't be too concerned about Paperwork as over time he'd gain adverse possession rights through occupying the land anyway.
I think if you wanted to allow him to use the but of land but stop him claiming ownership you could grant a licence to occupy the land with a pier that could end should the wall be rebuilt again in the future.
IANAL though so as suggested above if you are concerned then take legal advice.

*There is such a thing as a determined boundary but they are expensive, involve surveyors and plans to a high tolerance. From memory there are only a handful of such things in the whole country.

It’s simple, he builds on your land it becomes yours and your responsibility.

Not really.

How would you prove ownership of that 10cm section of land down the line?
Plans won't be accurate to that level.
A solicitor would assume the whole wall belongs to whoever is responsible for that boundary.

Surely if you're worried about responsibility lease him the land (as mentioned above somewhere) for a peppercorn rent. Make it a 10 year lease with option to extend, proviso is the return to original size when lease is up. Or sell him that patch for the going rate.

Bloody hell , other than making sure the upkeep of the wall was his responsibility, as it appears you have a good relationship with him just let him crack on. Live for the moment , not worry about things later on when you may/ may not want to sell. I cant imagine for a minute a future buyer would even notice or care about the pier.........
We are just discussing a single pier here and not the whole wall aren't we ?