[Closed] AV Chat - Before I click buy... audiophiles help!?

Can't help with your query directly (as I'm not entirely sure I follow what you're asking TBH), but I'm a big fan of Yamaha receivers and you'll not got far wrong with that.

Thanks for the vote of confidence for Yamaha - I guess I'm just asking if there seems a big discrepancy between what you'll get sound quality wise around that price point for an av amp vs a more traditional amp as I won't be using many of the AV features.

Thanks

How many speakers are you planning to connect to it? If it's just a stereo pair Yamaha make some really nice stereo network receivers with digital inputs.

The Yamaha AV amps are great but the build quality is what suffers at that price level - they're all plastic. The network receivers looks solidly made with a lovely retro look for the same money

£400 for the bundle -
https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/bundle/12636&source=Froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_campaign=Froogle&utm_content=bundle-12636?gclid=CNKhxPyU88wCFdYK0wod****K1g

I'm in the same boat and looking around £300. This one is currently top of the list: http://m.richersounds.com/#!/product/DENO-AVRX2200-BLK
Also looking at the Yamaha..

Just 2 speakers at the moment - terraced house - average size room.

Are traditional amps a bit of a pain when connected to TV or do you just have it connected via a jack all the time or can you still use hdmi?

I love the retro look so thats up my street - shame those dali's aren't the walnut versions.. I think RS would match that deal though!

+1 for Yamaha, always been really inpredsed by their audio stuff. I listen to the dalis a few years ago and ended up spending a bit more on some Kef, iQ I think

The amps in the cheap Denon systems have always been very capable indeed.

I only use 2 channels - for AV I feed the TV form all my HDMI sources and then take the optical output form the TV into the digital input of my Tact pre-amp.

You could also take a digital feed form an HDMI switchign box, but the advantage of taking it from the TV is that it seems takes into account the processing time of the TV (upscaling, etc) and so there are less lipsync issues.

If you take an analogue feed form your set-top box or DVD for example they can be quite a bit of sync issues.

I prefer high-quality 2 channel, and the money spent on a good channel amp vs a multichannel one should yield better 2 channel performance.

Hey Turnerguy thanks for the input - but you've lost me I'm afraid - what would I need to put the TV via to not get lipsync issues? is your tact pre-amp a separate bit of kit?

My Tact preamp is a premaplifier with a digital input, but any amp with an input would do - either digital/toslink but otherwise you could use a DAC to convert the digital from the TV into analogue to feed your amp.

Some AV amps have an audio delay function so you can add a delay to compensate for the time the TV/other bits take to perform additional processing to the signal, like upscaling.

I just sold my mates Denon AV amp for £50 which had HDMI switching and the ability to add audio delay. Seems ot sound OK but the requirements for AV seem to be different than audio as it all dynamics and you have a centre channel to compensate for poor stereo performance.

Witness those Bose systems that sound quite OK when playing a movie but are pants for playing music.

Are traditional amps a bit of a pain when connected to TV or do you just have it connected via a jack all the time or can you still use hdmi?

That Yamaha amp has an Optical (sometimes called SPDIF) digital input - connect your Blu-Ray, Sky box, etc etc to your TV as normal with HDMI and then take an Optical cable from the TV to the amp. If your TV doesn't have an optical audio output you could it will probably have an analogue output and you could use that.

They have some fancier models if you want to spend more.

a) my Yamaha amp has the ability to add a delay for any audio sync issues (as does the TV come to that) and,

b) across two Yamaha AV receivers, two TVs, and more sources than I care to count I've never had to touch that setting.

I seriously wouldn't be fannying about with audio return from the TV and optical cables and analogue feeds and the like, it's pointless and overcomplicated and you're making a rod for your back. Get the Yamaha receiver and a handful of Amazon Basics HDMI leads, plug your sources into it via HDMI, run HDMI out to the TV and stop worrying about it.

I prefer high-quality 2 channel, and the money spent on a good channel amp vs a multichannel one should yield better 2 channel performance.

Horses for courses. As you said,

Seems ot sound OK but the requirements for AV seem to be different than audio

The OP is watching TV and movies from their laptop, and potentially potentially adding streamed audio in the future. It's hardly reference audio. Even if you're only driving two speakers, in fact [i]especially[/i] if you're only driving two speakers, I'd want something that could downmix a multi-channel source to Plain Old Stereo in some sort of sensible manner.

as it all dynamics and you have a centre channel to compensate for poor stereo performance.

That's really not what a centre channel is for.

A dedicated two channel amp WILL sound better with music, but for TV/Movies and Streaming, an AV Receiver like the RX-V679 will be ideal. Yamaha sound great and are very reliable so it'll be a nice system. If you found some speakers with bi-amp inputs, you could use four channels to get some more grunt.

b) across two Yamaha AV receivers, two TVs, and more sources than I care to count I've never had to touch that setting.

Some sources also have delay settings - the Sky+ box does for example. Like you I've never had to adjust them
but lipsync on *some* channels from the Sky+ is often way out. (since all the delays adjust everything can't do anything about it).

Channel 4+1 is regularly way way out.

I seriously wouldn't be fannying about with audio return from the TV and optical cables and analogue feeds and the like, it's pointless and overcomplicated and you're making a rod for your back.

for TV/Movies and Streaming, an AV Receiver like the RX-V679 will be ideal.

I'll respectfully disagree. An audio cable from the TV to the amp is about as simple as you can get - there's no 'fannying about'.

On the AV amp you'd not be using 5 of the 7 amplifier circuits, speaker outputs, HDMi inputs (all of which suck up parts of the build cost) or any of the surround codecs (each of which has a licence cost for the manufacturer). It makes sense to spend money on stuff you'll actually use - the 2 channel amp will have much better build quality (heavy metal case, metal knobs, etc etc) and much more will have been spent on the amplifier parts you'll actually use.

Personally, I'd seriously think about adding an extra speaker and using an AV amp. Unless you have near perfect speaker placement and listening position using a stereo pair for TV can sound a bit unnatural/dislocated. Adding a centre speaker makes a big difference. However, if you really are just planning on stereo then a stereo amp makes sense - you can always eBay it and buy something else if you change your mind later.

but lipsync on *some* channels from the Sky+ is often way out.

I'd be chasing Sky for a new box there I reckon.

Depending on what audio output you can get from your TV this Marantz unit might suit you?

[url= https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/18537/marantz-m-cr511-black-hi-fi-mini-system-w-wi-fi-amp-bluetooth/ ]Marantz M-CR511[/url]

I've got an older, CD-based version of the same thing connected to Dali Xensor 5's and it sounds great in stereo. I use a Gramafon for Spotify but that model has Spotify Connect built in. If you can get an optical or analog out from the TV it will accept either input...

I'll respectfully disagree. An audio cable from the TV to the amp is about as simple as you can get - there's no 'fannying about'.

Ok, perhaps. But it's still pointless in this situation and, if we're debating quality, an avoidable extra step in the audio path. Why on earth would you buy an amp for AV purposes and then send audio to the TV just to send it straight back to the amp (potentially having the TV do downmixing in the process)?

Audio return is a handy workaround when you don't have an AV receiver, where you're using the TV as the AV "hub." Where you're sending a TV audio signal to a soundbar say, or to an existing stereo hifi. But if you're in the process of buying an amplifier expressly to be part of an AV solution then it's madness to go down that road.

This is exactly what an AV receiver is designed to do, accept multiple sources and route the video and audio to a display and speakers. At this price point I reckon you'll get a bigger gain in quality by having the speakers and the source directly connected to each other via the receiver than you would by buying a similar priced two-channel amp that's had its audio signal downmixed and generally frobbed about with by the TV. (And TBH, any gain / loss either way is probably going to be negligible).

Then there's other niceties to consider beyond just audio quality if you're running HDMI throughout. Like, if I switch on my Blu-ray player, it wakes up the amp and TV and switches everything over to the correct channels. If I switch off the amp, the last-used source is passed through to the TV and the audio automatically comes through the TV speakers instead of the main surround. And any remote control I happen to have to hand will then operate the volume on the TV or amp automatically depending on whether the amp is switched on. The sheer simplicity of operation over the interconnect hell that was my previous system is a joy that's worth the price of admission on its own. I'd take that any day over worrying about whether the buttons are metal or plastic.

And if you're still not convinced, in six months time when you realise how great it is to watch movies through a decent set of speakers and want to buy a couple more to turn it into a surround setup, you'll be screwed and will have to buy an AV receiver anyway.

Oh, and in case it's not clear, I should perhaps have said:

If the OP's question was "what stereo" I'd absolutely agree with you.

Some TVs have more input lag than others, cuased by the TVs processing overhead. In those cases you owuld be using the sync delay.

That's really not what a centre channel is for.

I thought it was primarily to place vocals centrally, which I have no problem with on my 2 channel system.

I also get to hear effects to the side and behind sometimes, as is the magic of a good setup 🙂 In particular Predator throws lots of sounds behind.

My mate has a surround setup with a decent sub (that I sold him) but I still prefer the 2 channel, the surround is just a distraction most of the time so you can say 'Wow' a lot. Bit like 3D.

simons_nicolai-uk - Member

Some sources also have delay settings - the Sky+ box does for example. Like you I've never had to adjust them
but lipsync on *some* channels from the Sky+ is often way out. (since all the delays adjust everything can't do anything about it).

Channel 4+1 is regularly way way out.

I get the same thing with some Channel 4 sub channels, I think there's a problem with their broadcast. Sometimes there's weird frame dropping/stuttering as well, mostly noticeable on panning shots.

That's with both a Sky box and a Freesat HD one BTW.

I have the Yamaha RX675, it's a good Home Cinema amp, loads of settings for speakers, delays, crossovers, etc.

Easy to setup with 1 HDMI between TV and Amp via ARC, if your TV supports ARC.

I'm quite impressed with the amp, it does a lot, you can configure it to give a good sound for your speaker/room setup. The sound has quite a punch to it, movies sound great, music sounds good.