[Closed] Audi S3 - quite fast!

Cancer is better. Who wants to shag aids guy?

agent007 sounds a lot like Surfmat 😆

What a fast car does get, as mentioned above, is better brakes, tyres and handling

So, if this entirely and solely a safety issue, why don't we find these items on base model shopper hatchbacks?

Following on from this, it could be asked: what is more dangerous?

Any **** of any age in a hurry in any vehicle. Barryboys in novas, powerrangers on z1s, whatever.

The terminally unaware, or anyone possessing an unknown/undeclared and serious medical condition (epilepsy for instance).

Price point

So, if this entirely and solely a safety issue, why don't we find these items on base model shopper hatchbacks?

Because people wont pay extra for them.

Witness the god awful tyres you can buy that still meet the various minimum standards, but increase breaking distances massively, decreased grip on cornering etc.

You can spend 30 quid on a tyre, or you can spend 100 quid on a tyre. The 100 quid tyres will be dramatically better by an objective and measurable amount, and could make the difference between crashing or not, yet a lot of people will not pay the extra because they are ignorant and thinkthat if theh dont speed they are safe.

Perhaps I could rephrase that.

If it is solely a safety issue that you as a responsible driver are concerned with, why don't you just fit bigger brakes & decent tyres to your <insert-not-massive-bhp-car-here> ?

I think fast cars are safer, but thats not why I buy them. For me the safety reasons are a nice side benefit.

Putting aside the fact that no such car can actually be bought , a car with a low power engine, but that has the brakes tyres, chassis etc of a high powered on, would still not be able to do any of the following:-

- accelerate quickly-there are no laws limiting acceleration
- sound nice
- be as 'special' as an item of engineering.

Anyway, why does anyone need to justify it, its not against the law to own a fast car(yet)

The whole ' why do you need a fast car' argument is starting to sound more and more like the why do you need 160mm travel front and rear on your mountain bike, it because I want it, its available to me, and I can afford it, buying one and using one is not against the law, so why shouldnt I?

Any **** of any age in a hurry in any vehicle. Barryboys in novas, powerrangers on z1s, whatever.

The terminally unaware, or anyone possessing an unknown/undeclared and serious medical condition (epilepsy for instance).

By that reasoning we should not be able travel any faster than at a quick jog. Just in case.

Anyway, why does anyone need to justify it, its not against the law to own a fast car(yet)

That's never been at issue on the thread. The issue is driving fast and driving in excess of the speed limit (where the difference is that the speed limit is only the speed you must not exceed ever on that road and not the speed it is legally safe to drive at).

Liked the "red socks" comparison - so on the money!!

Couple of key issues here - appreciating, liking, wanting and ultimately owning a fast car does [b]not[/b] make you into some dangerous drag strip wannabe, in just the same way that owning a bike does not make you an old lady hitting, red light jumping, pedestrian scaring "cyclist" (god I HATE the term cyclist too).

It's pretty comical that for a site with so many hand wringy lefties who are against prejudice and casting aspersions against a group based on a few, that they can then do exactly that and make judgements based on their own prejudices.

As has been said, a high performance car like an S3 has better brakes, better suspension and ultimately a better range of useful power delivery to get you out of a tight spot when needed. I know that in our TT 1.8 225 (mapped to around 270), I feel much more secure in the knowledge there is tons of grip, braking power and secure road holding. Does that make me or the wife into some wanton aggressive driver? No.

Just as most of us don't "need" a carbon framed 160mm bike honed on the EWS (or have the skillset to push it to the limit of it's capability) but accept people like nice things, so too should we accept that people like nice fast cars - ownership of these cars doesn't turn you into a lunatic driver and it's a gross prejudice to think that it would.

I actually feel a little bit dirty now for being hand wringy and offended on behalf of someone other than myself. I'm off to read the guardian and socialist worker now.

Weren't the 1.8 TTs all recalled because of several deaths caused by massive and unpredictable lift off over steer?

yup, hence them all getting the wee spoiler on the back and a suspension tweak iirc. Don't know if the oversteer was unpredictable, but it was massive enough to launch a few backwards off of alpine roads

EDIT: Must've been 10 years+ since all that

Weren't the 1.8 TTs all recalled because of several deaths caused by massive and unpredictable lift off over steer?

A lot (including ours) were recalled for coil pack issues (like a huge number of other VAG 1.8 engines) but other than that, nothing to my knowledge and ours has been regularly in at main dealer and has all documents related to that recall - I've also seen the VAG recall notification system and don't remember seeing anything like that.

It's a bloody nice car, very fast in the right situations and extremely secure feeling. So far, no kittens, robins, puppies or any other creatures have been injured in it's lifetime, at least with us.

The very first (I.e. The first few production runs) had this issue.

But wtf does it have to do with this thread

Still, since you bought up the subject of drivers, I also think on the whole that the people who own really fast cars (as proper driving machines to be driven quickly, rather than as bling, bling 'look at me' show ponies) look after and maintain their cars well, increasing safety, spend money on good tyres, increasing safety, care about improving their driving skills and road craft, again increasing safety, and are knowledgeable and interested about a whole range of motoring issues, further increasing safety. It's the ignorant drivers who dislike cars and driving, with no interest in improving their skill set you should be far more worried about I'd have thought.

Absolutely.

I bought the 1st 4WD Golf - V6 4Motion and the first thing I realised was the brakes were under powered for the engine, so they were swapped to Brembo GT, then the tyres were swapped to Pilot Sports, then as it still had a tendency to break away on the limits I stiffened it up with better anti-roll bars and firmer shocks. Massively increased the margin of safety when pushing the limit and it ended up being very controllable and just drifted sideways in a very well behaved manner which you would control. Wasn't that quick in a straight line (230 bhp after tuning), but the cornering was amazing.

But wtf does it have to do with this thread

Nothing other than the reference to one having lots of grip. It probably sounded like a troll but it wasn't meant as such.

They did add the spoiler and made some modifications to the anti-roll bar but as also pointed out, that was back when the TT was firs launched.

The suggestion was that the lift off over steer was only typically seen at high speeds (well above 70mph) and that the recall and modifications were done more to avert negative publicity than anything else.

I always thought the spoiler spoiled (pun intended) the lines.

Massively increased the margin of safety when pushing the limit and it ended up being very controllable and just drifted sideways in a very well behaved manner which you would control.

You see, this is what those of us who are getting upset are getting upset about, assuming you're doing this on public roads rather than a track.

You don't uprate a car's engine, suspension and brakes because you want to be safer. You do it because you want to 'drive at the limit'.

I always thought the spoiler spoiled (pun intended) the lines.

Fair enough! It was why it was added, a bit after market, hence why the mk 2 had the pop up spoiler

I dont own a fast car at the moment, but my brother V50 t5, with a phase 3 tuning done to it is kicking out 360bhp, his impreza is a little more now. But id much rather be in the volvo, it eats tyres,but is so much more secure on the road and inside it feels like a luxury car.
the impreza is quicker round a corner but rattles like a piggy bank. and is left for dust in a straight line.

I think the 1.8TT was recalled due to a lot more people looking like cocks on the road - wasn't it a "reconsider your choice of car" type recall?

I dont like Audi A3's. Any car that puts in the brochure that they use the brakes to help steer the car rounds corners (because otherwise it would understeer like a pig) should be avoided IMO.

Cars that can go fast in a straight line are dull.

You can drive dangerously in a cheap car or an expensive one, a slow one or a fast one.

@dan - I think the A3 Quattro is only available in 3 doors yes ? Ideally I'd like a 4dr.

deadlydarcy - Member
I think the 1.8TT was recalled due to a lot more people looking like cocks on the road - wasn't it a "reconsider your choice of car" type recall?
POSTED 27 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Apparently the S1 is no slouch either.

I think it is, yes. Not sure if they do the Sportrack version in Quattro form though.

Edit : just googled, and there are some newer 5 door A3 Quattros.

Cars that can go fast in a straight line are dull.

Really?

Don't you mean only go [i]fast [/i]in a straight line

And even then power's still fun. Can't imagine a drag car being boring!

Corners are just more fun

I think the 1.8TT was recalled due to a lot more people looking like cocks on the road - wasn't it a "reconsider your choice of car" type recall?

Touche!!! 🙂

Actually looking at trading it in ATM due to impending baby arrival, maybe an S3 is one to look at..... definitely ticks all the performance boxes as well as a bit more practicality.

By that reasoning we should not be able travel any faster than at a quick jog. Just in case

If you're a **** in a hurry then I'd be very much happy indeed if you were to only travel everywhere at a quick jog. Can't help feeling you've deliberately missed the point though...

molgrips - Member
No matter how good you think you are, no matter how safe you think it is, please just don't **** about on public roads. [u]One day you will make a mistake.[/u]

Like jumping the overtaking "queue"?

If you're a **** in a hurry then I'd be very much happy indeed if you were to only travel everywhere at a quick jog. Can't help feeling you've deliberately missed the point though...

😆

I can't help feeling you're trying to ask the same question I did earlier, but by making it a statement and adding extra swearing. 😉

I really should know better than to post in here, but...

speed is almost always a contributing factor in accidents

I drive a fairly slow car, but I do ride a motorbike which tends to make me a little more wary of what other road users are doing. And the thing that I'm most wary of are people arguing, telling off their kids, on the phone, etc. Personally, the few times I've seen/had a near miss (not that near, fortunately) have involved someone suddenly slamming on the brakes for a turn they missed, pulling out without looking, or suddenly turning without indicating. Unfortunately these people think they're safe drivers because of the widely-held belief that only people who exceed the speed limit/drive fast cars/ride motorbikes are dangerous.

Source:

Unfortunately these people think they're safe drivers because of the widely-held belief that only people who exceed the speed limit/drive fast cars/ride motorbikes are dangerous

Steve, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately because of the government taking the lazy option when it comes to road policing then speed has become the one thing they seem to focus on above all others. The constant anti speed propaganda has brainwashed many (including people on here) into believing that provided they don't speed then that makes them a good driver. This couldn't be further from the truth of course.

I'd far rather my kids get into a car with a driver who is observant, confident yet often breaks the posted speed limit than someone who dithers, knows little about cars or driving, has poor observation, yet who never speeds.

It's also worth bearing in mind that someone driving faster than you, in a fast car may just be a better driver in a more capable vehicle?

To compare with biking, my mum's not confident on a bike so for her riding fireroad would be a big adventure. She thinks it's crazy and dangerous when I go out to the Peak District to tackle Jacobs Ladder on my XC hardtail. I'm confident on a bike doing XC but think that people doing gap jumps in Morzine on downhill rigs are crazy and are putting themselves in danger. But for these people gap jumps are the norm and they feel perfectly confident doing them.

It's all about skill and perception - same with driving.

speed is almost always a contributing factor in accidents

Stationary objects tend not to crash so yes, it is normally a factor.

Agent007 are you in fact Surfmatt because surely they cannot be 2 people who are so awesome on this planet.

Pimp mentioned the IAM. The problem with giving people membership of such a club is that it makes them think they're better drivers when in fact they're governed by the same rules of physics and reaction times as everybody else. Learned reflexes help but not much when the unexpected happens.

[url= http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Audi-R8-driver-involved-fatal-crash-denies/story-19983763-detail/story.html ]IAM R8 m**der[/url]

Do performance cars road cars stop better? A little in the dry but many are no better than a standard Clio in the wet and will aquaplane before the Clio.

Do performance road cars handle better? IME, all too often, no. They might have more grip but performance road tyres are vicious things and some high performance cars suffer limited steering lock. The big difference between race tyres and road tyres is what happens at the limit - the race tyres continue to offer grip at high slip angles, road tyres break away then snap back. Driving a rally car accurately when very sideways on Michelin TB 15s was very easy, accurately drifting a road car on road tyres is not.

Accelerating out of trouble, nope, accelerating was what got you into trouble.

So go to a track day; enter a race, rally, autotest or whatever, you'll soon find your "performance road car" is quite a handful and doesn't perform very well even when there's nothing coming the other way, nothing pulling out, no pedestrians, no cyclists, no diesel on the road, no white lines, no kerbs... . It'll probably make you slower on the public roads, not faster.

I'd argue that a golf gti handles better and stops faster than a standard golf, and that's the type of car we are talking about really, not a Ferrari / R8.
Of course , the bigger brakes / tyres etc are there to control things at 100mph, and indeed that sort of speed is why people buy them. However, that doesn't prevent them being safer at 50mph than a car with rock hard tyres and tiny inefficient brakes.

I'd also love to know what kind of situations are requiring high power card to get out of. I can only think of ones that the higher power has caused me to get into!

Bigger brakes don't stop the car sooner, they're only there to cope with more the more frequent stopping that's possible with the more powerful engine. All modern car braking systems are capable of maintaining the car near the limit of adhesion from the point you stamp on the brakes to the moment it stops, even at 100mph. Check out the stopping distances published for cars, you'll find some very humble ones that do very well. And some that do very badly, the Land Rover Discovery for example (M&S tyres).

Wider tyres will make things worse in the wet especially as they wear.

I can't find a stopping distances chart, certainly not an actual one, just published figures. Any links? If not, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Narrower tyres being better I the wet,, I'm assuming you mean aqua planing? If so, you have to be driving like a proper tit to aqua plane any car. Non aqua planing speeds, anything other than snow/ice, I'll take the extra rubber thanks.

An example, a big people carrier thing on relatively narrow tyres stops better than a sporty Mini.

iolo - Member

Apparently the S1 is no slouch either.

I would quite like to have a drive in one.
For the record, the little M135i is quite swift too. The g/f has bought one and it can get a trot on. Very different drive to my old 911 though where you felt the car stick more to the road. The wee M pitches about a bit more but boy does it go around bends well.

Sorry, but I couldn't work out model type or the size from that video. Minis go from underpowered rubbish shopping carts to fast hot hatches. Which one was that?
Ditto the Mazda (close up of front badge so I know what make it was), I know nothing else about it and I have no idea what that test means.

As a mostly vulnerable road user - pedestrian and cyclist I'm so glad that there's so many ace drivers on here [i]making progress[/i], [i]drifting round corners[/i]

confident yet often breaks the posted speed limit

Tinybits - I looks like a Mk2 Mini Cooper S to me.

Not sure what the video was all about though.

Braking tests generally demonstrate that performance road cars don't stop better than more staid models. When the French magazine Sport Auto did performance and braking tests on supercars, they included a 150DCi Renault Scenic for comparison purposes. On the 200-0kmh brake test the Scenic was only bettered by one of the supercars. Well it's either Sport Auto or Match when I visit the dentist.

No matter how 'safe' you think your fast car is, by driving it faster you are removing some of that safety.

You could have the best brakes in the world but it still takes you half a second or more to apply them. At 90 on a B road this is 20 metres. The difference between life and death is often inches.

If you wanted to be safe, you wouldn't drive fast. You want to drive fast because you enjoy it - all this waffle about better brakes and suspension is just an attempt at excusing yourself.

I also want to drive fast. I love it, and I've done it. I just don't any more, because I've realised how much more dangerous it is than driving sensibly. I want to reduce the odds of my accidental death as much as possible. If I want to push things to the limit I'll do it on my MTB where I'll only be doing 20mph and if I come off I'll just bruise.