[Closed] At the current rate of deterioration in the global weather systems patterns!

Don't confuse weather with climate. Mankind has lived through far worse than that we have experienced, though not with seven billion people and a resource hungry advanced society...

warm and wet, the local environment is very green and bushy.

Probably about 5 minutes

I expect there will always parts of the planet that remain habitable, that's why the planet is still teeming with life despite constant climate change over millions of years. Adapt, migrate or die.

Is the weather the local manifestation of the climates global condition?

Lunchtime, best guess.

Humanity will survive because it has, up until their extinction the same could be said for the dinosaurs.

Here's a question, if humanity has been around for well over 100,000 years in it's current form, why is it only now that we are seeing such population growth?

Every culture that has developed has had writing, however our records only go back a few thousand years.

What exactly have we been doing all this time, sitting about doing nothing, going against out very natures?

I suspect Earth will always be inhabitable by "something" until the Sun dies.

Just not us.

Here's a question, if humanity has been around for well over 100,000 years in it's current form, why is it only now that we are seeing such population growth?

Exponential growth + advances in medicine and agriculture.

Every culture that has developed has had writing, however our records only go back a few thousand years.

40,800 year old "records"...

[img] [/img]
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120614-neanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/

Climate and weather are oft confused.

If it rains today are we in for flooding or if it's hot and dry tomorrow is that the absolute proof of global warming and the desertification of the northern hemisphere? There's plenty of evidence of heating and cooling cycles. But they last hundreds of years and take time to manifest themselves. A few years of ropey weather and el niño la nina (?) don't prove or disprove anything.

How much time do we think we have until the planet is uninhabitable?

It won't be the climate that will kill us, but peoples incessant whining about it 😉

Have a look at the ice core data. Isolate the last 10,000 years is there an obvious trend? It's going to take a lot more study and time before we can make a truly scientifically (devoid of sponsorships influence) statement about changes in weather patterns.

[url] http://www.mos.org/soti/icecore/studies.html [/url]

Good point onehundredthidiot, do you know if any work has been done to look for any correlations between this work and what it shows and the movement of the stars or other astral bodies?

Can you explain the difference between climate and weather, I thought that climate was the global system of weather over a certain prolonged period that effects the weather conditions that occur for short periods?

With the amount of rain over the last 5 months Sheffield is already uninhabitable.

Oh, and any mis-informed internet hero that claims that what we are going through is "just a cycle" is so unbelievably wrong that I'd disregard anything they ever post on the forum in the future.

Lots of love from someone who has done 4 years of studying climate and geology. And I'm not going to post again on this thread because I know that it'll get bogged down in half informed opinions that "prove" me wrong.

do you know if any work has been done to look for any correlations between this work and what it shows and the movement of the stars or other astral bodies?

Are you suggesting that climate change is because Earth is a Pisces and we are in the Age of Aquarius, causing astrological disharmony?

How much time do we think we have until the planet is uninhabitable?

Here's a question, if humanity has been around for well over 100,000 years in it's current form, why is it only now that we are seeing such population growth?

and the movement of the stars or other astral bodies?

What is the main focus of the thread ?

You seem to have the attention span of a Labrador puppy.

I think he is off his pills again.

Or possibly on them. 😀

Can you explain the difference between climate and weather, I thought that climate was the global system of weather over a certain prolonged period that effects the weather conditions that occur for short periods?

Lots of love from someone who has done 4 years of studying climate and geology. And I'm not going to post again on this thread because I know that it'll get bogged down in half informed opinions that "prove" me wrong.

Your right, it's best not to use the knowledge you gained from four years of study.

Would be a shame to enlighten anyone with it.

I think he is off his pills again.

Or possibly on them.

Nice.

😐

Hello Munrobiker, yes that is some quite extensive flooding they are seeing, the major problems / threats are of course food production or supply and disease.

There are also a lot of other potential outcomes or side effects from the weather that it would be hard to prepare for, however with the recession and the state of the councils / governments due to lack of organizational skills, this can only get worse.

2 years ago I spoke about what I felt was an important fact, that we are moving into a different sector of space that will have slightly different laws and electromagnetic characteristics.

Our world will of course have to change to adhere to these new laws or this changing astral environment. However we have more important things to concern ourselves with like the Olympics and Eastenders!

2 years ago I spoke about what I felt was an important fact, that we are moving into a different sector of space that will have different laws.

Which laws change in different sectors of space? And how are these sectors defined?

Nicely constructed argument there. Pretty much the " my ball your not playing" school of discussion.

In my understanding weather is what happens on a day to day basis, climate is a long term and effectively averaged weather pattern, averaged for night/day and the seasons. So days weeks and seasons compared to decades and longer.

Lots of evidence for cyclic patterns, whether we are in one and at what stage, well I'm surprised that someone can make a definitive statement about that, and if we are warming then what is causing it and how extreme will it be is obviously a matter of much discussion.

To my mind the data sets are too incomplete to be able to use past evidence to predict future trends. But then I may be just a fool on the Internet.

I make no statements one way or the other just would rather people thought about things a little.

2 years ago I spoke about what I felt was an important fact, that we are moving into a different sector of space that will have slightly different laws and electromagnetic characteristics.
Our world will of course have to change to adhere to these new laws or this changing astral environment.

"citation needed"

Explain yourself.

However we have more important things to concern ourselves with like the [b]Olympics and Eastenders![/b]

Ah the old "I'm so superior, and I only sound like a tin foil hat wearing loony because you watch telly" defence.

Priceless.

Why not just go all the way and use the conspiracy loon's favourite term "sheeple" 🙄

Do we know for certain if our sun effects the weather on this planet?

Read an interesting report on the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project.
Partly funded by climate sceptics, such as the Heartland Institute.

Prof Richard Muller, a physicist and climate change sceptic who founded the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (Best) project, said he was surprised by the findings. "We were not expecting this, but as scientists, it is our duty to let the evidence change our minds."

He added that he now considers himself a "converted sceptic" and his views had undergone a "total turnaround" in a short space of time.

"Our results show that the average temperature of the Earth's land has risen by 2.5F over the past 250 years, including an increase of 1.5 degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases,"

-- http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jul/29/climate-change-sceptics-change-mind

To my mind the data sets are too incomplete to be able to use past evidence to predict future trends.

I suspect that will always be the case though. No matter how much past data you have, predicting the future is always a "best guess".

FWIW the Berkeley project used "a collection of 14.4m land temperature observations from 44,455 sites across the world dating back to 1753"

Do we know for certain if our sun effects the weather on this planet?

Yup. When it's out its warmer.

Well it would be bloody cold without it.

Do we know for certain if our sun effects the weather on this planet?

???

Fairly sure it is responsible for it being "sunny" sometimes?

Is there any evidence or correlation between solar flares and seismic activity also adverse or extreme weather conditions / patterns?

Is there any evidence or correlation between solar flares and seismic activity also adverse or extreme weather conditions / patterns?

Are all these question rhetorical, or can you just not be bothered to find these things out for yourself ?

Are all these question rhetorical, or can you just not be bothered to find these things out for yourself ?

I suspect they are leading questions which will result in a quite extraordinary leap of logic in just a few posts...

I suspect they are leading questions which will result in a quite extraordinary leap of [b]logic [/b]in just a few posts...

You're being very optimistic !

Only takes one monkey to piss in the drinking water and ruin it for everyone!

Do try to behave yourselves in other people's threads now children!

I've asked questions you have chosen to ignore for some reason.

That's not exactly adult behaviour is it ?

I thinking something along the lines of:

[i]"Well if standing next to this fire makes me hot then clearly another fire* that is 24,938,000,000,000 miles away will also make me hot."
[/i]
😀

.

(* [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri ]Proxima Centauri[/url])

nealglover - Member

I've asked questions you have chosen to ignore for some reason.

That's not exactly adult behaviour is it ?

Point taken angry man child, but I do not consider you to be a mature adult, more a stroppy, insecure child, trapped in an adult body.

Hope that goes some way to explaining why I do not attempt to communicate with you!

Only takes one monkey to piss in the drinking water and ruin it for everyone!

Do try to behave yourselves in other people's threads now children!

People politely asking you to explain some of your [i]"less mainstream"[/i] ideas and offering some critical analysis is not "misbehaving" IMO.

But I'll now leave this thread before you decide to get the Mods involved. 🙄

Point taken, but I do not consider you to be a mature adult, more a stroppy, insecure child, trapped in an adult body.
Hope that goes some way to explaining why I do not try to communicate with you!

Now that's very grown up isn't it.

I asked for an explanation to something you claimed.

You obviously can't answer it, maybe because you made it up, maybe because you don't understand it properly, who knows.

But rather answer the question, or admit you can't, you decide to rather pathetically try and weasel out of it.

And I'm the child somehow ?

Here's another chance to act like an adult ....

2 years ago I spoke about what I felt was an important fact, that we are moving into a different sector of space that will have slightly different laws and electromagnetic characteristics.
Our world will of course have to change to adhere to these new laws or this changing astral environment.

"citation needed"
Explain yourself.

And I'm the child somehow

You can't win because you're not on a level playing field. From what I've seen its folly to try and engage with kaesae in any serious fashion. Whether this is because he is some form of elaborate troll or whether he actually believes this stuff I wouldn't like to say.

You have been presented with idea's Graham, I could go off and present evidence in an attempt to prove what I am saying then you could do the same or simply rubbish the idea.

However if you want to go and research the ideas I have presented and contribute to the thread, that would be great, if not and everyone comes along to each thread with their own little agenda's, nothing will be accomplished but a conflict of ego's.

So I choose to simply put my idea's out there and let them be heard!

I do not feel any need to prove myself or answer to anyone, if I do so it is by my own choice and in my own time! another idea that is not quite main stream for you to grasp if you like!

[quote=kaesae] "I can't prove anything I say, so I'll just waffle on and on and pretend I'm trying to educate people to find out "the truth" for themselves"

Not what [b]literally[/b] what you said, but that's the crux of it.

Wouldn't you say.

In the words of a great man,

"I'm off to ride my bike"

You have been presented with idea's Graham, I could go off and present evidence in an attempt to collaborate what I am saying then you could do the same or simply rubbish the idea.

I'll answer that, since it is directed at me, but hopefully in a suitably polite non-argumentative way...

You haven't "presented ideas".

At best you have "vaguely hinted at possible notions", vastly outside the mainstream, then made absolutely no attempt to expand on them, explain them clearly, or even offer any vague reasoning why they might be worth considering.

However if you want to go and research the ideas I have presented and contribute to the thread, that would be great,

So if I said to you that I believe climate change was caused by a stealth invasion of transdimensional quantum mice - would you go off and independently research that before replying? Or would you ask me to explain it just a little first?

I'm not trying to educate people, I'm trying to get people to move away from the argumentative egotistical attitude that leads people to perpetually attempt to prove themselves, by opposing anything that is proposed.

What I am trying to do is cultivate an environment of stability through mutual respect and cooperation.

So that we can in fact make some kind of progress on any given subject or topic to be studied.

It is obvious that something is going on and it is getting worse by the day, if you want to argue over who is right who is wrong, how will that help us understand the situation?

would you go off and independently research that before replying? Or would you ask me to explain it just a little first?

The research process would be along the lines of :

Alex Jones
Jesse Ventura
David Icke
Truthseeker.co.uk

Very well Graham I am heading out and when I return I will attempt to elaborate on what I am saying.

Does anyone on STW have any knowledge of astronomy?

Given that climate scientists are now saying that this summer's events are the result of climate change - which is the first time that they have ever attributed weather events on climate change - is pretty significant in my book.

I spent a fair while studying such things in a masters, with guest lectures by members of the IPCC who gave some pretty convincing and worrying arguments. I don't know how long it will be until the effects start to really bite, but I don't expect it to be that long. It isn't the UK that I would be most worried about either, but mass migration from an increasingly inhospitable belt of the planets surface is going to cause huge social unrest and potentially aggressive actions by foreign nations.

my prediction for the global climate is a violent swing from hi C02 to a massively oxygen rich atmosphere with Ray Harryhausenesque giant scorpions, spiders and wasps .

Considering that a short time ago, in geological refferenced time, the earth was covered in ice, man made global warming may just turn out to be the savour of the species. If you consider how reliant we are now on intensive farming to produce enough food to support our huge population, and how dependant on our energy systems we are for survival of the vast majority of that population (clean water, heating, etc), then even a small ice age would decimate the human population.

even a small ice age would decimate the human population.

True. But being underwater isn't that great for survival either 😀

Is there any evidence or correlation between solar flares and seismic activity also adverse or extreme weather conditions / patterns?

Does anyone have the first clue what Kaesae is on about?

Does anyone have the first clue what Kaesae is on?

😉

Why is Greenland so called when it's clearly covered in ice?

To OP:

It is obvious that something is going on and it is getting worse by the day, if you want to argue over who is right who is wrong, how will that help us understand the situation?

Isn't that exactly what will help us understand the situation? Well, maybe not actual [i]arguing[/i], but finding out who's right and who's wrong?

There was no industrial pollution then.

[i]Non sequitur[/i]: "Matches don't cause fires. Fires happened long before matches were invented."

Just because past climate change happened without man's help doesn't mean recent change has nothing to do with man.

What tyres will be best for a warmer world?

Just because past climate change happened without man's help doesn't mean recent change has nothing to do with man.

the sun is a variable star, with known cycles of heat and radiation output

Yep, "known cycles" which can be measured an eliminated from the figures.

volcanism

Erm...

Global estimates of the annual present-day CO2 output of the Earth’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes range from [b]0.13 to 0.44 billion metric tons (gigatons) per year[/b]
...
Anthropogenic CO2 emissions—responsible for a projected [b]35 gigatons of CO2[/b] in 2010

-- [url=

AGU.ORG "http://www.agu.org/pubs/pdf/2011EO240001.pdf"

]"Volcanic Versus Anthropogenic Carbon Dioxide", EOS, Transactions, American Geophysical Union, Vol 92 (#24), pp201-208[/url]

We are waaaay better at polluting than present-day volcanoes.

if the weather is what happens day to day..

but the climate is the averaging of the weather over a very long time..

isnt the actual argument between scientists how long this averaging period should be, given that not too long ago in the earths history their was an ice age it stands to reason that you could no doubt show anything from the same data set just by increasing / decreasing the time base used to average over..

hopefully dry & sunny tomorrow for a bike ride..

It is obvious that something is going on and it is getting worse by the day

eh?

So it's a bit rainy in the UK this summer.. it almost makes you wonder how we have gotten such a reputation for having such amazing dry weather in this country..

what else is 'going on' out of interest..?

what else is 'going on' out of interest..?

There is weather happening all over the globe. Practically every country has been affected. 😉

this is worse than I thought

I'm still trying to work out a) what a weather pattern deterioration is, and b) how one would quantify a deterioration in weather patterns once one understood what a weather pattern deterioration was.

ok.. due to recent developments I realise that I may have been too quick to mock..

having just paid a visit to the shed to bring my bike in for a late night crown race change (don't ask) I have discovered a phenomenon that I believe is directly related to this thread and may provide an answer to the OPs question..

spiders, and lots of 'em are amassing, no doubt due to the extraordinary weather pattern deterioration..
I've always trusted a good large cannibalistic resident spider to keep the numbers down.. but tonight in the shed there's an intricate network of new webs and two large new spiders [i] actually sharing a web[/i] at the opposite end of the shed to Mildred's lair..

there's a plot afoot and no mistake, and while we struggle to survive the latest onslaught of inclement weather, the arachnids are seizing the opportunity to gather in readiness for global war..

I'm all but ready to cover myself in marmite and throw myself at their slim mercy..

sorry Kaesae.. I forgot to apply [i]this[/i] rule before it was too late for me.. 😥

[img] [/img]

Have a look at this so you can put what is being said into perspective.

6:45 seconds in for a couple of minutes you can see the shape of the milky way

As our solar system and planet enters different sectors inside the milky way, it is affected by different fields of energy relative to the position of astral bodies in that sector, at times these bodies in conjunction with one another can bombard the earth with certain types of energy, this energy is absorbed by the earths core, which in turn increases the heat of the core.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_core

This increased heating of the core enables the planet to alter it's shape by also altering the magnetic and electromagnetic properties of the core and as a result the shape of the crust more easily. This in turn enables the planet to not only deal with the additional energy from it's current position or close proximity to other astral bodies in the milky way, but also to realign it's self to the sun and thus the rest of the milky way.

Look at seismic activity globally as well as extreme weather, these are all indications of changes taking place not only globally but also inside the core of the earth and as such I would argue that these are not caused simply by global warming but much larger scale external factors.

For our solar system to pass through the milky way without being destroyed, it would have to be aligned to the milky way and the milky ways stellar procession. However this alignment would need to be a continual process as the milky way is a constantly changing form.

So I propose that is the cause of our current climatic change and seismic activity. This is what I believe is happening!

seems to me a lot of people make a good living looking at climate data and going 'hmm', whichever side of the fence they fall on. beard stroking optional, i understand.
the met office can't tell you if it will rain today in exeter with any degree of certainty despite being in exeter.
the atomic weapons establishment gets it own, 'personalised' weather forecast from the met office.
you're right, there is 'something' going on.
there'll definitely be weather, especially at this time of year.
in the meantime, best stock up on maritime grease and rider yer bike.

Thanks for the explanation kaesae. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it - but at least I know what you are on about now. 🙂

Couple of questions:

- if we are being bombarded by so much energy from astral bodies (other than the sun) that it is heating up the earth's core then surely we can measure or harness that energy in some way? Sounds like it would make a great free energy source.

- is there any evidence that the Earth's core is heating up? I thought the general consensus was that it was cooling down (very slowly). Your wiki link suggests it is cooling at "about 100 degrees Celsius per billion years"

- you said [i]"Look at seismic activity globally as well as extreme weather"[/i], so I did. The [url= http://www.bgs.ac.uk/research/earthquakes/earthquakeActivity.html ]British Geological Society[/url] said that global seismic activity wasn't increasing and had a nice graph showing earthquake numbers over the past two decades:
[img] [/img]

- BGS also said [i]"A long term increase in earthquake activity would require an increase in the Earth’s internal energy supply, which would be difficult to account for."[/i] Why do expert geologists not know about the core being heated by energy fields from astral bodies?

I hope you won't take any of this as dismissal of you ideas or an [i]"argumentative egotistical attitude that leads people to perpetually attempt to prove themselves"[/i] - I'm just asking these questions to understand your theory better.

which all begs the question...

are spiders extra terrestrial beings..?

the atomic weapons establishment gets it own, 'personalised' weather forecast from the met office.

We are waaaay better at polluting than present-day volcanoes.

Present day, certainly, but I was thinking about past periods. Perhaps I should have clarified.

Read the full paper - they shoot that down too.

The infamous 1980 St Helen's "paroxysm" (big eruption) only produced 0.01-gigaton of CO2 - so to match current anthropogenic CO2 you'd need 3500 paroxysms the size of St Helen's in a single year "[i]yielding 1400 cubic kilometers of magma — enough for about three supereruptions annually... [But] Supereruptions are extremely rare, with recurrence intervals of 100,000–200,000 years"[/i]

So no. Probably not in past periods either.

3 pages in and no one has mentioned the correlation between increased piracy and global warming. Tis pirates I tells ya, arrr.

The energy that is affecting our planet is being channeled through the Sun, Suns are the primary physical regulatory force in the milky way.

When Suns are forced into closer proximity to each other due to their course / trajectory or processional orbit through the milky way, this causes a build up of energy in the Suns that is then transferred into that Suns individual solar system.

To maintain equilibrium with the rest of the milky way each individual solar system is forced to change slightly or align to it's new environment.

As for seismic activity not increasing and the nice graph showing numbers, all very well however you are missing out intensity?

Frequency, duration and intensity is this not a primary analytical law when investigating anything that involves well anything? no point saying there are less earth quakes if just one has more intensity or inherent power that 100 or 1,000 other earth quakes!

We do not need to look online or listen to experts, we can evaluate what is happening based on what we see and our own experiences, volcanoes in Iceland erupting and closing air ports across Europe, flooding on a massive scale, rain that is so heavy that you can be soaked in seconds, weather patterns that are completely unpredictable.

Regardless of all that back to the question, how much time do we really think that we have?

volcanoes in Iceland erupting and closing air ports across Europe, flooding on a massive scale, rain that is so heavy that you can be soaked in seconds, weather patterns that are completely unpredictable.

but none of this stuff is any different to usual is it..?
Or is it..?

you're just noticing it more. Because you're maturing and taking a keener interest in this stuff, and the news, and current affairs in general, rather than in football, and hollyoaks, and getting enough money together to chip in for an eighth..

and certain online communities are then exploiting your new found interests and insecurities to peddle conspiracy theories, and alternative new age 'science'

maybe I'm being cynical, but my sister, and other hysterics through history have been reading signs and portents and concluding that 'the end of the world is nigh', since the dawn of time

Let's not forget about entropic decay.

One last idea before I go and get back to what I was doing, if we can plot the course of our solar system through the milky way and if we know when the last few times the poles flipped occurred.

Can we not not combine those two different sources of information and see if there is any corresponding occurrence in our stellar procession through the milky way that explains why the poles regularly flip?

Does the milky way have a north / south polarity and if our solar system was to move from a region controlled by the north polarity to one controlled by the south polarity, what effect would that have on our planets poles?