[Closed] Aspergers as an adult

Morning all

I've been reading the posts last night and today, thanks for all of your replies. I won't go in to details explaining the traits I show that are compatible with Aspergers, but there are quite a few.

I did one of those online tests last night (I know they're not a good indication of things) and my AQ came out at 46 which is high on that scale.

I'm just finding it all quite interesting. I'm not looking for excuses, or using any potential diagnosis to shift blame, but it would be nice to get a bit of clarity to explain my choices and decisions in life, to use to develop and understand myself better.

My counsellor is a mental health nurse who has worked a lot with people with Autism. She said she has been subtly asking me probing questions over the last couple of sessions to find out more as she did have a feeling that I may have Aspergers.

Any diagnosis will hopefully get me the right treatment and understanding of it which will hopefully help with the depressive side of me

a bit of clarity to explain my choices and decisions in life

Aspergers or not - you're still you, and that still needs to be come to terms with.

I've made loads of stupid decisions in my life, with long reaching implications for me and my family. But that's just me. I'm flawed, like most people. Maybe one day there'll be a syndrome for it, maybe not.

We know people who've also made and continue to make bad decisions - evading reality, not listening to good advice, all sorts. Do they need treatment? Hard to say.

I'd place you somewhere on the human spectrum I think.

That's not to dismiss 'treatment' but maybe it should be considered a more intensive form of advice instead?

[quote=molgrips ]I used to, then I realised most people don't have anything in common with me, so I stopped trying too hard. Now I just go out with people who like me. There's not many of them and they don't live nearby, so I don't get out much

You are me and I claim my £5

In terms of Autism (which I must add is absolutely not a mental health issue) diagnosis is more for everyone else than it is for the Autistic person. With children, it moves the conversation away from a child being " naughty" or "quiet" and starts to focus people on how the environments the child is in might be driving behaviours. Also, being Autistic comes under the umbrella of [i]protected characteristics[/i] in the Equality Act (2010), meaning that, not only are you protected by law from discrimination on the grounds of being Autistic, but that public sector bodies [i]have a duty[/i] to account for your needs when planning services.
People who are "odd" are afforded little protection by the Act.

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]

I've had one try to tell me that I'm a bit on the spectrum yet I score in the top 1 percentile in the Baron-Cohen eye test.

That's interesting, I'd consider my self a bit of a social unitard, but I scored 32/36 on an online version of that test. Apparently the average is 26.

I wonder if maybe I just pick up more readily on people being bored/faking an interest in my conversations more than most people do. 😆

Edit: or my conversations are just more boring than most peoples, seems more likely in hindsight

based on this thread, i did an AQ test online and came out at 38.

People have always said that I was hovering on the spectrum somewhere, but this was something that only reared it's head for me in the last few years, or more importantly, I only started caring about it in the last few years.

After seeing my friends daughter, who has been diagnosed autistic, I care a lot less about myself now

That's interesting, I'd consider my self a bit of a social unitard, but I scored 32/36 on an online version of that test. Apparently the average is 26.

There's a theory (created by me and published in my head and now on STW for the first time) that if it doesn't come naturally to you you have to think more carefully about it which might ultimately lead to better understanding.

So you are good at it when concentrating, but occasionally if you're tired/caught out/etc you revert to type.

In terms of Autism (which I must add is absolutely not a mental health issue) diagnosis is more for everyone else than it is for the Autistic person.

Ah yes of course, excellent point.

With children, it moves the conversation away from a child being " naughty" or "quiet" and starts to focus people on how the environments the child is in might be driving behaviours.

Quite right, but remember that is also important for ALL kids. For those who are 'naughty' or 'acting up' or even just in the 'terrible twos' the same process is important, imo.

In other words - make an effort to what people are really thinking and feeling. That goes for everyone.

Which order would you like them in Thoughtful through to suicidal.

Alphabetically

There's a theory (created by me and published in my head and now on STW for the first time) that if it doesn't come naturally to you you have to think more carefully about it which might ultimately lead to better understanding.

So you are good at it when concentrating, but occasionally if you're tired/caught out/etc you revert to type.

Might as well share some of this so as to try and help others - so heres a clinician comment along those lines:

[IMG] [/IMG]

and to remind everyone that its not just 'seeing traits' its about how it affects your everyday life - TJ's comments about coping mechanisms being very relevant here

[IMG] [/IMG]

I have to admit I identify a bit with Kieran in the first image but not the second until the last sentence which is like me. Usually if I see someone I know that I haven't seen for a while I hide - there are few exceptions to this.

My friends are the ones who aren't put off by my being a little weird when I get over-excited.

I don't think it's the professional diagnosis that's important, more so it's awareness of your own traits and understanding yourself, knowing that you are not just chronically shy, learning how to blend in with NT people in social situations and communicate in personal/private relationships can help massively with your state of mind and mental health. I spent more than half my life as a very depressed self medicating hermit wondering why I was such a ****-up, but since becoming aware my life has changed for the better imeasurably. Having a label I can blame things on does not help and can become a hindrance, "sorry, I'm behaving like a **** because I'm aspie". Be careful not to go down that road.

I sound like Keiran.

Mental health is too often defined by social constructs - not your own well being.

Mental health is too often destroyed by social constructs - not your own well being.

sounds better to me.

Being an aspie, geeky, social retard, or whatever the hell others want to label you as is all good and well, but leads to the 'everyone is on the spectrum' type quotes, which, if they're talking about the spectrum of autistic disorders ( y'know, autistic spectrum disorder, after all..), it at best shit, and at worst devalues the extra effort required to function 'normally' which can lead to an overall sense that you're making it all up and everyone else copes just fine, why cant you? The persistent implications of this can lead to depression.

It's often only when you're close to someone with ASD, that you see the impact it has on them as an individual and the impact it has on others close.

It's very difficult to explain, but it's more the inconsitency of behaviour that often destroys previous social efforts. The harder you try to maintain these relationships, the more effort is required, the more exhausted you get and the more your baseline traits show through.

It's not all doom and gloom though....

Interesting comments , I particularly agree with the the one stating it isn't a mental health issue. I think it's how we're wired up.
I am Kieran too btw.

On a lighter note, try to imagine a STW Spectrum pootle? 😀

Houns has ridden with most of mlehworld......

On a lighter note, try to imagine a STW Spectrum pootle?

With no-one to prevent the group constantly stopping to try and get the saddle the exact right height? Could be a slow ride.

I have the image of shy cyclists ,30 minutes early, in all corners of a car park...With one or two boisterous ones doing wheelies. 😀

*s****s*

[quote=tjagain ]*s****s*

<quietly in a corner where nobody else can see him>

can you put a story to the video to explain what the triangles are doing?

If you can't, you're most likely on the Autistic spectrum. If you find it easy, you're not.
All the other stereotypes are irrelevant really.

The triangle videos are tests for children, not adults.

It's important to remember that the AQ test is relatively old and was designed as a screening tool for professional use. There are critics of Simon Baron Cohens hypothesis of a "Theory of Mind" deficit in Autistics.

If anyone needs help with their problematic AS traits, I suggest anything by Tony Attwood as a good place to start. He also has plenty of videos on Youtube.

NHS diagnosis IME for adults are based largely on the impact ASD is having on day to day living. The ones who have reached 35+ who haven't suffered from debilitating depression or topped themselves have probably developed coping skills to manage the condition. If you want to know if you have an autistic disorder, go private.

Schools and GP's just weren't geared up for it in the 80's. If you weren't dribbling into a cup or tripping up over your tongue then you were fine and just acting up, or a bit shy and needed to be put in front of a crowd of people to bring you out of your shell.

Having a diagnosis though isn't important to you as an individual. knowing that you have an ASD is enough, you can let yourself off a bit for being a bit of a mess and not getting what everyone around you appears to understand. However, like what's been said above, it's not an excuse for being a dick. For example, I have to work hard to figure out if I'm coming across as arrogant and condescending in conversation, where I'm merely using words sparingly and without emotion.

You are still who you've always knows you are, but also knowing you have ASD you have enough give in your mind to step away from the confusion that's causing anxiety, give it an internal rationale and move on without the concern of being 'not normal' stressing you out further. You can concentate more on managing your methods better, so they work better and allow you to lead a relatively normal external life, if that's what you want.

However, a diagnosis does offer those close, who may be confused and hurt by your inconsistent behaviour a better basic understanding that it's not personal, it may still hurt, but it's not personal or intentional, and if they feel like it, help provide a safe friendship where social obligations aren't necesarrily rigidly managed.

or, hang about in goth clubs, where everyone is a bit odd and it makes you look like the most normally functioning socially able person there.
😉

Houns has ridden with most of mlehworld......

Poor, poor man 😉

So...

What [b]are[/b] the symptoms??

Some people with Asperger syndrome say the world feels overwhelming and this can cause them considerable anxiety.

In particular, understanding and relating to other people, and taking part in everyday family, school, work and social life, can be harder. Other people appear to know, intuitively, how to communicate and interact with each other, yet can also struggle to build rapport with people with Asperger syndrome. People with Asperger syndrome may wonder why they are 'different' and feel their social differences mean people don’t understand them.

Autistic people, including those with Asperger syndrome, often do not 'look' disabled. Some parents of autistic children say that other people simply think their child is naughty, while adults find that they are misunderstood.

from [url= http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx ]http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx[/url]

though that doesn't really make it clear.

you know that teenage feeling that no one understands you? well, that doesn't go away, it gets worse.

that's only a small part though, or a large part, depending on who you are..:-s

you know that teenage feeling that no one understands you? well, that doesn't go away, it gets worse.

No-one actually does understand me though. Do you?

are you a special snowflake Molly?

😆

Yes, I am. Very special.

[quote=lovewookie ]from http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx
though that doesn't really make it clear.
you know that teenage feeling that no one understands you? well, that doesn't go away, it gets worse.
that's only a small part though, or a large part, depending on who you are..:-s

It's exactly that description, and previous similar comments on this thread which has lead me to realise that is me - when I'd always assumed before that it required much greater difficulty interacting with other people. I can just about manage small talk, I don't think I even have as much trouble as others on this thread like molly (I don't feel the need to hide from everybody). It's just the huge feelings of anxiety I often get about it.

I haven't done any of the self tests, and I'm not about to as it doesn't seem useful, but it is a relief in a way to understand it is partly due to how I'm wired.

My other half is a "strong" Aspie.
Was a steep learning curve and it can be difficult at times. She suffers from extreme anxiety and I've had to adjust to accommodate.
I'm a massive piss taker and wind-up merchant, but I know she'll take things at face value so I have to reign it in.
She has quite strict routines which cause great stress and anxiety if not adhered to, even down to little things like always walking the same route, crossing the road at exactly the same place.
I love spontaneity and trying new things, but appreciate it is very much a "one step at a time" process to avoid overwhelming her.

I've also had to learn that she doesn't show affection like a "normal" person. This was initially very difficult but I now know that she does things in her own time and in her own way.

It's just nice that she feels safe and comfortable with me, and has started to get out the house more now, although I have to admit it was Pokemon that did that initially (one of her obsessive behaviours).

And with the mention of Pokemon, I have shared too much.
🙂

Some people with Asperger syndrome say the world feels overwhelming and this can cause them considerable anxiety.

My only input for you is in the way of a bit of help in the understanding of such a diagnosis.
Seems to be in stages

Stage 1. Answers to a whole host of questions that have likely plagued you throughout your life.
The down side there is while it may answer many questions, it unfortunately poses a lot more.

Stage 2. Telling other people of your diagnosis and the 'help' they offer by telling you that you dont have it, or implying such that many of the traits and behaviours you feel are normal for everyone.

Stage 3. Excuses. Excuses excuses excuses.
You'll start blaming everything on Aspergers. Then as a crutch to get out of doing things you might find difficult, or at least a bit.

Stage 4. Depression. No two ways about it youre as flawed as flawed gets. You share nothing with the general population. And youve got it all in writing so cannot deny you have Aspergers, though you will, and at great length.

Stage 5 More depression. Family, friends CANNOT understand.
Stage 6. Delusions of grandeur. 😉 You might start looking at some of the traits as a bonus, and abilities, the vast population of the great unwashed do not posses.
Stage 7. Acceptance. Sort of.

Slight upside, that can actually be a downside and a rather steep one at that - Having autism means youre completely exempt from everything work wise. Benefits will be in the region of £20G including housing and other exemptions.(what would be income tax/ council tax, prescriptions and other medical benefits. etc)
Oooh Thats a lot, I hear concerned voices mutter. But it can be the case that the person with autism that they've employed might do something that could lead to the injury of others.

It is imperative you stay in employment.

But it can be the case that the person with autism that they've employed might do something that could lead to the injury of others.

It is imperative you stay in employment.

Eh?

The problem with Psychologists, is that most of them are women - so every man that comes through their door ends up being labeled on the "spectrum" - because if you're not a touchy feely cuddly person and have an interest in inanimate objects it must be because you're autistic.

Not so much controversial as misogynistic.

Psychologists are all **** quacks

Probably not.

Note my comment on male psychiatrists, BPD being a wonderfully mysoginistic diagnosis formed by males.

https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/10/27/government-study-autism/20907/

To add, I think casually labelling someone as being a "bit on the spectrum" is a wonderfully dismisive way of shunning other peoples behavior in interacting with the world.

Simon Baron-Cohen, the Cambridge University professor who popularized the extreme-male-brain theory of autism, would say that boys’ speech is more egoistic because, overall, boys tend to be less empathic than girls. He backs this up with abundant scientific evidence. Putting yourself in someone else’s shoes to figure out what they might be feeling comes more naturally to girls. Girls are simply more inclined to read a person’s facial expressions in order to make sure that they are coming across sensitively. Faces tend to be sources of social feedback for girls in ways that they are not for boys. Dr. Baron-Cohen’s research team has discovered that even at birth, female infants will look longer at faces than male infants and prolong mutual eye gazing.

Many boys just get perplexed when you try to empathize with them. As an example, I recently had the following interaction with Alan, an eight-year-old:

Alan: In my soccer game over the weekend, the other forwards on my team never passed to me. I was so mad.

Dr. Gnaulati: You were mad because your teammates didn’t pass to you, eh.

Alan: Why are you repeating what I just said? Didn’t you hear me?

This interaction with Alan captures how for many boys, grasping the literal content of their verbalizations matters more than “feeling understood.” [b]Appearing attentive, asking probing questions, and reflecting back what someone is saying may be the empathic glue that cements a friendship for the average female. However, for the average male, following along with and responding to the literal content of what they are saying is what’s deemed valuable. A friend is someone who shares your interests and with whom you can have detailed discussions about these interests.[/b]

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/21/thats_not_autism_its_simply_a_brainy_introverted_boy/

[img] [/img]

But it can be the case that the person with autism that they've employed might do something that could lead to the injury of others.

It is imperative you stay in employment.

Eh?

I should have added as in working for yourself. Self employment and such like. Keeping yourself busy.
It's kind of clear an announcement of autism at a job interview isnt going to win you the job.

I dont know op's employment record or so. But it can be temptation to do nothing. Which is a bad thing

Clear ? 😉

I just want to say beware of self-diagnosis or being told you've got something by people that don't really know. Ignore the online tests, too, they're just a tool to use alongside other methods.

I was asked if I was an Aspie by a couple of people, was told to do online tests by a doctor, got sent for an assessment, etc. Only to be told I wasn't. Then, a while after, was diagnosed with ADHD.
(This a very condensed version of events!)

Slight upside, that can actually be a downside and a rather steep one at that - Having autism means youre completely exempt from everything work wise. Benefits will be in the region of £20G including housing and other exemptions.(what would be income tax/ council tax, prescriptions and other medical benefits. etc)

in an ideal world yes. assistance is there to provide thos suffering with ASD the ability to live a relatively independent life by provicing funds to pay for services (or allow part time work) to help with things that would normally contribute to overload.

However, we live in aworld where ATOS assess every disabled person. Having a 'hidden' condition is pretty damn diffcult to assess over a 30 minute chat where the nurse does this bit:

Stage 2. Telling other people of your diagnosis and the 'help' they offer by telling you that you dont have it, or implying such that many of the traits and behaviours you feel are normal for everyone.

This is whats happened with my daughter. Diagnosed at 13, awarded DLA and access to other services (bus card, carers benefits etc), then removed 6 months ago as ATOS think she is fully able to function, hold down school, work, and be independent. Obviously she's been cured of autism then?
Still, the appeals process is good fun, ATOS and DWP essentially accuse you of lying at the first and second stages, we've yet to see what the next phase brings.

I was asked if I was an Aspie by a couple of people, was told to do online tests by a doctor, got sent for an assessment, etc. Only to be told I wasn't. Then, a while after, was diagnosed with ADHD.
(This a very condensed version of events!)

I have a similar story. As I've said previoulsy, a NHS diagnosis will only be positive if it has a significant impact on day to day living.
Giving accurate accounts of early childhood is really hard, you only have your perspective, which isn't always correct.
I've been back through the questions, and the autopilot answers I've given compared to the actual reality of what I was like as a kid, before I'd developed masking and coping skills. Vastly different, and it required the help of my mum, who was pretty much in denial about anything wrong with her little boy when I was young.

A formal diagnosis isn't really necessary, Private diagnoses are only for yourself, as a lot of GP's wont recognise it, therefore DWP won't either.

of course, you are who you are, you just now know that you're not a superior being, or an alien, or whatever the stark, out of phase with the world differnce you notice between yourself and others manifested itself in your head. It's just Aspergers, it's a differnt wiring diagram.

However, we live in aworld where ATOS assess every disabled person. Having a 'hidden' condition is pretty damn diffcult to assess

And the process seems designed to make you fail. Either that or it's a postcode lottery.

We recently went through the PIP application. My OH has both diagnosed ASD and a diagnosed physical disability. This manifests to varying degrees; on a bad day it's all she can do to get out of bed, on a good day she's relatively 'normal' but a day of doing stuff can wipe her out for days.

we filled in all the questionnaires (and it's a lengthy old document), had a home assessment (which they cut short by 20 minutes because they were late), then got the decision back including answers they'd made up to questions they never asked, with a disability score of... zero.

Put it to appeal, another lengthy document responding to each reply in the original. Another interview, and a revised score of... zero again.

This is a very condensed version of what happened, the whole process took about six months and by the end of it she was massively stressed and anxious to a point where if we'd pursued it further she'd have been very ill. How they expect people with Autism or other mental challenges to go through this is beyond me.

The piss-boiling thing about it all is, it's not about the money, I'd have understood if she'd fallen just short of the qualifying score, but "zero" is just bullshit. What, we're lying? I've a friend who has similar mental issues and none of the physical issues, and has just been awarded PIP at the higher rate.

^^ this.
it's the big fat zero that hits you.

and you're right, designed so those who are so utterly stressed out, or uotherwise unable to appeal, not appealing, so losing any assistance they once had. Best case is they get family support, worst case is they end up in a box.

Note my comment on male psychiatrists, BPD being a wonderfully mysoginistic diagnosis formed by males.

Hi Tom,

It's not always the point made - but the way you make the point.

J

Still, the appeals process is good fun, ATOS and DWP essentially accuse you of lying at the first and second stages, we've yet to see what the next phase brings.

I think the next stage will be an independent tribunal, who arent held by the governments targets so can rule dependent upon the condition not what the government wants thee dwp to say.

At the first hurdle the dwp with rule against you. This is apparently policy, and not dependent upon the condition itself. A bit like the first offer from an insurance company.
The 2nd is the dwp adjudication officer. Ive yet to see one of these clowns rule against their own department.

Points to note are that the Atos(or whoever now)employ someone who is unqualified to rule on her condition. Certainly no medical degree's and as far as im aware all those employed to make medical diagnosis have not taken the Hippocratic oath, as that itself would prevent a medical profession from ruling in a medical case fully knowing that the diagnosis was false and target driven on company and government orders.

In cases where its a tribunal where the ruling body holds to such oaths the judgement would go in your favour.

During one of my 'interviews' I kindly pointed out that i see such pseudo health professionals that are employed by atos, as being the equivalent of Dr Mengele's assistants.
And should in my humble opinion, share a similar fate.

ATOS are where nurses who can no longer nurse go to die.