I deliberately bolded ‘insufficient evidence’ because it is easy for people to jump on that as an example of insufficient testing.
If one is starting from "dangerous until proven safe" instead of "safe until proven dangerous" then it says a lot about what they really think despite any "I'm not racist but" -esque protestations to the contrary.
Fortunately it seems all the major religious groups have accepted the vaccine, but what would everyones opinon be if a large group of society had rejected the vaccine on religious grounds?
What do we think about something which hasn't happened and is extremely unlikely to happen in the UK in any sort of statistically significant manner?
I believe my views on people using religion as an excuse to do as they please are already fairly well documented on earlier threads and see little reason to derail this one.
Just in case anyone cares, an update: I failed to convince the people in question and they have turned down the jab.
I am not, however, planning to excommunicate them from my life for doing so.
I am not, however, planning to excommunicate them from my life for doing so.
No need for that, covid can't be transmitted via the telephone or Zoom.
Mind you, they probably think it can...
My BIL is anti vaccine. My Mrs has warned him about flying long haul to America (or anywhere else for that matter).
That's it really.
I am not, however, planning to excommunicate them from my life for doing so.
You think that’s brave/commendable of you? Or ‘typical’ of others? My antivaxxing cousin has (via email) openly excommunicated their entire family and friends (excepting fellow antivaxxers and/or conspiracy-theorists) for having had the jab. Quite literally. They say we’ve all ‘committed suicide’ (by having the vaccine) that we’re ‘wilfully ****ing stupid/dumb’ and that they won’t be seeing us again. I’ve half a mind to send them an email response and sign off with a serial number and Windows XP shutdown WAV 🤣
That's weird.
Even if he were right, how does he think that is likely to affect him? You can't catch vaccination from someone else (unfortunately).
Oh, wait. "Think."
Just wait till we get a proper nasty pandemic ebola type virus.
We can then have fun filling mass graves with anti-vaxxers - "Here lie 2000 idiots" etc.
Just wait till we get a proper nasty pandemic ebola type virus.
We can then have fun filling mass graves with anti-vaxxers – “Here lie 2000 idiots” etc.
Funnily enough I think you'll find that the anti-vaxxers will put their 'principles' to one side in that case.
But just this once, mind.
I expect bleeding out of your eyes and arse probably trumps instagram emojis.
All this talk about vaccine certificates we should surely be more interested in actual antibodies and covid tests , having the had the vaccine doesn't mean you necessarily have the antibodies and it also doesn't stop you getting or spreading it either it just hopefully reduces your chances of ending up in hospital, surely an antibody certificate and a clear test would be much more useful
Ps. I have just yet again tested positive for antibodies 11 months now from my positive covid test fingers crossed on my next test ill have had them a full year, I get tested for covid twice a week at work and at the moment I have declined the vaccination, based on the fact that I already have natural antibodies when I dont ill get it til then no thanks
Just wait till we get a proper nasty pandemic ebola type virus.
We can then have fun filling mass graves with anti-vaxxers – “Here lie 2000 idiots” etc.
I actually suspect that many of the anti vaxx brigade say one thing online, while at the same time checking to see if their vaccination appointment has come through yet. If they haven't had it already.
It is incredulous though when we get an anti vaxxer who has caught the virus and is hit very hard with it, just missing out dying and being left with terrible side effects.
Then claiming how wrong they were and how people shouldnt listen to anti vaxxers that they were once a loud voice in. Its hard not to laugh at them.
I expect bleeding out of your eyes and arse probably trumps instagram emojis.
There’s got to be a Tik Tok joke in here somewhere.
All this talk about vaccine certificates we should surely be more interested in actual antibodies and covid tests , having the had the vaccine doesn’t mean you necessarily have the antibodies and it also doesn’t stop you getting or spreading it either it just hopefully reduces your chances of ending up in hospital, surely an antibody certificate and a clear test would be much more useful
This is the sensible thing to do.
Therefore we won’t do it.
I expect bleeding out of your eyes and arse probably trumps instagram emojis.
I've had curries like that too......
having the had the vaccine doesn’t mean you necessarily have the antibodies and it also doesn’t stop you getting or spreading it either
There was no promise that it would prevent you from spreading it as it wasn't a factor that could be readily measured in the trials - as you can only have data from the people who have been vaccinated, not the people they've met - but the best outcome is that it will. Many vaccines have their real benefit in eradicating the disease rather than protecting only the vaccinated. Diseases like measles are most dangerous to children too young to have been vaccinated - the rest of us protect those kids by not being a vector for the disease ourselves.
It appears theres been a drop in infections in the households of healthcare workers who've been vaccinated - ie people most exposed to covid, once vaccinated, aren't passing infection on.
Well mac my wives hospital (4 wards all live in mental health) has been vaccinated including staff and most patients now have covid and the staff too in fact the biggest stand out thing is that the staff that had covid last year are the ones that don't have it,
Also on my station most have had the vaccine but its recently spread round the whole station including the cleaners but our watch was untouched but most of my watch had it last April so the vaccine doesn't appear to be doing a great deal from what I can see, the numbers have dropped but we did go into lockdown around the same time as the vaccine rollout began, but hey what do I know lol, that said as I said once I have no antibodies ill get a vaccine
^^Genuine wuestion here firestarter.
Of those that now have Covid that were vaccinated, are any in hospital over the condition?
Cheers mate.
No mate they aren't. Which is good news but my concern is that it still appears to spread like mad unless you have natural antibodies
having the had the vaccine doesn’t mean you necessarily have the antibodies and it also doesn’t stop you getting or spreading it
Isn’t there some evidence that a (non-vaccinated) person who catches the virus from a vaccinated person will develop a less-severe disease?
firestarter
Free Member
No mate they aren’t. Which is good news but my concern is that it still appears to spread like mad unless you have natural antibodies
Glad to hear that for their sakes and for my own personal selfishness, I won't like. Cheers bud.
Isn’t there some evidence that a (non-vaccinated) person who catches the virus from a vaccinated person will develop a less-severe disease?
That sounds rather unlikely
surely an antibody certificate and a clear test would be much more useful
An antibody certificate would be no more use than vaccination certificate.
Ps. I have just yet again tested positive for antibodies 11 months now from my positive covid test fingers crossed on my next test ill have had them a full year, I get tested for covid twice a week at work and at the moment I have declined the vaccination, based on the fact that I already have natural antibodies
How many do you have? Enough to test for, or enough to be effective?
Booster shot??
It is incredulous though when we get an anti vaxxer who has caught the virus and is hit very hard with it, just missing out dying and being left with terrible side effects.
Then claiming how wrong they were and how people shouldnt listen to anti vaxxers that they were once a loud voice in. Its hard not to laugh at them.
They are the only examples that anti-vaxxers might listen to though. I don't care if it takes the infection to make them change their tone, just so long as they do.
Had a fun evening with one of the local anti-vaxxers who haunts the local council's Covid related posts. He insisted I go and read the gov.uk NOIDS report for Covid which would prove that he was right. I went and read it, and then quoted what it said, which funnily enough proved that what he was saying was actually wrong. He's not happy about it.
Whys that Rob? Surely antibodies are better than a proof of vaccine.
I have enough to be over a threshold that has been decided by someone who knows about these things, it says you can be told you don't have any if you don't have enough but if you reach the threshold you are classed as having them , but they aren't specific about numbers
Also, I love it when anti-vaxxers talk to you whilst smoking.
Oakley or those with a mask exemption but they can stand around outside tescos smoking tabs
Can one o you clever peeps please explain?
Why will vaccinated people be allowed to fly abroad get into bars, retaurants etc, as they still pose the same risk of catching and spreading the covid virus?
Oakley or those with a mask exemption but they can stand around outside tescos smoking tabs
I'm finding hard not to just be an outright abrasive **** these days. A friend of mine used to troll me a lot in the pub, in fact - I'm becoming distinctly aware that this friend has been a constant ****ing thorn in my side and I've mentioned her more than once on here - one time she decided to ask me loaded questions about MMR and Autism and I just responded gently at the time.
However, I'm apparently a judgmental prick who reminds her of Rick from Rick and Morty - because when she told me someone she knew nearly died from the Covid, I responded that at least she didn't get autism.
Anyway, we aren't talking now or something.
Why will vaccinated people be allowed to fly abroad get into bars, retaurants etc, as they still pose the same risk of catching and spreading the covid virus?
You mean the same as people with positive antibody tests?
Doesn't make any sense either way. For the foreseeable pcr tests will be the benchmark.
They say we’ve all ‘committed suicide’ (by having the vaccine) that we’re ‘wilfully **** stupid/dumb’ and that they won’t be seeing us again.
To which I would respond with: “Thank God for that, you’ve turned my desire to never want to see your sorry ass ever again into reality! Thank you, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.” 🤣
He insisted I go and read the gov.uk NOIDS report for Covid which would prove that he was right. I went and read it, and then quoted what it said, which funnily enough proved that what he was saying was actually wrong. He’s not happy about it.
I hope you pressed him relentlessly for a response to those findings. Although personally I'd have added hahahahahahahahahaha on each post directed at him
I hope you pressed him relentlessly for a response to those findings. Although personally I’d have added hahahahahahahahahaha on each post directed at him
He's gone quiet
Can one o you clever peeps please explain?
Why will vaccinated people be allowed to fly abroad get into bars, retaurants etc, as they still pose the same risk of catching and spreading the covid virus?
The anti-vaxxers won't be able to tie their own shoelaces to leave the house in the first place, so the threat to them is minimal in any case. That and trying to avoid being within 500m of a phone mast pretty much rules out contact.
He’s gone quiet
He's blocked you and is continuing to spout his bollocks to people he considers it safe* to do so.
*I.e. people who can't be arsed to check if he's talking bollocks.
Piers Corbyn just got pranked a corker. Oh dear.
In response to Piers Corbyn’s tee shirt, my reply to that is this:
^ Ironically I can well imagine Pier’s flock (unironically) singing that tune:
This time the bullet cold rocked ya
A rainbow instead of a swastika
Nothin' proper about ya propaganda
Fools follow rules when the set commands ya
…
That's how ya got a bullet blasted through ya arm
A bullet in the arm
A bullet in the arm
A bullet in the arm
*edit: beaten to it:
Anti vax friends of mine who weren't really public about there objections have now been jabbed. Unfortunately it took someone close to them sadly passing away for it to hit home. I am glad that they have taken some positive action to protect themselves to a degree.
The strange thing is that many of the people who are taking this view were/are happy to neck all sorts of pills and powders at festivals, raves etc. But a vaccine is somehow a risk they will not take.
However, I’m apparently a judgmental prick who reminds her of Rick from Rick and Morty
I would love to be compared to Rick! You must be proud!
they have taken some positive action to protect themselves
... to protect everyone else.
The strange thing is that many of the people who are taking this view were/are happy to neck all sorts of pills and powders at festivals, raves etc. But a vaccine is somehow a risk they will not take.
It's bizarre, isn't it. "We don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine, it's new!" - sure, but do you have a much greater insight into the long-term effects of covid? Where's your 20 years of analysis on a disease that literally has the year 2019 in its name?
I think a big part of this shambles is that lots of people just want to be contrary.
I think a big part of this shambles is that lots of people just want to be contrary.
For some it seems to be about being edgy and "sticking it to the man". Article on the BBC yesterday about a woman who just didn't think it was right for her and didn't want it because the government were pushing it so hard.
Presumably she'll be OK if she ends up needing to go into intensive care and the government picks up the bill?
I have one covid antivaxxer friend, her reasoning is that she's fit and healthy (although statistically she's in the "Holy shit get vaccinated" risk group), her mate who got covid was fine and the vaccine is still experimental.
The contradiction in using a sample of her mate to determine covid was fine vs the mountains of rigorous testing on the vaccine was lost on her. Also not clear how she'd concluded there were no long term effects from covid.
I think in her case it's some sort of appeal to nature fallacy combined with exceptionalism. She's not particularly evangelical about it, it's an entirely self centred thing. Seems very irresponsible to me when you have kids and a family to make a choice which puts you at orders of magnitude higher risk of not being there for them with good health.
I currently have three family members with covid. A niece on my wife's side who caught in a pub, along with almost everyone else that night apparently, and a niece and nephew on my side. The niece claims to have caught it at work (she's a care worker) but at a random party is far more likely and the nephew caught it from her. All are unvaccinated because they "don't believe in it". At that point I lose all sympathy for them and don't bother engaging them any further as there's no cure for stupid.
You think the Covid antivaxxers are dimwits, just have a read of this, it’s rather terrifying!
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/deep-dive-into-stupid-meet-the-growing-group-that-rejects-germ-theory/
Wow.
