No,life is to short.
For those special people that have really pissed me off and been put on "the List":
To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hates sake, I spit my last breath at thee.
To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hates sake, I spit my last breath at thee.
"Khaaaaaaannnnnnnn"!
[i]bitter, twisted[/i]
...that's me. Although I can't remember anyone I'm supposed to hate, so either I've forgiven or forgotten.
Aww perchy; whatever I did and whatever I said, I didn't mean itperchypanther - MemberForgive? ........always
Forget? ..........never. Gary Barlow taught me that
... and I have a list too - only two on it. Brothers; for something they did to my dad
beyond that there's one person I wouldn't work with again, in the sense that I'd actually resign rather than do so
I forgive others but rarely myself.I forget others transgressions but never my own.
Sums me up pretty well! Has led to a few issues with myself at times but I never hold a grudge, trouble is certain people have taken the pee with it and I never learn...
if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.
Really depends on the lie: something to protect you from something nasty it would be ok, something that should have been put right early in the 49 years (eg adopted) then that would be harder and would depend on circumstances and the characters involved.
Aww perchy; whatever I did and whatever I said, I didn't mean it
😆
ton - Member
if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.
That's an interesting scenario... Post their death, I found out something about a elderly relative that I held in great affection and esteem. Despite still loving them and remembering them fondly, I'm not sure I feel the same as I did before. In my situation, I don't know enough about the circumstances to understand - let alone forgive. It might be easier if you can learn more about it...
Depends on the circumstances for me but by what Ton's saying I imagine it's quite deep/emotional/pretty serious or traumatic.
I'm like my Mum in that respect & not my Dad. He forgave no-one!
To err is human, to forgive is divine.
Aww perchy; whatever I did and whatever I said, I didn't mean it
So you'll wash his back for good?
I remember forever.
Brief case in point; junior oncologist told my wife and I (wed for two days) that there was 'no hope' of my survival past five years due to advanced metastatic cancer. The lack of compassion or care in his delivery was astonishing; he filled out the paperwork without making eye contact with the same emotion as he would have done writing a shopping list. When pressed he said [i]"...What do you want me to say? That's just the way it is.."[/i]
On the fifth anniversary of that meeting, I attended the department he was now based at in a different county, after taking a non-paid leave day from school. The hospital was in the Midlands, and over 100 miles away from where the original conversation had taken place; I had no appointment, he didn't know I was coming, and I'd researched for four months to find out where he was now based. I had statistics from the last five years in the UK about survivability rates for my cancer, gleaned from the London Sarcoma centre, and presented them and other data to him. He changed the original paperwork to reflect the true data, in the presence of his line manager, who wrote me an amazing letter afterwards about the importance of hope.
Now when someone with cardiac and skeletal metastatic AS in the UK is given the same ****ing diagnosis as I was, they are told that 3.8 percent of people survive past five years. And they can at least have hope, even if everything else counts against them.
And the moral? I'm a genuine arsehole, with a problem with injustice, who carries a brick for a long time and will (sadly) stand to lose out over time because of it.
But I've accepted this.
A 46 year secret reveals itself?
Shit, that's a long time.
So, depends all on what difference knowing what you do now has influenced your life and counter that with trying to get to understand if you knew all along.
I'm still Forgive, never Forget.
Maybe and No ( but time makes you do it eventually and makes it inconsequential .)
I don't forive and forget. However, I'm not vengeful.
Do me over, lie to me or mess me about and I just cut you off entirely or move you so far out to the periphery of my life you can't do it again.
It would depend entirely on the nature of the secret. 49 years is a long time to hold on to something serious and without being in your shoes there is no way of knowing the reasons behind it being kept from you for so long.
I often let the transgression fester inside, building a slow-burning core of resentment which normally reaches a point where that person is entirely cut out of my life. It's unhealthy, and I normally recommend not doing so - with the proviso that some people are utterly toxic and IME is best to move on quickly and invest in better. I have no desire for 'revenge', just for a better life.
Small transgressions (if recognised and repaired) are usually worthy of forgiveness and bridge-building. Life's too short for needless drama. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. But I always have a 'but', and that is usually that people tend towards repetition. Leopards and spots etc.
if you believed something for 49 years of your life...
Genuinely intrigued by this...
I'm struggling to think of anyone I'm bearing any grudges against. A few people I'm glad I no longer have to deal with, lots that I'm grateful to, lots that I miss. 🙂
I'm quick to anger and quick to forgive..
If something upsets me I get it out in the open immediately and try to clear the air.. letting something fester inside will rot your heart..
Equally, once I've said what I need to say I'm usually ready to forgive and forget.. People are capable of change which is how we evolve.. Every one of us makes mistakes and no two people have the same perspective on a situation so who am I to judge another's actions..
It's only those that refuse to consider changing that risk losing my respect
Depends on the level of transgression.
I generally go with the treat me like a * once shame on you, treat me like a * twice shame on me approach and similar to above I just cut the person out of my life, not in a harsh way I just no longer give them a second thought or bother with them, life is too short to put up with people who go through life mistreating others.
bullheartAnd the moral? I'm a genuine arsehole...
Couldn't disagree more.
Forgiveness is for the weak.
Never. Under no circumstances. For anything.
here goes, i was brought up solely by my mother, the bloke who i was told was my father left while my mother was pregnant with me.
so it was me, my 2 sisters and my mum.
i saw the bloke who i was told was my father once, when i was 13.
never saw him again. when he died, my sisters asked me if i would go to his funeral. i refused, as i never knew him.
spring forward to last year.
i got a facebook message from a lady, telling me that i was her husbands father. i agreed a blood test to prove otherwise, and in the end it was proven i was not the lads father. i went out with his mum on 2 occasions when i was 16. nothing happened.
so, i told my mum about the whole thing, as i did not want to upset her or my wife with them finding out some other way.
whilst having the conversation, my mother said that she had something to tell me, and hoped i would not get annoyed or be upset.
she then proceeded to tell my, that the man i was told and who i had believed was my father, well, he wasnt. it was a big shock, but i was not annoyed or upset. i did not know him. he was a stranger to me.
she told me who my real dad was, and a bit about him. she told me that my 2 older sisters had known this all my life, as they are older than me. she had also told my younger half sister about it also.
at the time, i let it go. i had too much on my plate to deal with it. i was facing surgery, my wife was poorly with epilepsy. i had more serious stuff to think about.
but recently, i has proper got to me, like i am gonna explode about it.
why did she not tell me when i was young, so i could have maybe met my proper dad.
why did my sister try to get me to go to a blokes funeral who was nothing to me.
why was it kept a secret for so long.
would she have told me at all, if i had not told her about my issue.
i am at the stage where i dont want to go see her, or converse with her.
i have washed my hands with all 3 sister through other reasons, and this has concreted that.
i now feel the same towards my mother.
she is 78 and lives alone. her health is not good, but i feel like i dont really care to be honest.
like I said above Ton...
No two people have the same perspective on a situation and I'm sure that your mum had your best interests at heart, even if she chose a course of action that you can't understand..
Probably the best thing to do is to try to understand what led her to make the decision to lie to you..
There's a lot of shady background to my own life that people tend to clam up over, but I'm not gonna let that get in the way of my relationships with my loved ones..
They've got their reasons and I've learned to respect that
Dude, you need to let it go. It doesn't really matter in the long run, you need to look after your mum. She probably had her reasons for saying what she did in the past and right or wrong reasons it doesn't matter any more.
Much much better to forgive AND forget. Unforgiveness eats you up from inside and infects your whole family, it get passed on from generation to generation if you let it.
That's a huge shock, Tony, and your feelings are fully justified.
But . . . did your mother explain why she (and her family) decided to create this lie? Women were judged very harshly fifty years ago, and she may have felt she was "doing the right thing" for you.
Perhaps knowing a bit more about the circumstances might help you come to terms with this news?
<- That, reallyNo two people have the same perspective on a situation and I'm sure that your mum had your best interests at heart, even if she chose a course of action that you can't understand..Probably the best thing to do is to try to understand what led her to make the decision to lie to you
She made what she thought was the best decision even if it wasn't and even if it wasn't the same decision that you would have. Without doubt she didn't do it because she didn't trust you, and once that decision is made it is hugely difficult to reverse for fear of exactly what has happened 🙁
We tend to migrate towards people who think and make decisions on the same basis as us and reject people who do things that we think are wrong - even if those people are people we should really listen to. It's just much easier for us this way and reinforces our own idea of what's right.
The important bit is this 'i was brought up solely by my mother,' - I can't begin to imagine how difficult that is. It's difficult enough with two parents
I am so anti-social that the opportunity to have to forgive someone in the first place rarely occurs.
why was it kept a secret for so long.
would she have told me at all, if i had not told her about my issue.
She obviously couldn't bring herself to tell you, and your issue proved to be the catalyst which gave her the opportunity and courage to tell you. She had probably been wanting to tell you for a very long time.
She won't be around forever, and at 78 with poor health perhaps for not much longer. I can imagine how devastated you must feel but rather than being angry with her be grateful that she did eventually tell you before passing away, you had the right to know the truth.
Don't punish her for doing the right thing, even if it took her 49 years - as others have said I'm sure she had her reasons. If you don't forgive her you will be even more devastated when she finally passes away.
No , carrying a grudge helps me balance the chip on my other shoulder .
It takes quite a lot to get on to my shit list but once on it, there's no getting off. The list currently has three names, possibly four.
Ernie & Leffboy +1.
My heart goes out to you Ton. Having found out something similar a generation removed - it really shook me, so I have an idea of what you are going through.
..
..
she is 78 and lives alone. her health is not good, but i feel like i dont really care to be honest.
Man that sucks, & totally understand why you must be angry. However, presumably she had her reasons for denying you of the truth. She raised you.
My own experience of this is as follows, my Grandad was a bit of dick, as was my Uncle (Dad's brother) there was a family falling out, I'm not sure what it was about but it was serious enough for my Grandad & Uncle to stop talking to my Dad & my Aunt (Dad's sister). For years before this incident neither my Dad or my Aunt had any contact with my Uncle due to his dickish behaviour. Now roll forward a few years & my Aunt decided to try & build bridges with my Grandad. She finally tracked him down & my Dad got a call one from her one night, my Grandad had died 3 years previously. Obviously this news deeply affected them both & they've never really made peace with it.
It wasn't nice watching my Dad go through this & it almost ended my parents marriage.
So my advice to you would be forgive your mum, when she's gone you'll not be able to make peace & you'll carry it around with you for the rest of your days.
Well, stories like this often surface at the most inopportune moments.
Sadly for your Mother she chose a particularly stressful time to tell you, probably knowing that you'd be too stressed to do/say much about the situation. Seems she was right.
It's not uncommon either for Mothers to confide in daughters, situations beyond all recognition. This is a particularly tense and pointed situation.
What I find odd, sorry but I do, is your sisters lack of respect for you and the situation. I can't quite comprehend why they didn't tell you way back, regardless of what restrictions your Mother imposed on them.
So, ostracised and now on her own.. I'd definitely forgive.. no way on this planet I'd forget and I'd carry that to my maker. But there's only one overriding factor here, your Mother was brought up in a particularly odd enclosed period where matters of family were kept secret. You are Not, only you can face the angst and anger that's built up. Only one way of dealing with it and that's to face it.
Go see your Mother, I imagine she's as sad and mixed up and upset about the situation as you are.
Don't take your wife, go alone. There will be no threat or side taking that way.
Best of Luck, I do hope it all works out well for you all.
Surely how your mother cared for you over your life is more important than one fact which would have had little bearing on your upbringing, as whoever was your father wasn't present?
Ton, in your shoes, I think I might be able understand and maybe eventually accept my mother keeping such a thing secret, but that would depend very much on the circumstances, especially the reasons for doing it.
As I am sure you will remember and know better than many of us, being a single parent in the 1960s and 1970s was generally a lot harder than it is nowadays, and there was a great deal of social stigma to being a single parent, which often also affected the children concerned. I hope my using this word will not upset you, but at that time the word b*****d was a much stronger swear word than it is today, and it was used more in its literal traditional sense to mean a 'child born outside wedlock'. I can imagine a single parent mother in those days making a decision to conceal the parentage of her child to protect not only herself from social stigma, but possibly more so to protect the child. Sadly some adults and children can be extremely cruel and would readily use knowledge of any weakness to hurt others, and it's much much harder for a child to cope with social exclusion and bullying (especially by other children), than it is for the adult parent.
So the decision your mother took when you were a child may then have been for the best, and once that lie was accepted, it would become more and more difficult to tell you the truth with each passing year, even when you were an adult.
As to her telling you now, I think her reasons - as much as you can be confident of what they are - are key to how I would eventually view it. Did she tell you because she she felt she owed it to you to be honest, and because she considered it wrong to keep it from you any longer? I would not be so willing to forgive if I thought someone told me something which they knew would upset me greatly, but they had decided to do it anyway because it would make [u]them[/u] feel better (confession may be good for the soul, but it can be a fundamentally selfish act). In reality, I suspect it's a usually a mixture of motivations, and only you can decide whether to accept - or possibly even overlook - your mother's reasons.
However, in your shoes I think I would be most upset by her telling both your elder and younger sisters, and I would struggle to accept any excuse for that.
My advice to you would be to take as long as you need to process this information. Your mother has known the truth for half a century, and after so long and at her age she probably does not see it as being anywhere near as important or significant as you do. You on the other hand are only just now beginning to come to terms with what is a huge shock for you and a realisation that people whom you trusted implicitly have deceived and lied to you. So, in your situation, I would not be rushed into forgiving someone, and I would wait until I had come to terms with it myself before doing anything.
Was she otherwise a good mum to you? If so, then you have to accept the fact that she had her own reasons for not telling you (historical prejudice being one example) - [i]even if you might not agree with them[/i]. It's a bit harsh to judge her on this one thing, regardless of how it makes you feel.
Ton
Aged 18 I found out my brother was only my half brother. I discovered that my mum was divorced in the late sixties (still a very big deal then) on the grounds of marital cruelty after her husband attacked her, having previously shook/killed her second child (in the days when it wasn't investigated). She therefore married my dad in 1970, before I was born, my dad being from a Liverpool/Irish catholic family (think mrs browns boys) and marrying a divorcee with child, which again was a huge issue back then, with him being excommunicated from the church as a result.
As you can imagine, this was all a bit of a shock... did she do the right thing keeping all this from me as a child, growing up regarding my brother as my full brother? Too bloody right she did, and I wouldn't have blamed her if she never did. It certainly shook me a bit at the time, but I realise now how remarkable it was, and how remarkable a bloke my (now late) dad was to take on my mum and brother at a time when divorce was a real issue.
See things in that light, and you can maybe at least understand why she never told you, and that might make it easier to come to terms with, even if it hurts at the moment
No , carrying a grudge helps me balance the chip on my other shoulder .
Scottish, by any chance? 😉
For this sort of thing, I'm in the not forgive category. My family were, and indeed still are, shite. I have nothing to do with the lying, backstabbing, selfish twunts. The damage that they did and would, and I'm sure still are behind my back, continue to do is unforgivable.
I don't get this "they'll be gone one day" malarkey. They should have thought about that before.
I'd look at how much damage you feel you've suffered, and no one can tell you that as it's your own experience. Be sure that if you decide to cut ties that you're not alone.
rear all the replies.....and thanks.
just to add, I am still seeing my mother twice a week. and will do so until she passes away. I just don't feel like seeing her.
life eh...
Forgive her Ton, I was in exactly the same situation, my elder brother & sister knew but not me and I was born in the fifties. I knew life was hard for her, working long hours in a woolen mill for low pay and bringing up three kids on her own with virtually no state support but I always felt loved and wanted and apart from the usual shit everyone carries around, I think I've turned out ok. Life's too short, make peace.