[Closed] are VW worth the hype?

Top notch on every Vw I've ever had, certainly better than ford et al.

In my experience they are well put together, feel solid, and customer service exceeds their peers.

... but they are no more reliable, as I say ...[u]in my experience[/u] (Golf/Polo)

My Mk4 Golf was not reliable, sold it after about 8 months.

My Mk4 Golf was not reliable

+1

Most unreliable car i've owned.

Honest John review:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-iv-1998

Bad: Huge number of quality problems in direct contradiction to "Few things in life are as reliable as a Volkswagen" slogan, Ford Focus is better to drive"

I have owned Mk1,2,4 golfs and an 03 Transporter plus lots of other old bangers.

I also listen to people all day in my job as a barber.

I think Vw's still feel good quality but i think all modern cars are too complicated for there own good. Too many sensors you see...

I've had my Passat 130tdi for 6 years & basically my next car will be another Passat tdi. (Mines coming up to 195K on the clock.)

i'm not really sure what "Build Quality" refers to though? i'd always thought that referred to stuff like the 'clunk' the doors make when they shut, how rattly the interior is and how much road noise there is etc.. rather than how reliable they are.

No.

I had several problems with an early alfa 156, but the guy at the garage said the problems they were seeing on alfas were small compared to what they were getting from VW passats at their franchised dealership up the road.

My polo was average, but problems were made worse by crap servicing from the local VW garage, better when I went independent.

You will be lucky if your local VW garaged isn't staffed by a bunch of jumped up ****s who think they are doing you a favour by servicing your car or letting you test drive another.

And don't get a passat unless 1) you are an old man, or 2) you wish to drive and/or be perceived as an old man.

So mk4 golfs were unreliable as well as driving like sh1t? That must have been a downer 🙁

I think the reliability rep relates to the cars they used to make the 80's and 90's car. Thats not to say they make bad cars now, but the competition has caught up with them to a great extent. Back then the milage counter on the dash of most cars only had 5 digits. You could say the same about Volvo and safety, they made safety their selling point back in the day, but these days you'd probably be safer in a french car. However a reputation like that is extremely difficult to loose, VAG would have to be making some real turkeys, and making a lot of them, to shake off their reliability rep, I mean the Audi TT was rated the worst car you can buy for reliability, but its just not bad enough to dent the reputation, because these days even bad cars are quite good (except the Ford Ranger)

I've always been a bit dubious about VW's rep. I reckon one of the reasons they stayed on the road so long back then was that they would 'feel' good when they're old and knackered. An 80s/early 90s astra would run to almost as many miles as a golf, but in its dotage a golf would still have doors that slam nicely and a crisp gearbox, the astra would look and feel shagged and finding the gates in the gearbox was like conducting a seance. So when your polo/golf/passat/T4 barfed up its headgasket at [i]exactly[/i] 90,000miles (and everybody's did) you'd pay £500 to get it fixed because the car still felt new and 'they go on forever you know'. With a similar aged astra it [i]wouldn't[/i] blow its gasket but any minor ailment and you'd get shot of it because it was rattly and squeaky and seat springs were sticking in your arse.

Excellent post there skidartist. Articulated beautifully.

10/10

I had a 58 plate Golf TSi GT Sport earlier this year hire car for 4 weeks while mine (52 plate Mazda 323F Sport) was getting accident repaired. Honestly and truthfully, I could not wait to get the Mazda back. Golf was horrible inside, horrible gear change, crap seating position, and the 1.4 turbo/supercharged engine was very unrefined. All in my opinion only of course. I will say that it never broke down once in the 4 weeks, but neither has the Mazda in 5 years! 😆

Back in the 60s,70s and early 80s yes.
Not now.

Depends on luck and previous owners.

I've never had a Ford go wrong till my current car has a few things to fix to bring it back to A1.

BMW had a few niggles like aircon sensor - common issue in the 5 series but nothing major.

Just do some research on the car/model/checks and then keep some cash handy in case of repairs.

pre 1995 vw cars seem very well built, had a few. but after that i dare say id stay away but with the exception of the little lupo which is brilliant!

james.

My 2006 Passat (120k) has had nothing go wrong other than a failed parking brake switch (£60) and a new shock absorber needed at 100k.

It still feels as solid as ever, the seats haven't collapsed, the steering feels great, the gearbox is just the same as ever. Whereas a Mondeo I had (some years back, admittedly, but I had it from new) felt tired after 35k. Nothing broke on it, but the steering got sloppier, and the interior showed a fair amount of wear.

I'd defintely consider a VW again.

Its difficult for manufacturers to make a "bad" car now. The choice and availability are so great that any real "dogs" would go out of business pretty quickly.

I had several problems with an early alfa 156, but the guy at the garage said the problems they were seeing on alfas were small compared to what they were getting from VW passats at their franchised dealership up the road.

I've had a 156 and recently a 147. Both excellent cars and very solid and well screwed together. No more issues than any other cars I have owned and less than many. They suffered years ago with rust and reliability then more recently with electrics however the bad rep they had and the unwillingness of buyers to look beyond their poor history makes them a great seconf hand buy!
If they do have problems however they are more expensive to fix and parts are dearer. A very rewarding drive however.

We purchased a new VW a few years ago and were very dissapointed by the build quality. Trim quality was very poor - parts literally falling off and very rattly. So bad I would not buy VW again. Lots of stuff on the net saying the same thing - VW build quality is now a myth.

I'm sure molgrips will post soon to angrily defend his car 😉

It also depends on how you treat a car.
With my Alfa's I stuck rigidly to service intervals and did regular interim oil changes. I checked the oil and fluids regulalrly and topped it up with the best Mobil fully synthetic when required. Other than big item failures (I had a flywheel that broke in a Peugeot which hit the casing causing an oil leak and needed circa £1100 of work!) which cant really be mitigated against many smaller problems seem to happen to people who dont lift the bonnet between services.

Somebody I know well had an engine disintergrate as it ran out of oil and basically seized. He recently bought a new car and still hasnt been in for its first service despite being over the mileage and had to have it "carried" back to the garage last week due to a problem. He will no doubt complain about the car and how unlucky he is!!!!!

I had a Bora and it cost me a fortune, ended up giving away because I couldn't in good conscience sell it. Cracked gearbox casing, 2 window regulators, intermittent power failures, endless other niggles. Felt like it had built by a drunk YTS employee on a Friday afternoon. Never again.

I didn't realise they wee hyped, just decent middle quality cars.

no better than most other make of car

I actually think toyotas feel more solidly built than VW

I've had 4 Golfs - two Mark II GTi's, a MK IV GTi 25th Anni and currently running a MK V R32. Mrs M also had a Polo for a while.

None of them has ever broken down and pretty much nothing has gone wrong with any of them - although they have been bought either new or low mileage 1 year old.

In the past VW were streets ahead on build quality. There is less difference now, but IMO they are still ahead, and some new VW's are actually cheaper than the equivelant Ford.

Build quality is not just about reliability however - it's also about quality, fit, finish,cabin design, plastics quality, handling etc which is where they are still streets ahead of the likes of Ford and Vauxhall.

Because of the better quality, real or perceived, VW's hold their value better than other cars so make decent financial sense as well.

All manufacturers have their good and bad periods - look at Mercedes up to about 5 years ago, and some BMW's.

I've had a mk2 GTi (got to 12 years old and 180k miles), a mk3 GTi 16v, a horrible but reliable Passat estate (1990) and a mk4 R32 - all have been pretty damn good with only minor stuff needing doing. Had the mk3 for ages and it never missed a beat.

Dad's mk3 Gti 16v has just been sold and was tired but still good, his 1990 2.1 Transporter keeps on going and both my sisters have reliable mk4 Golfs.

Some say the quality has slipped over the years but I'd still trust them. Having said that, my last VW was the mk4 R32 and sold that 6 years ago!

Having owned, Fords, Vauxhalls, Opels, BMWs and VWs and driven all sorts of others my favourite is the Vw Golf. Had a mk3 since 2002 and just bought a mk4, no complaints at all.

Kev

Mrs FD bought a new Polo just under 2 years ago. I thought it was the most craply put together car I've driven in its class. The dashboard was cheap, brakes gears and engine rubbish, handling awful. The good thing about it was the visablity which is about the best of any car I have driven recently.

Other than that I last drove a Passat about 5 years ago (company fleet vehicle) the gearbox was shocking and the car just felt dull and uninspiring. The company were considering stopping VW leasing as they were having so many faults.

I think if you want a dull to drive car, then VW are ok, but the build quality etc is certainly these days no better than Ford etc, and leagues behind in terms of handling.

The 2.0 diesel unit isnt as refined as the Ford equivalent either.

Fairly happy with our Touran, build quality is Ok although we've had a couple of pieces of trim fall off, one in the engine bay that then interferred with the fan blades. Dealership was OK, not great. There again I've had experience of Renault, after that nearly any car is excellent.

"Is the build quality on VW's real or is it just a myth? "
Venus Williams is quality, not so sure about Vivien Westwood though.

I have a 05 reg mark 5 Golf GT TDi - had since new - very reliable, service interval long, had a faulty bonnet catch and that is it - oh and battery on the remote key fob has just given up - done 90k mile in it, average probably closer to 45mpg but have had 72mpg on a journey a long journey to Sunderland cruising at 55mph behind the lorries - drinks engine oil, needs a top up every 8k miles - has done since new

OK, I'm what you might call a bit of a fanboy when it comes to VW / VAG.
Over the years I've had
1988 Polo CL
1989 Golf GTI
1997 Golf GTI
2004 Golf GTTDI
2005 Octavia TDI
2006 Seat Ibiza TDI

In all I have covered over Quarter of a Million miles in VWs of various ages over the last 11 years or so and the only thing that has ever gone wrong is a clutch went in the 1989 golf, that was in 2001 after the car had covered 140K. Everything else spent was routine maintainance.

i think all modern cars are too complicated for there own good. Too many sensors you see...

Those sensors are there for lots of good reasons.

the car just felt dull and uninspiring

That's a matter of taste not engineering. I love driving my Passat. You can't throw it around because it's sprung softly and rolls, but that's because they designed it that way to give comfortable cruising. Which I like.

It's hard to separate reliability from design/quality issues. For example, 2.0 TDI engines have a bad rep because a certain batch of them were made with a poorly designed oil pump which would give up and instantly kill the engine and/or inferior quality injectors. If you got one with neither of those issues you'd have many years of trouble free motoring.

EDIT: DJ, you seem to be changing your cars frequently lately. Perhaps this is why you have had few problems?

Mk2 Golf Driver, 000s of miles - brilliant car aside from usual issues on that vintage of warm hatch (disks, pads, etc). '02 Passat, 120,000 miles - nae issues. Mk4 Golf GT TDI for two years and 80,000 miles - loads of hassle. Mk5 GTI, 3 years and 90,000 miles - some hassle at very the start with various engine management sensors. Mk5 GTI Ed30 DSG, 2 years and 60,000 miles - not missed a beat (touch wood).

Putting the mk4 down as a ropey vintage, and the first GTI's early problems as teething trouble (it was among the first in to the country).

djg - now you've got me thinking...

'86 mk2 GTi which my mum bought at a year old. She did 100k miles in it, I did 80k.
'90 Passat estate - not a nice car but still did 40k miles in it.
'97 mk3 Gti 16v - did 60k miles in it
'03 mk4 R32 Golf - did 24k miles in it.

So a total of 204k miles in VWs. You win!

EDIT: DJ, you seem to be changing your cars frequently lately. Perhaps this is why you have had few problems?

No not really, had the Golf GTTDI from new (company car) I've had the Skoda 2 years and just bought the Seat, as a second car.

All the older cars came from a time when I was younger, skinter and running older cars.

So I've acquired VW's that cover a wide spectrum of age and milage from new to very old and never had problems, thats the point.

I have a fish (molly) called Bob, who rates the ride quality of VW's as survivable. He prefers the softer handling as choppy water is a real pisser aparently.

Saying that my neighbours dog thinks they are overrated & the best thing you can do with a VW is cock your leg against one!

My Mark IV Golf is a reliability nightmare - loads of wide scale problems eg coil packs, MAF sensors, window motor clips, central locking mechanism, engine fans etc etc.

All very expensive to get fixed when they fail.

my passat was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

unreliable, and expensive to fix.

my mk1 golf was brilliant, but unreliable, and expensive to fix.

A couple of years ago I took a brand new 2.0 TDi [I think] Golf from our office in Guildford to deliver it to our York office.

It's final resting place was a BP garage on the A3 - grand total of about 10 miles before the engine let go - thrown rod apparently

my passat was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

My three have been great. First one, a B3 cost me £250 and started to burn oil at about 160k, gave it to my sister and it did another 20k. It was not really reliable though in the end - electrical issues presumably caused by not having an undertray. Engine light would come on occasionally and a couple of times it conked out completely whilst driving for about half an hour, then start working fine.

Second was a B4 with the legendary 1.9 TD fully mechanical engine. I passed it on at about 185k miles whereupon the turbo failed, although I'd fixed water pump and PS pump myself. I am strongly tempted to point the finger at the mechanically inept new owner though who ran it really low on oil. They now reckon it needs suspension bushings, but I am sceptical.

Third is my 2006 one which took two goes to start Sunday and this morning, which I'm not too happy about.

Second was a B4 with the legendary 1.9 TD fully mechanical engine.

Errrmm- "legendary" in what way?!

It was very reliable... Plus in its original form it was the first (I believe) big step along the road to today's refined diesels and as such was a pretty important motor I reckon.

I read a VW internal white paper from the mid 70s where they were putting forward their plan for making nice passenger diesels. I think their first diesel came out in 76.

I see - my sister has that engine in her 130bhp diesel mk4. So far so good.

Not nearly as angry as I was expecting. Shame 😉

That's the 1.9 TD not TDI. I don't think there was a 130bhp version. Mine was 75!

TD = turbo diesel, TDI = turbo direct inkection. Direct injection is more efficient but noisier and smokier, until someone invented computer control. The TD was very smooth indeed though, almost as good as a CR though and better than my PD.

Hers is a 130PD - whatever that is. Never really got "into" VW diesels after disappoinment with the 150PD.

The first ones were TD, indirect injection. Then it was TDI for electronic direct injection. Then PD was the next thing, where instead of one rotary injector pump you have one injector per cylinder embedded in the head, driven off the camshaft. It gives very high injection pressures (higher than CR) which is good, but the timing of the injection is limited because you can only inject when the cam is on. That's why PD engines used to give a huge slug of torque at low revs then fall flat.

Then they finally went to Common Rail long after everyone else had - you can inject at any time in the cycle which means you can advance it loads at higher revs for better pulling. And you can pre-inject lots of tiny bits of fuel for better smoothness.

Sorry - got carried away there...

Mol - I lap this kind of stuff up so carry on!

Well that's about it really. Except that explains why they sell special oil for PD engines. Because there are cams for activating the valves but also another set of cams for the injectors, the cams are half the size so to avoid wear you need special lube. It must work though because 1.9PDs are very reliable - although if you are buying an old one a home mechanic might not've realised it.

I made a point of trying to understand everything about my TD engine. Lovely piece of kit, and some mental enthusiasts in Canada and the US. The 75bhp 1.9 could be made to deliver 230bhp. Now that's tuning.

Yes, I am an owner of VW Golf for nearly 12 years, will buy another VW car again, very solid and reliable, plenty of VW's out on the roads so they must be good.

So a total of 204k miles in VWs. You win!

We had two mk1 VW Caddys, one did 270k the other 160k. Nothing more than regular oil/fuel/air filter changes, brakes, exhausts and tyres. Rust did for them in the end.

Edit My old Passat tdi did 160k when the the crankshaft pulley came loose in Perpignan.

Circa 590 miles in 3 VWs

Old ones were a cut above. Since the MK IV that's no longer the case.

My dad bought Golfs regularly since the 1970s and I've been driving my aged Polos into the ground for 20 years. Until the late 90s Golfs were among the nicest cars in their class. Not the fastest or liveliest handling, but solid and reliable, just like the adverts.

On the MK 4 Golf and the subsequent 52-reg Polo he's had recurring issues, mainly gizmos rather than mechanical breakdowns. The Polo's filler cap solenoid failed twice. Heater probs and other niggles (leccy mirrors and/or windows IIRC) too. To date the 57-reg replacement has been fine.

And VW dealers are invariably arrogant tossers.

I sold my MK2 Polo with 190k on the clock, running as sweet as a nut. The current one shows 160k, now doing 5k p.a. as I ride my bike to work. I've clocked up 210k between them.

We've a 130hp TDi in our Galaxy, & 130 TDCi in our Mondeo. The TDi is leagues ahead in terms of refinement. The TDCi sounds rough even when young.

Over the last 7 years I've driven (long enough to assess)

'53 Mazda 6 2ltr 140bhp TD
'56 VW Passat 2ltr 140bhp TD
'06 BMW 318 2ltr 120bhp TD
'08 Toyota Avensis 2ltr TD ???bhp
'06 Audi A4 1.9ltr 120bhp TD

The Mazda was a great car, the Audi mebbe ok, but very tired, hated the beemer, the Avensis was quite possibly the shittest modern car I've ever had the misfortune to drive.

The Passat was head and shoulders above all of them. Maybe not [i]the[/i] most involving car to drive, but for build quality, comfort, refinement and a touch of class it has the rest beaten hands down. They notoriously use oil though.

My current drive is totally different, being a Ford Ranger pick-up. Love it to bits though.

Why did you hate the BMW out of interest?

Also I don't think a lowly 318d (the 120bhp version being the lamest they've done more or less) is a great car to judge the entire BMW brand by.

It gets out-dragged by old ladies in wheelchairs.

He isn't judging the entire brand, is he?

I'll stick to my Alfa's at least i'll look good in my broken down rusty car 😉

He isn't judging the entire brand, is he?

He might be.

Lol@Mat!

Never driven any other than the one in question, so no I'm not judging the brand as a whole, just giving my opinion as I find.

Despite being underpowered, it probably was about as quick as the 140bhp cars I've had. However, considering it probably costs as much, if not more thant the Passat, I found it small (inc tiny boot), cramped, uncomfortable, had no standard equipment and was a totally bland environment to sit in.

I had 5-6 years driving lots of VW golfs / passats as company cars ~30K pa(2000-2005 ish). Generally OK reliabilty wise but nothing special compared to other makes (as seen in reliabilty surveys). The dealers though were terrible. Amazingly bad in fact. Maybe I was unlucky but it put me off the brand.

I had a 318d M Sport saloon loan car for a couple of days. Just over 140bhp so pretty slow yet with the kit it had, it added up to £30k - for a bottom of the range saloon with a weeny engine! I felt a right t1t in it - all show, not much go embodied in one car.

Higher end models get a lot more kit as standard, get better seats and obviously go a lot faster.

Just over 140bhp so pretty slow

140bhp is a lot for some of us! Most powerful car I've ever driven.

390bhp (inlaws 355) for me, then 375bhp (750i), then 366bhp (Evo FQ-360). Not beaten 400 yet - dammit.

BM is the torqueyest car I've ever driven 😀 but a mere 286bhp.

Had 2 Polos, a Passat and now a Bora

The Bora's a cheap runabout second car, not bought because it was a VX but because it were cheap. I'm happy with the "build quality" a few issues though in designs such as the drinks holder completely obscuring the radio when in use and a protective sump guard that everytime you go over a bump smacks off the sump guard and makes your bum go funny because you think there's something wrong with the suspension.

(inlaws 355)

You marry into money then, or have yer own to start with? 😉

I thought despite being 2ltr, 318's were all 120bhp, with the 320's being 140bhp. M-Sport badge making no difference.

Made our own but they paid for the wedding 😉

BMW 318i (current shape which yours would have been) - some were 127bhp then 140bhp
318d - 120 then 140bhp.

Think the higher outputs came later on.

M Sport simply adds some bodykit, bigger wheels and some slightly tacky "M Sport" badges. If anything, the added weight probably makes them slightly slower.

My VW is going strong after 45 years. Although it is a bit like Trigger's broom, it has had a body resto and a new engine.

My sensible family car is a 2005 Passat 1.9 TDI and I have had no problems with it. I bought it at 100k and it now has 120k on it. It feels like it will go for another 120k. A colleague had one with well over 300k on it. Engine was fine but mounts / bushes were past their best.

Just sold my Golf MK4 TDI Estate. Very reliable but possible the worst handling car I've ever had. Nicknamed the Barge. Dynamically poor in just about every regard. Having said that it was cheap to run, easy to fix when something failed and always passed its MOT. The hand me down Focus from my wife has been just as reliable though and is 10 times better to drive.