[Closed] Are gypos like migratory birds?

Yes, they're both protected species 😉

If you are asking us if travellers travel I think the answer is a yes.

Edit: Probably shouldn't 8)

i got banned from the forum once for talking about travelling folk and the crap they leave behind. admittedly my solution to the problem was somewhat extreme, but i think if implemented the problem would go away.....

Don't get me started!

I ****ing hate them with a passion.

There are a group on the common land just outside Thetford at the moment. They are gradually accumulating a pile of old fridges. Any bets on them be taken away and properly cleared up when they leave...... yes by the local authority do I hear you cry?

Now what boils my piss is that you need a licence to carry waste. They won't have one and therefore an offence is being committed very publically and openly. Do the old bill do anything about it? No of course not.

Compare that to me, I'm a tax payer and local resident. If I take my refuse to the local tip I get quizzed on whether its commercial, I have to sort it, cow-two to the refuse nazi's and have random rules applied, like for example you can only tip two bags of rubble in one visit and any more than that is deemed to be demolition waste whatever that means!

So someone plaase justify to me why these twunts can just do as they please whilst costing everyone else a fortune and contributing nothing??

My village ended up with a £40,000 clear up bill the last time we had the pleasure of their company for a week. So c'mon Gordon what you going to do about it eh????

BIGOT!

You're damn right! Thats me, a bigot with a vote so now whats he going to do about it??

i got banned from the forum once for talking about travelling folk and the crap they leave behind

No Alpin; you got banned for suggesting they should be burned or gassed or something. Which is pretty ****ing nasty, don't you think? That Human Beings should be treated thus, just for making a bit of mess?

admittedly my solution to the problem was somewhat extreme, but i think if implemented the problem would go away.....

A Final Solution, perhaps?

Berm Bandit, it doesn't fall under the old bill to deal with environmental crime. Fly-tipping / illegal waste disposal is the responsibility of the Environment Agency and your local authority. So best grumble at them instead

There's travellers, and there's messy c**ts. There is some overlap.

Last year they decided to set fire to some of the trees surrounding the car park and smash all of the street lights down there.

The year before I walked past one of the caravans and a little girl of about 4 came running out and then I heard the mother shout, "Donna-Marie! Donna-Marie! Come back here or I will kill ya, ya f*****g bastard!"

No Alpin; you got banned for suggesting they should be burned or gassed or something. Which is pretty ****ing nasty

If you had not snipped the quote off at a convenient point to validate your reply, then you would have seen he acknowledged this.

i got banned from the forum once for talking about travelling folk and the crap they leave behind. [b]admittedly my solution to the problem was somewhat extreme,[/b]

Fly-tipping / illegal waste disposal is the responsibility of the Environment Agency and your local authority. So best grumble at them instead

Not IME. Police were very interested when I reported one incident. And they weren't travellers, just scum. Most of the stuff fly tipped around here seems to be garden and building waste.

it doesn't fall under the old bill to deal with environmental crime.

So like I said whats he going to do about it. I've got the problem, what I'm looking for is an answer!

Seems the diddy-coys have sussed it, as illegal waste disposal seems to be their new game of choice. Do you reckon the bottoms fallen out of the driveway business?

but he added

but i think if implemented the problem would go away

My village ended up with a £40,000 clear up bill the last time we had the pleasure of their company for a week. So c'mon Gordon what you going to do about it eh????

My Local Health Authority ends up every year with a bill for many millions, to treat people, many of them children, for respiratory illnesses and problems caused mainly by traffic pollution. Traffic pollution caused very much by people who don't live in the borough.

I wonder who's going to do anything about that?

Traffic pollution caused very much by people who don't live in the borough.

What no one in your borough drive or receive any services etc from people who do then?

We had some travellers outside my work recently, they left behind a big mess when they went including quite a bit of human excrement left in our car park.

BB; most of the traffic at peak times is transitionary; people travelling through the borough to get elsewhere. People not delivering 'services' to the borough, generally, no.

Just making the point that the environmental impact is far greater than a bit of fly-tipping.

I don''t, however have any xenophobic agenda to match that on here however.

are you in favour of their lifestyle though ?

I don't understand why councils have to provide sites for them (I know it's the law, but why maorally). So I choose to buy a great big caravan and wander around the country leaving physical and social destruction in my wake and I get special treatment as a reward. These days it's purely a lifestyle choice, it's got sod all to do with ethnicity or any other such cobblers and it costs everybody else who lives within the norms of society a lot of money. The cost of schooling travelling kids alone is ridiculous.

If people not categorised as travellers behaved in a similar way they'd soon be in trouble for all sorts of environmental crime, not ensuring their kids are in school, squatting, the list goes on.

I just genuinely don't understand why they get specialist treatment, is it some perverse interpretation of race relations policy?

Xenophobic??

Not sure where you get that from.... all I want is for them to be treated equally with the rest of us..... you know? pay taxes, receive services, live under the same legal framework. Not sure how thats xenophobic, I'm more than happy to share both my burdens and the rewards for them with anyone.

PS: Regarding environmental impact, thats not frankly my point. My point is hwy is my environmental impact policed and any failure to comply punished when theirs isn't?

are you in favour of their lifestyle though ?

I must confess that I, like I suspect most people on here, have very little knowledge of 'their' lifestyle, so feel ill-equipped to comment or pass judgement.

I live in an area that is also inhabited by quite a number of travelling people. The vast majority that I've encountered seem to be quite nice really. I'm sure there are rogue elements, but then the same is true of those who live in more permanent abodes.

I do understand that there are some who experience certain issues for which they may receive certain help and social services. As is their legal right, like all other people. I don't consider them any different, in that regard.

I live in an area that is also inhabited by quite a number of travelling people

Is that an oxymoron by any chance?

Is that an oxymoron by any chance?

No. Why would it be?

Are there still some travellers in residence in the car park at the bottom of lee quarry? had to blag a light from one of them the other week for my post ride ciggy, they were making tea on a campfire listening to soul, they seemed right enough, though they did have a cock in a little cage, budget alarm clock or cock-fighting?
Coincidentally if anyone finds a metal clipper lighter up in lee quarry could they let me know via stw? i liked that lighter.

Xenophobic??

Not sure where you get that from.... all I want is for [b]them[/b] to be treated equally with the rest of [b]us[/b]

Sic.

ill-equipped to comment or pass judgement

fair comment, I'm in the same boat myself, never had much to do with travellers, however ..

The vast majority of them seem to be quite nice really.

I think this opinion is a tad controversial !

😉

Local school near me made the local papers recently when one school kid called another a pikey (as the said kid was a 'traveller')... Next day the traveller kid mum turns up at the school to try and resolve this....

....Knife in hand and going loco by all accounts!!! Yeah, they're the salt of the earth.

Still, must be some progress, as this one was in school! He must of got lost walking his dag.

I don't understand why councils have to provide sites for them (I know it's the law, but why maorally). So I choose to buy a great big caravan and wander around the country leaving physical and social destruction in my wake and I get special treatment as a reward. These days it's purely a lifestyle choice, it's got sod all to do with ethnicity or any other such cobblers and it costs everybody else who lives within the norms of society a lot of money. The cost of schooling travelling kids alone is ridiculous.

Still, must be some progress, as this one was in school! He must [b]of[/b] got lost walking his dag.

Let's hope he did slightly better than you, eh? 😉

Like fish in a barrel, this...

Is that an oxymoron by any chance?

No. Why would it be?

If you live in an area that is inhabited by travellers then by that token they clearly aren't travelling are they?

You don't live here by any chance do you? [url= http://www.habitants.org/zero_evictions_campaign/zero_evictions_alert_datacards/dale_farm_crays_hill_basildon_essex_uk ]An area inhabitated by travellers[/url]

If you live in an area that is inhabited by travellers then by that token they clearly aren't travelling are they?

Did I specify that they are in permanent or even long term residency? Don't think I did...

then by that token they clearly aren't travelling are they

It's called a[URL= http://www.yourdictionary.com/transient ]Transient population (see definition 2)[/url]

EG - You can also live in a place populated by holidaymakers.

It strikes me as a desperately grim life, I can't see the attraction. Was it easier, less fraught and more pleasant 100 years ago, Wind In The Willows style?

Did I specify that they are in permanent or even long term residency? Don't think I did...

Just asking, because there are two sorts that I know of, those that stay for along time, and those that know exactly how long the legal process to move them on takes, and leave the night before service of the eviction notice.

I personally would be very impressed if you managed to have any sort of dialogue with this latter group. Not least because you would do extremely well to understand what they said if, and it’s a very big if they would even talk to you.

Interestingly, I have very mixed views on the Dale Farm situation. I don't agree with their decision to totally ignore planning law, but for the reasons mentioned by Big dummy (It strikes me as a desperately grim life), I can see their point.

Not got alot good to say about em....as i have just posted on a thread a few places up from this they have chased me a few times with a view of taking the bike from under me which i escaped from(albeit knackered and frantic), and last year i nearly got clothes lined in the dark...litterally, as i biked through an encampment and then got a load of abuse for the bare cheek of riding through their turf!! they were camped on a public cycle way in the city...

I don’t understand why councils have to build roads and educate the children of people who live in houses

OK, I think you're being deliberately obtuse there. The council is there to provide services to the people in it's area. However they have limited resources so therefore can not provide every service to every person. The point I'm making which you no doubt understood was that I don't understand why one group who make a lifestyle choice so far out of the norm get specialist treatment. others who make lifestyle choices outside of the norm don't get preferential treatment. To take your recycling analogy, people get into trouble for putting recyclable materails into general waste. The council has made a decision their lifestyle choice is not compatible with the operations of the council yet the government decided the much more extreme lifestyle choice of travellers should be accomodated. Still haven't heard a valid reason why this would be. In an ideal world we'd all live the lifestyle of our choice. We're not in that place and have to live together which means we all need to moderate our lifestyle choices so as not to detract from others choices to much.

Junkyard wrote

EDIT: yes davidr that is the kind of attutude that will make them want to engage positively with society

On the contrary, they are very happy to engage positively with society and take full advantage of education, health services etc. Problem is that they haven't quite comes to terms with the taxation aspect which enables them to enjoy these services!

the thing that got me last time - and still does - is the amount of shit they leave behind once they've moved on. not many of you may be familiar with Thorndon Common, but those of you who are may remember the shit hole state it was left in after they moved on.

human shit, fire pits, household waste, plastic bags full of stuff, nappies... it took ages till all remnants of their camping expedition had been removed.

why should my money go toward clearing up their shit once they've moved on?

and i didn't use to live that far away from Cray's Hill - the UK's largest pikey camp. my mate' nan still does and the locals (who have grown up their, paid their coucil taxes and generally cared about the area for years) suffer lots of anti-social problems because of it. she's often phoned the police because kids were jumping gardens, kicking balls against cars and generally beiong little shits.

the old bill don't do anything about it because they're scared of the reaction they'll recieve upon entering the site.

and compared to someone who wants all fixie riders removed from the streets of london, my views are perhaps more in line with those of main stream society.

and i'm not some conservative fascist, i just feel that for someone to be treated well by others they shouldn't be complete wänkers and **** up everyone else's environment.

I have had lots of mixed experiences with traveller types, we have a permanent camp near us and seem to get lots of travelling one's coming through, some nice some not so

I have had lots of mixed experiences with people who live in houses, some nice some not so

It must be getting very hard for the travelling ones as most of the places they were when we were kids have barriers etc, I often wonder what has happened to most of them as there's nowhere near as many as when I was a kid

and i'm not some conservative fascist

No, I'd say you're pretty much a full on one...

Why is it acceptable to have a racist insult in the title of this thread?

Would you be equally happy to use the N word or the P word?

The point I'm making which you no doubt understood was that I don't understand why one group who make a lifestyle choice so far out of the norm get specialist treatment

the government decided the [b]much more extreme lifestyle choice of travellers [/b]should be accomodated. Still haven't heard a valid reason why this would be. In an ideal world we'd all live the lifestyle of our choice. We're not in that place and have to live together which means we all need to moderate our lifestyle choices so as not to detract from others choices to much

Yes I can tell from your post that you have clearly moderated your lifestyle to accommodate others choices your humanitarinism shines through like a beacon of tolerance and cooperative living for us all to aspire too 🙄

Why is it acceptable to have a racist insult in the title of this thread?

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy[/url]

[i] I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.[/i]

I'd say that to a large extent it's a necessity in some form for any social species.

What specialist treatment are they asking for ? I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.

Nonsense. When did it become acceptable for me to enter someone elses property without their permission, live there as long as I choose, dump my crap all over the place and then leave expecting the landowner to carry the cost and responsibility for my behaviour?

Incidentally, could you and talky email me your home addresses? I think my chums at Thetford would like to know of a place where they are so welcome when they move on. And no I'm not joking, I really mean it I will gladly pass your details on to them, and I promise that I will do so should you provide them to me.

Talkemada - Member

[i] and i'm not some conservative fascist[/i]

No, I'd say you're pretty much a full on one...

brilliant... and with that i'm off down to the local NPD headquaters to pay my monthly membership fees.....

schwanz.

schwanz

Boogah.

If you live in an area that is [b]inhabited[/b] by travellers then by that token they clearly aren't travelling are they?

The word is [b]infested[/b], like with fleas or other parasites

Just for the record, in both legal and moral terms, how far away do we think all this malarkey is from digging and riding trails on land you aren't supposed to be on? (guilty a little bit on first count and massively on the second BTW)

LHS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy

Tinkers sounds quite quaint.

Whatever you call them, and whatever you think of their travelling ways, the problem I have is with them leaving a trail of dstruction and wake of rubbish behind them.

Why should 'we' feel bad and be chastised for making comments about 'them'? Why can't 'they' just behave in a more socially responsible way? 'They hardly' do much to endear themselves to the societies that they move into and leave behind to clean up the mess.

LHS - What does that prove?

BB the council has a duty to provide sites for gypsies/travellers it is not their fault your council does not do this? Perhaps you should complain to them that they do not provide anything appropriate with bins and say refuse collection.
I have lived with travellers and gypsies in the past and some of them are ok and some of them are c0cks i have lived with non travellers and feel the same about them and MTBers who clearly never take their bikes where they are not allowed to go . do not damage national parks . countryside and never leave any sign that they have been there when they leave like say inner tubes in trees

http://www.questroute.com/onlinegames/fighting/pikey.php

Junkyard you and your keyboard skills... 🙄

perhaps you should don one of these, just to show there's no prejudice, then nip down for a chat

[img] [/img]

"Now listen here my good man....."

My typos rarely detract from peoples ability to get what I meant but I was rushing to leave work! surely a noble cause but I corrected it for you.
Perhaps you could petition STW for a spell check I am sure they would be delighted to hear from you 😉

BB the council has a duty to provide sites for gypsies/travellers it is not their fault your council does not do this?

Thanks for the patronising lesson, but what makes you think there aren't any where I live? There are in fact 3 within 10 miles. You can easily spot them, they are the places with burnt out cars all around in the surrounding lanes, and which are no go areas for the Police.

do no tdamage national praks . countryside and never leave any sign that they ahve been there when they eave like say inner tubes in trees

May I suggest that you try to refrain from doing that which you accuse me of, you know sweeping generalisations? Personally I am extremly careful not to cause any damage or impact where I ride and I certainly never leave anything behind knowingly. On the other hand were I to do so, it might also be said that I do contribute to the costs incurred in sorting it out. So thats that one cleared up. Next fatuous argument please

Personally I'm really interested to hear more of your time with "gypsies". Sounds more like you've been away with the fairies frankly! My experience is that as an outsider you'll be lucky to get away without serious harm if you "trespass" on their patch.... (oh the irony!) Or are you actually talking about "new age interlopers"?

If you are having a chat with them, tell them not to bother returning my lawnmover, I've purchased a new one!

I sometimes despair at how much ignorance there still is about Travellers, Gypsies, Tinkers, Romanies, New Agers etc etc. Especially on this forum that normally has a good reputation for reasoned & intelligent debate

There are some statements here that were probably made in pre-war Germany, have we learned nothing?

The people who made the god awful mess are a world away from traditional Gypsies and Romanies. It's no wonder this sector of our community resent people not from within their own community coming into their areas given the racism, hatred & abuse they suffer. I witnessed much of this in the 60's & 70's when there were no laws to protect them.It made my blood run cold to see how these people were victimised and physically abused for nothing more than belonging to a seperate group. From this systematic abuse sprang a community that closed itself off from its abusers and became very insular, and still is.

My wife's Mother has roots in the Romany community, (and yes she has always had a house that is the kept in absolute spotless condition) But has hidden her roots for fear of abuse and victimisation.

Keep the hate & bile focussed on those who are actually causing the harm & destruction and do not paint many different sectors of the population with the same brush of hatred, in that way lies madness.

I've no problem with people living an alternate lifestyle from others and I'm not judging their choices. I just want to know why a certain small section of the population who have a fairly well deserved reputation for causing other people problems get preferential treatment in the form of campsites, special education liason officers and all sorts of other extras that certainly are not available to everyone else living a significantly different lifestyle to the norm.

What you have to conform to your view of normal to get the same human rights as you?

Who mentionned human rights, I'm asking questions about extra entitlements not available to the majority. As for my view of normal, most people do surprisingly enough live in one place which in someway they have purchased or rented, not my personal view, just the way it is.

Yes I can tell from your post that you have clearly moderated your lifestyle

So it's ok for me to camp in someone elses garden, break into their property, dump crap all over their lawn then **** off to do it to someone else?

Cool.

I've told you lot before, you can't call these people 'gypo's. Due to political correctness they should be now known as,
Caravan
Utilising
Nomadic
Traveller
(S)

My experience is that as an outsider you'll be lucky to get away without serious harm if you "trespass" on their patch...

Rode past an illegal gypsy camp on my way home this evening. One of the lads actually ran down the track to make sure that their two dogs were causing me no bother. It's amazing what a smile and a few pleasant words can achieve. Their camp is no beauty spot, that's for sure, in contrast to another I know 10 miles up the drove. Something drives people to want to live in those kind of conditions. I don't know what it is, but I don't envy them.

preferential treatment in the form of campsites, special education liason officers and all sorts of other extras

I guess the theory is that with support from society you might encourage future generations to return to the fold. If their children are poorly educated and the only opportunites shown to them are criminal endeavours, their future is set. WRT campsites the other alternative is to have mass trespass, not very manageable.

Jon, they may not have the right to live as they are by law, but they ARE doing it. I really don't see how you can stop the lifestyle. Sure you can take their homes away, but then you have homeless people. You can harass them continually, but then you're only distancing them further. From the little I've seen, it does not seem an especially pleasant existence.

I've a friend who works with disadvantaged kids, both from local gypsy camps and the council estates. The gypsy kids are apparently much nicer and better behaved...

what really gets at me, is the local travellers to me, turn up in the tesco where we do our weekly shop, while i go round with my kids, pay for what i want, they come in, shout swear and generally annoy other shoppers, then help themselves to what they like, give it to the kids who then bugger off out the door without being challenged, and pay for the odd item, and dont get me started on the mob going round nicking copper, who put mine and colleagues lives at risk, when we go to operate high voltage switchgear.................

I don't have a great deal of sympathy for these people, they are part of the lumpen proletariat. They detract from their social and material environment and they contribute little but cause lots of damage at everyone else's expense. I take a similar view to the Lloyd Blankfeins and Philip Greens of this world, who do enormous damage in the pursuit of self-interest.

seems to me that for every nice traveller there are umpteen robbing thieving shit-in-your-plant-pot travellers causing grief and costing the taxpayer money giving nothing back to society apart from shonky driveways and a happy scrappy in hooky metal
.
majority rules
arseholes

[i]I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.[/i]

Any place I've seen tinkers in Scotland they've left behind them a filthy, disgusting mess, and generally local communities are inflicted with increased crime and vandalism, with the police either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. It's not about telling them how to live their lives, it's about them not making life miserable for the people they inflict themselves on.

Admittedly there are plenty of non-tinkers too who are just as bad of course, if not worse. You see them in every large town or city. Anti-social scum.

The problem with providing sites is that there are two distinct groups, and they don't co-exist very well. One's the original Rom, the other's a more recent arrival, the Irish tinkers or diddycoys, or pikey, if you like. Swindon provided a really nice site years ago, close to a cycle route. When I went through there after the families had been evicted, the site looked like part of Kosovo, totally trashed, every facility either smashed or ripped off the walls and stolen. Several burned out cars, dozens of empty gas cylinders, (why do they dump them? Don't you get refills?). Locally we have a site that's been in existence for donkey's years, but a few years ago the original families bought a small plot alongside the main A4 and set up there, because they couldn't tolerate the noise, aggression and damage caused by more recent arrivals. The little lane that leads past the site was totally fenced off because of the trash that was being dumped on it, I counted four burned out cars, a couple of wrecked trailers, and more gas bottles. Guess which ethnic group caused the damage in both instances, and which moved out, despite having lived happily there for twenty or more years. The Rom simply will not share with them, and I can't say I blame them. They are a genuine distinct racial group who've been repeatedly persecuted for centuries, and now they have to put up with crap from another itinerant group who expect the moon on a stick and repay the kindness like chimps throwing their own excrement. Irish residents are, however, perfectly happy to see the pikeys move over here, for obvious reasons.

Especially on this forum that normally has a good reputation for reasoned & intelligent debate

Do you have a link to an example?

What I find most depressing about this type of thread, is the fact that hardly anyone has actually bothered to take the time to try and work out exactly why some travelling people act the way they do. No thought or consideration for the oppression and intolerance many of these folk have suffered in Ireland (if it is indeed the Irish 'Tinkers' we're talking about), and the subsequent fear, xenophobia that they have endured for generations ever since. It's small wonder, therefore, that they can be very insular and mistrusting of others, and react in a hostile manner. It's defensive behaviour; they attempt to show how tough they are, so that they can dissuade others from attacking their communities. The attitudes shown here are perfect examples of the very xenophobia, mistrust and hatred that they regularly face, wherever they go.

These are displaced, disaffected people who have no sense of belonging. No-one wants them as neighbours, and very few people act in an open and welcoming manner toward them. No surprise that they show little respect for whatever place they are 'allowed' to stop at.

The 'problem' can only be solved if there is understanding and tolerance on all sides. Attitudes such as those displayed on here are damaging and simply exacerbate an already difficult situation.

Have a heart. They're Human Beings. If you'd been through what some of them have, then maybe you'd be less than 'perfect'...

Got a little gathering near me. Spotted a new (10 registration) Audi A4.

[i]No-one wants them as neighbours, and very few people act in an open and welcoming manner toward them. No surprise that they show little respect for whatever place they are 'allowed' to stop at.[/i]

Sorry, but it's the other way round. Nobody wants them because of the way they behave, not vice versa. There are plenty of groups of folk who could claim to be badly treated over the centuries, but still behave as valued members of the community, and are all the more welcome for it.

Sorry, but it's the other way round.

Not both ways round?

No, not in my experience at least. Where towns have tried to make them welcome by providing facilities, those facilities have almost always been trashed. I saw it happen where I grew up. I'm sure there are decent ones, but they do seem to be in the minority.

its not that they are pikeys, its the fact that the amount of shit they leave behind when they move on , the damage they cause getting into the places they ,for want of a better word squat, and all the other crap that goes with them , when they visit, if they obey the law like most good people, then there would be no problem , but they dont, its there own fault the get all the stick, fukem all.