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As has been pointed out, Cuban gave that advice but doesn't seem to have put a penny of his own money where his mouth is.
WSB is pretty interesting just as a community right now; there's obviously a lot of different user types with different goals, a lot of people who're genuinely happy to lose money on the game, others who absolutely reek of desperation even while going HOLD TEH LINE RETARDS over and over...
I reckon when the dust settles, for individuals it might well be about winning or losing money but the big story is still basically about causing absolute mayhem. I don;t think it's going to "win" in terms of smashing a hedge fund or making that market sufficiently unsafe that it reigns them in... But it obviously rattled the cage to a pretty massive extent. And it'll be really interesting to see the post analysis- how much the dubious blocks on retail trading contributed, and whether the information war stuff gets accepted as fact (especially "reddit buys silver") or whather it's accepted as market manipulation...
TL;DR- lots of people will want to declare a win or a loss but the truth is there's lots of different ways to win or lose.
The thing is the underlying conditions to force a decent short squeeze are still there - the issue is whether the small investors have the patience and nerve to hold on long enough to trigger it. Also how high that squeeze could force the price is a big unknown - I think $1000+/the moon is pretty unrealistic at this point (if HF have got out of half the shorts already and it maxed out at $480 presumably they can keep it to that or less going forward? although that does depend how much time they have to get out of any remaining shorts (that are under something like $50 anyway).
So in theory the small investors still have some control/power but the more of them that panic and sell the less control/power the remaining holders have - hence the repeated calls to hold. It doesn't necessarily mean those screaming to hold are risking losing their shirt it's just they don't want to let the HFs off the hook so easily.
Me personally, if I sell my remaining positions @ $93 I break even from the whole thing and even if it hits $0.01 I'm not losing more than I can afford. However I was hoping it would still be the rollercoaster that last Wednesday and Thursday were where you could make small profits through buying and selling during the multiple dips and bumps that were happening. However this week the stock has been much more stable (albeit on a general downward trend) so it's not worth the risk of playing the rollercoaster if you need to invest $1000 and if you get the timing right you still only profit $20 (even if that's in a short time period).
Mmm, today it's dipped to 85 and risen to 110, still lots of room to make quick gains (and losses!). I think really the problem and the opportunity is now that it's a chaotic illogical stock being acted on by lots of people who have no clue what they're doing, so there's definitely no rational floor or ceiling. Sort of like normal shorting etc or arguably just like the stock market in its entirety, except with added monkeys.
Suppose the irony here is that in messing with short traders, they've created huge opportunities for daytraders to make a quick buck.
Still holding here.
Even if it raises eyebrows with the sec and the US Treasury to highlight how dumb and downright nasty those in Hegde funds are.
I would love to see a forensic accountants dig into some of the big players..
Now imagine if RR for example, currently in the mire but a solid company and employer of huge numbers in the UK it's not impossible to envisage the hedge funds shorting it to death. The odds are slim they would but. there must be some cash strapped international companys in retail,Hospitality ECT who are surviving week by week.
If a company dies a natural death then fine but not from a thousand cuts of hedge fund shorts just pushing numbers on a spreadsheet.
Mmm, today it’s dipped to 85 and risen to 110, still lots of room to make quick gains (and losses!).
Yeah but it's much harder to get the timing right on a 25 point dip/bump than it is on a 100+ point dip/bumps we were seeing last week.
Sure but, point is you were talking about $20 on a $1000 investment- you didn't need to get the timing anything like perfect, to make a much bigger profit than that.
Eh, put it another way- of course the smaller changes have less opportunity but equally you're understating today's opportunities.
After the big crash on Thursday it fell to $126 then less than an hour later it was back up to $282. There just aren't the 100+% swings the last couple of days
That seems to me a bit like asking “is it still stealing if you tell the shop staff you’re stealing and walk out of the shop holding a TV in the air”.
Doesnt really compare. Whether something is manipulation seems to be very messy and where it cuts over into illegal isnt obvious.
From what I have read one of the main factors is honesty.
If I lie about either my holdings or the reasons why someone should invest then its manipulation.
However if I am giving clear and accurate reasons why then it probably isnt.
After all thats what stock market tipsters (and not just the criminal ones) or the professional analysts do every day.
There may be some cases and I assume some investigators are currently reading all the WSB history and so on trying to figure out if anyone did but whether or not it will turn out to be the case is unclear.
Wait, you think that the focus is on WSB for manipulation? I mean, yes some of what's happened on there will blur those lines but against that, it seems pretty plain that this all has its roots in naked shorts, and it seems fairly likely that there's also been a significant volume of counterfeit stock in play. We've seen orchestrated misinformation campaigns against the WSB action- "Reddit loses interest in GME, buys silver" wasn't just completely false, and an attempt to draw retail investors away from the anti-short action, but at the same time some funds were taking positions on silver in an attempt to profit from that misinformation.
So the focus with questions on manipulation and potential criminality is not on someone going APES TOGETHER STRONG on social media.
andrewh
Free MemberAfter the big crash on Thursday it fell to $126 then less than an hour later it was back up to $282. There just aren’t the 100+% swings the last couple of days
Yes, like i say I agree- but that's not what I was taking issue with, only that you were understating the swings/opportunities today.
Seems to be sitting around $100 today. I wonder if it's as simple as people saying, 'If it drops below $100 I'm going to jump in' and others saying, 'If it drops below $100 I'm getting out.'
$100 is a fairly obvious break point if you're dealing primarily with investors who are acting irrationally.
Some other nice psychology like 10% swings with lovely whole numbers, closing at exactly 90 too... like, I was hopelessly drawn to buy at 90, take profit at 100, not because there's anything logical about it but just because it's so tidy.
My brain is crusty and I can't find any info but I remember reading a study from the 70s about how buyer psychology changes noticably at certain sweet spots and one of them is when cash and percentages align in nice ratios- the author didn't make a conclusion as to causes but it always struck me that basically we feel more confident when the numbers look and feel nice in the head. And that was with experienced traders, albeit the markets were very different then- but if even a hardened stock market floor guy can be susceptible to shiny polished numbers then no doubt it could have more impact on confused scared know-nothings. "This number is scary but this number feels nice". Same as pricing stuff at £3.99, or odds disconnects in games of pure chance.
it seems pretty plain that this all has its roots in naked shorts,
It might seem plain but there isnt any supporting evidence for it
First of all a hedge fund would either have to be stupid enough to illegally sell shares or stupid enough to buy pretend shares. Its possible I guess but given there is a perfectly sensible and reasonable explanation it loses out.
What people seem to miss is its perfectly viable to short the same share twice.
The shorted share is sold on the open market and there is no flag on it saying "already shorted dont short again".
So the share can be shorted, brought and then lent out again.
We’ve seen orchestrated misinformation campaigns against the WSB action-
Granted this is interesting but to be expected. People have seen an obvious opportunity and jumped on it. Be curious to see how it plays out in future now the power of being able to trigger a flash mob for finance has become clear.
What people seem to miss is its perfectly viable to short the same share twice.
But in order to cover that short, the holders of the short have to buy the share back from the open market and give it to another party (that now owns the share). The short-holders no longer own the share and in order to cover their second short, another share must be bought again. NB the first sale has caused the share price to increase fractionally (an increase that's multiplied each time a share is bought to cover a short).
So yes it's perfectly possible for the same share to be shorted twice, but all that means is that it's doubly expensive when the time comes to cover.
What people are skeptical of is the reports that the shorts have closed out their positions when there don't appear to be enough shares in the market for that to happen. Some people have done calculations that appear to suggest that there are more shares around than should exist in the GME float. This is a different phenomenon.
So yes it’s perfectly possible for the same share to be shorted twice, but all that means is that it’s doubly expensive when the time comes to cover.
That is assuming the price is not impacted by anything else. It also assumes that the shorts are due at the same time and no further shorting occurs. You would need a lot of guts to try it but shorting at the height of the bubble with a decent length on the contract is liable to be highly profitable.
So whilst there is lots of talk about conspiracy and dirty dealings I have severe doubts. Given profits available when doing something ethically dubious but still legal why bother with the illegal stuff?
More profit?
Steve thinks fraud is worth it. And tbf it is for him he is apparently only worth 7bilon
Cohen's firm -- then known as SAC Capital Advisors -- agreed in November 2013 to plead guilty to securities and wire fraud, pay $1.8 billion in fines and forfeitures, and stop managing money for outside investors.
According to Bloomberg News reporting in April 2018, Cohen pulled out close to $3 billion from Point72 Asset Management for taxes. He raised about $10 billion in the three years after re-opening to outside clients in 2018 following a Securities and Exchange Commission ban. *
dissonance
Full MemberIt might seem plain but there isnt any supporting evidence for it
The level of fail-to-delivers certainly seems to support it, and that's a pretty well accepted indicator for naked shorting (which I'm sure you agree, despite being illegal, still happens). It's mathematically possible that it could all be accounted for by innocent double-lending which is one of the reasons people can still do it with relative impunity, but that does not seem the most obvious explanation when at the same time you had a short going wrong, massive incentive to look for solutions... and as far as I can see no other explanation for the trends?
dissonance
Full MemberSo whilst there is lots of talk about conspiracy and dirty dealings I have severe doubts. Given profits available when doing something ethically dubious but still legal why bother with the illegal stuff?
I would think that's obvious tbf. When they started the short, it was all business as usual. But the action you take when the wheels come off may be very different from anything you planned to do. I mean, equally they clearly didn't plan to be having to take money from Citadel etc.
And why do a naked short in the first place? Because it's hard to prove, and the regulator is pretty toothless/unconcerned, and even if you forget it's illegal and get caught like Morgan Stanley you get a trivial slap on the wrists fine that is far less than the potential profits.
Friday (when his portfolio was at ~$53M) he cashed out around $9M of the options IIRC.
Fair play to him for only realising 9m, but I would've chucked the whole lot and bollocks to WSB philosophy. Could do a far greater amount of good with that cash than will ever be realised by the reddit forumites will ever achieve.
So whilst there is lots of talk about conspiracy and dirty dealings I have severe doubts. Given profits available when doing something ethically dubious but still legal why bother with the illegal stuff?
From what I understand from this scenario, the punishment from being caught will likely be less than the losses some hedge funds stand to incur.
Just heard from my sister-in-law again. Turns out my nephew didn't hold and got out when his gains hit a million. Thank god for that, I was getting a bit worried he was one of the hold forever types on WSB.
Good lad !!
Once in a lifetime opportunity well taken, don't let him think he'll beat the market/world ever again like that. So....
Porsche, just do it
A load into a pension (subject to upper limits) and never have to worry about that ever again.
3 bedder
Job done
(tax bill is going to smart though)
Fair play to him for only realising 9m, but I would’ve chucked the whole lot and bollocks to WSB philosophy. Could do a far greater amount of good with that cash than will ever be realised by the reddit forumites will ever achieve.
Yeah, I don't think I'd have held @$53M although I think he's continuing because he believes it'll go up again. He's already 'won' and made more money than most of us dream of, so why not try for the moonshot? I actually went back and looked at some of his YouTube videos (u/RoaringKitty) and he seems like a big brain kind of guy who's out to make money, not some Robin Hood wealth redistribution evangelical.
tax bill is going to smart though
I don't know for a fact but he may well have been trading within an ISA 🙂
Once in a lifetime opportunity well taken, don’t let him think he’ll beat the market/world ever again like that
Very true. I'm hoping he's not one of the types who think they have some god-given talent rather than just blind luck. He's very sensible in all other respects though so doubt he'll do anythng stupid.
tumbling now!!
Any bets on the new bottom? So tempted to buy more at $70ish and hope they bounce back 20-30 points by the end of the day - not going to risk it though I don't think...
Love the way you think a "point" is actually a "big figure"
Be careful catching a falling knife
New bottom = whatever they were trading at before they lost touch with reality, back when you'd never heard of them.
Love the way you think a “point” is actually a “big figure”
Love the way you assume to know what I'm thinking!?
So did you sellout at your break even price of $93 Fuzzy or are you sitting on a loss now?
Sitting on a loss now - most I can lose (if they hit $0) is $310, if I cashed out right now @ $63 I'd end up down $90 overall.
I can't see it recovering significantly any time soon though so have a SL @ $50 on half of it and going to ride the rest down to the bottom and will hold to see what the market decides is the real value in a month or two! But yeah def not going to put an other $1000 back in hoping for a boost in the next day or two
the rocketship might be grounded but there's still drama on the reddit thread! Talk of long-gone mods who still hold top privileges coming back to capitalise on press interest, Netflix movie etc!
Now trading at $59.50, down 35.5% on the day so far; appears that the correction is well underway.
dfv might be in the shit, I figured something was occurring after he said he was going to stop the YOLO updates, he's been posting for ages about it though with little following,
the $BLIAC thread was interesting though, went up 39% by EOD
They're up 50% so far today, not sure I understand why - there's a lot of volume being traded. Might just be an early blip before another dip, I'm too chicken to risk it :p
Robinhood removed limits
It’s bonkers!
I wasted some more time in the Reddit forums to get to the heart of the madness. My god... 🤯
not sure I understand why
Dead Cat Bounce
I wasted some more time in the Reddit forums to get to the heart of the madness. My god… 🤯
💎💎💎💎💎💎🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀
It's done. The Hegde funds will keep playing pass the parcel and the one who holds the unlucky bag will go bankrupt/get fined and be back trading in 3 years.
I'm taking mine to the grave.
And to the young lad who made a million kudos Billy big balls
So - how did anyone who had a flutter do? Gamestop's share price seems to have been pretty steady at $50USD ish now for a week or so.
Incidentally (and mods, please delete if this isn't kosher), I was looking for an alternative to Robinhood after their fiasco, and there's a similar commission free share dealing app - Freetrade - that is currently offering a free share if you sign up [url= https://freetrade.app.link/6mm8of9HTdb?_p=c31129c39f047af8e4038cfdef ]via a referral link[/url]. I did it last week and got a share in this [url= https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/i/ishares-ii-plc-usd-tips-etf-gbp-hdg-dist ]random bonds ETF[/url] that is currently worth £5.40 😀 .
Still waiting for etoro to get round to approving my account! "Please allow 3 working days". I made a bit of a terrible error and set up the practice account and entered every trade I would have done had the account been live, and well, same day trades on gamestop would have gone pretty well but palantir at 26 is haunting me a bit. Ah well. Just need to make sure that doesn't turn into a greater FOMO once I finally get it going.
I'm about $200 down currently on GME but with 2 shares left, as you say it's been pretty stable around $50 recently. I have a sell order at $100 on them but it's more likely they'll hit $1 I think :p
Still waiting for Freetrade to verify my account 😟
Lack of communication from them doesn’t fill me with confidence
Still waiting for Freetrade to verify my account 😟
Lack of communication from them doesn’t fill me with confidence
Weird, was v. quick here... (although luddite that I am I don't like the lack of desktop access, app only!).
Seems that the Gamestop and other Reddit based actions filled the coffers of Hedge Funds as they cashed out knowing the inflated prices were daft. Quite a few funds delivered record profits at the expense of retail investors...
Retail investors who dealt a black eye to hedge funds betting against the price of stocks including GameStop last month also delivered years’ worth of gains in a matter of days to a handful of other fund managers.
https://www.ft.com/content/a883ad92-2fd8-454b-bc56-78b64ed20545
Hopefully they will turn their attention to some of my dead shares so I can offload them at an absurd price. Not going to happen to any UK based companies though ☹️
behind a paywall, whats the gist?
I'm guessing those who already had shares cashed out when the value rocketed, and probably a fair few who shorted them when the value was at $3-400
whats the gist?
Quite a few funds held shares which Reddit pumped. When they went to astronomic prices they were more than happy to sell them to Reddit users at 10x market rate. The funds exited making 10x more than they ever expected and the Reddit users bought $1 stock for $14 from a hedge fund as a way of hurting hedge funds. Quite funny really!
I bought (and promptly sold) 1 share, and my profit paid for the lion’s share of a Lego Landrover Defender for Jr! 😝
I bought £300 worth, nearly doubled my money and sold. Then bought more for the expected squeeze, which I should have just avoided. So I'm about evens as it stands.
Ever so slightly "sub-even"...
I love this - how does one buy shares in gamestop? what's the simple method if you just want to chuck a hundred quid in, to avoid comission etc.? I've never bought shares before.
what’s the simple method if you just want to chuck a hundred quid in, to avoid comission etc
If you don't already have an ISA then set up a Stocks and Shares ISA with someone like Hargreaves Lansdown. Then you can buy shares in most companies around the world and pay no CGT if you make money on them.
Fees are steep compared to other sites at £11.99 a trade, so doesn't really make sense to use for day trading unless you are playing with big numbers.
I love this – how does one buy shares in gamestop? what’s the simple method if you just want to chuck a hundred quid in, to avoid comission etc.? I’ve never bought shares before.
You can do just that on Freetrade. I didn’t have any trouble at all with account verification (almost instant).
Here’s my Freetrade link if the above one has already been used.
https://magic.freetrade.io/join/tom/0159bdee
I’ve only lost money so far though so I’m not sure I would recommend signing up!
Edit: Actually Freetrade charges a £10 monthly account fee for various benefits including being able to buy some US stocks so I think you need to cough up that to buy GME.
Revolut do 3 free trades a month so if you just want to have a punt then you may as well try that.
Was just reading that Michael Burry (played by Christian Bale in The Big Short) had 3000000 GameStop shares, bought last year when they were cheap. That would've been worth over half a billion dollars at the peak. He sold the lot in December before all the fun and games
Argo blockchain has brought me 100%+ profit in a few weeks. I missed the GameStop boat.
I love this – how does one buy shares in gamestop? what’s the simple method if you just want to chuck a hundred quid in, to avoid comission etc.? I’ve never bought shares before.
I went with eToro, sign-up only took a few minutes. Then just deposited funds via debit card and started trading - it's commission free for normal trades. There was a fee to withdraw funds (I think $30), not sure it that's a flat fee or depends on the amount being withdrawn.
I love this – how does one buy shares in gamestop? what’s the simple method if you just want to chuck a hundred quid in, to avoid comission etc.? I’ve never bought shares before.
I use the Trading212 ISA account which was easy to set up and its zero commission.
Not sure if this is allowed but if you create an account using this link we both get a free share worth up to £100:
www.trading212.com/invite/FzBDIB9t.
It's covered by FCA etc and I'm up 13% overall since I started last year, which is a mix of long term investments and a few trades which I class as cheeky bets. Better than 0.00001% in my bank account!
some of the snippets from the congressional hearing are great 😂
whole 5 hours here, DFV from 40:40, **** knows how he kept a straight face when he saw "I am not a cat"
So – how did anyone who had a flutter do? Gamestop’s share price seems to have been pretty steady at $50USD ish now for a week or so.
bought 12 @ $98.54
bought 2 @ $71.26
sold 4 @ $269.265
sold 10 @ $285.005
got burnt on AMC, Nokia, $AEZS
did alright with SNDL, was £3k up in afterhours/premarket, but it opened just up on the close price on the but then blew it all on SCKT & CLPS, learnt a lesson
made the last couple of weeks go quicker, but its too stressful when its volatile 😂
I joined Freetrade about 2 weeks ago [like a retarded ape]. I spent £250 on a mixture of AMZN, NOK, AMC [stonks] - lost about £50 over a week, the loss being entirely on £100 of AMC shares [bag holder]. Then I moved the lot to ODX and lost another £50 initially but it's gone back to near the value I bought it. Overall, I'm £55 down on a £250 investment in the space of about 2 weeks. I had to pay a £10 monthly fee to buy ODX but all the other trades were free. I shall probably cancel the subscription and hold [diamond hands] ODX for a while as I feel there's a reasonable chance they shall improve if not this financial year then the next [to the moon].
missed the boat with GameStop but I did set up an account with HL (decided not to bother with any of the free services as they sounded quite stressful e.g. crashing due to demand when you're trying to sell!!) so I'd be ready for the next YOLO bet 🤣 Did a bit of prowling round Reddit looking for tips, found MXC so stuck a couple of hundred in last week... wish I'd done more as it's just shot up yesterday 👍 Quite good fun this (when it's going your way 😂) I see you can invest in Bitcoin on HL now (via a fund) so might give that a go if/when it next crashes!
PLTR looking cheap by recent standards.
Instead of looking on WSB you could always see what stonks Queen Cathy is holding..
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-5-holdings-catherine-woods-171728157.html
Another good FT article explaining the WSB 'assault' on silver...
Ross Norman, a veteran precious metals trader, estimated that the retail traders collectively lost around $250m in the silver price pullback.
“It's been the delusional leading the gullible,” he said. “They've been led on by a false premise, a story that doesn't hold water — it's a children's crusade. And they're enriching the guys they're posting against.”
https://www.ft.com/content/37f26cdf-38e8-4d8c-b493-1a6f1ad0ef16
dfv increased his position by an additional 50,000 shares 🙃
I see you can invest in Bitcoin on HL now (via a fund) so might give that a go if/when it next crashes!
I don't think this is true. I do *have* money in BTC and ETH trackers on HL, but I believe they're closed to further trading. OK to HODL and sell but further buying has been banned by FCA. Unless things have changed...
Don't know about HL specifically but you can't have crypto in a new ISA
wtf just happened 😂
$54 to $91 peak in the last hour, going to go ballistic in after hours?
$107
SQUEEEEEEEEEZE
$122
wsb down
dfv increased his position by an additional 50,000 shares 🙃
should have followed 😂
$133 😂
BUY THE OPENING DIP
$144
$155 😂
$166