Our car has been cutting out recently so I’m looking into replacing it. Leading the charge at the moment is the Kia Niro PHEV, we’d be leasing it rather than purchasing.
We’ve got 2 small kids and will be doing around 8k miles per year, the vast majority will be under 30 miles trips mostly consisting of:
Probably 1x 40 mile round trip to the office per week (maybe 2),
Running kids around, errands etc,
Two to three 400 mile trips to Northumberland.
Whilst the 30 mile electric range wouldn’t get cover the office round trip it could conceivably cut the cost of that in half Fuel wise compared to our 32mpg avg X1.
I’d be interested to know usage patterns for electric only range and total avg mpg.
Rough calculations suggest the X1 costs around £1400 per year in diesel, vs £600 for the Niro at 70mpg which is quite tempting.
Oh and before anyone suggests the pure EV version, I’d love it but the wife is having none of it as it would mean we couldn’t do the drive to Northumberland in one go - we typically do it at night so the kids sleep through. My argument of we could probably hire a car for those trips And still come out ahead with the potential savings in fuel did not hold muster.
Don’t get a PHEV unless you have to. They seem to be a marketing spin being more hybrid+ than electric-
You’re overpaying for the complication of a petrol engine and the non-range of the electric part.
seems an electric isn’t going to be a family choice so I shan’t warble on about charging fitting into toilet and tea breaks on long journeys.
Despite the efficiency of electrics (~5p per mile if I have to charge at home I think) I don’t think fuel savings are a real selling point. Just a nice extra.
Go full EV the kids can still sleep while the car is stopped.
For charging costs this is a good tool.
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/home-charging-calculator/
We had a Golf GTE for a couple of years. For all the short hop, running the kids about, kind of stuff it’s great. A mate had the same and a similar commute and found it a bit jarring and frustrating to be running the engine for some of it. Still decent fuel saving over a regular car though.
While the Golf worked pretty well as a short-range electric car until the battery runs out, the Kias (and I’m pretty sure the Niro included) are really compromised. On the Kias, press the throttle too hard and the petrol engine fires up to help, and if you want heat then it has to come from that petrol engine too. Whereas the Golf has about 100hp of electric motor, the Niro is much weedier and you have to nurse it along to stop the petrol engine firing up. The difference with a pure EV (we have an eGolf now) is huge, lots more poke and less weight too.
General to all PHEVs - if you want to run mostly on electric then they need plugging in a lot. It was pretty much a daily thing to get it charging overnight else we’d spend some of the next day using petrol. There’s less space inside as the electric stuff has to go in along with the engine, petrol tank, etc.
I’d really urge you (and your wife) to try the PHEV and eNiro back to back. Yes, that 400 mile trip will need a brief charging stop. But you have a car that is massively better performing (200hp and loads of torque), more pleasant to drive, will only need plugging in every couple of weeks, has more boot space, will save you loads in fuel and tax, and won’t depreciate as hard. I’d get the eNiro any day.
One of my best friends has one and from what I can tell, he's absolutely loved it to the point where he's considering the EV version next. Don't think he's had any major problems with it - seem to remember something about it not charging but Kia fixed it quickly. To be fair, the time I've spent in it I've been massively impressed with everything about it. Build quality etc seems to be on a par with any German stuff I've ever had to the point where I'd definitely consider one if I was in the market.
Go full EV the kids can still sleep while the car is stopped.
Unfortunately they tend to wake up as soon as the car stops. We (me) do the drive in one go, without stopping ~80% of the time, sometimes I'm too tired to do the last bit over Hartside Pass.
Her words were I'm not interested in a full EV,try as I might I think that ship has sailed.
It took a while to convince her that Kia's were an option because someone told her their friend had a Kia that broke down 3 times whilst the kids were in the car. Queue me showing Kia's were generally much more reliable than BMW (6th Vs 21st in which cars manufacturers rating) and the a Soul with the Hybrid drivetrain was the number one reliable car overall last year.
I generally don't mind babying the throttle to keep it in EV mode. If the AC requires the engine to kick in this may be a non starter unless the heated seats are powerful enough to compensate. Particularly in winter.
We have a garage and driveway so plugging in to charge at home won't be a problem.
This is complicated by the fact that our local Kia dealer is only offering 10 minute test drives with 1 person due to cv-19. Gonna be difficult to get a solid read on everything in 10 minutes.
Worth trying Kia direct, and the business / company car route - you’re thinking of one as a company car, most brands are happy to do extended test drives.
I don’t mean to be down on PHEVs, they’re a good solution for many but I found the compromises too great and the BEV version much better. That difference is huge IMO with the Niro.
EVs aren’t about cost savings or because I’m particularly green-minded. They just drive better.
I’ve lovved my GTE it’s what has convinced me to go full EV works well on long journeys returning about 70mpg.
How old are the kids? How long will you keep the car for?
PHEVs work best when you occasionally need to do long trips and perhaps you have one car.
I'm tempted to replace our full EV and second regular car with just one PHEV next time.
80% of journeys on leccy and the occasional big one on juice.
Like the look of the Kuga PHEV.
Worth trying Kia direct, and the business / company car route – you’re thinking of one as a company car, most brands are happy to do extended test drives.
That's not a bad idea, thanks.
How old are the kids? How long will you keep the car for?
Nearly 2 and 4 for the kids. Probably looking at a 3 year lease, hoping that by the time the lease is up there will be more 300-400m capable EV's for a not ridiculous price.
PHEVs work best when you occasionally need to do long trips and perhaps you have one car.
I’m tempted to replace our full EV and second regular car with just one PHEV next time.
80% of journeys on leccy and the occasional big one on juice.
Like the look of the Kuga PHEV.
This is my thinking exactly. We're a single car house and likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future.
I did look at the Kuga but ruled it out as to get the spec I wanted (include heated seats etc) it was getting close to £40k and Model 3 territory for leasing costs. That's partly the appeal of the Niro, on the 3 trim level it includes (almost) everything we'd need.
Nearly 2 and 4 for the kids. Probably looking at a 3 year lease, hoping that by the time the lease is up there will be more 300-400m capable EV’s for a not ridiculous price.
The only thing I'll add is that how they behave at 2 and 4 is not how they'll behave at 4 and 6. Mine are 6 and 9, and far less likely to sleep through a night drive than they were at your kids' age. I'd get an electric car and a pair of DVD players...
Sounds like the Niro PHEV is ideal. My mate uses it to commute probably sub-30 miles a day and does it all on electric I think. Just plugs it in when he gets home but we do the South West which is a 6/7 hour drive each summer and does that without having to wait ages for charging. as I said, I've been properly impressed with what I've seen of them.
Oh and before anyone suggests the pure EV version, I’d love it but the wife is having none of it as it would mean we couldn’t do the drive to Northumberland in one go – we typically do it at night so the kids sleep through.
and
I generally don’t mind babying the throttle to keep it in EV mode. If the AC requires the engine to kick in this may be a non starter unless the heated seats are powerful enough to compensate. Particularly in winter.
New wife and a nice coat?
Think a lot of these PHEVs are slower charging. That is a bit annoying.
They are but the battery is also tiny so they don’t take long.
I’ve had a Niro PHEV since the start of the July. I needed to get a car quick and was having problems with car hunting during COVID so managed to get one on a short 19 month lease. I have a 13 mile journey to work, I don’t charge it at work and I can make the return journey on electric only and have a few miles spare. (Usually indicate around 34 miles electric range on full charge). Since I’m using it to trial PHEV/EV cars I haven’t had a home charger unit put in so just charge it with the 240v normal plug in charger. The display usually states it’ll take about 4 hours to get back to full charge on this but I haven’t timed it, I just plug it when I get back from work and it’s charged again by the time I’ve had a nights sleep. I considered a full EV but like you was concerned about the occasional longer journeys not wanting to have to charge en route. I also like the fact that with my set up having a longer charge time the engine is there for use if I had to use the car in a emergency. I haven’t really had it long enough to see the increase in my electricity bill but will monitor the change. I have used air conditioning in full electric mode without the engine starting and have even accidentally turned the heated seats on and I don’t think the engine was running when that happened. I agree that if you’re heavy on the accelerator the engine will start and at times it’ll start for no apparent reason eg I reverse off my drive downhill and it’ll sometimes start then when with full charge even though I’m not really touching the accelerator. This doesn’t bother me too much because even once the engines started you can see on one of the displays that you’re still using electric only when driving. I also think it’s probably not a bad thing for the engine as potentially I could have driven for months in between long journeys using electric only. I don’t know if this is some sort of protective measure for the engine and the vehicle manual is about an inch thick so I doubt I’ll get through it in the time I’ve got the car. The dual carriageway part of my journey to work is subject to a 50mph roadworks limit and this will be in place for the entire time I have the car but this has actually worked out well for economy/electric range. I’ll admit that my driving is more looking at economy than ‘making progress’ but I’ve no problems driving it in all electric once you’re used to the accelerator. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
You just need to be dedicated to driving it on the battery as much as possible. I know a few people with PHEVs who after the initial excitement just don't bother charging it anymore which defeats the object of the exercise IMO. So I guess you need to set up a home charger that puts as few barriers up and makes it easy for you to just plug in every night ie a commando socket or a home charger. Also go on an EV specific tariff (Octopus Go) where you only pay 5ppkwh to charge at home rather than 14ppkwh, it should focus your enthusiasm to keep it running on electric.
EVs ... just drive better
definitely this.
if you got a Tesla the kids could wake up to Netflix on the dashboard?
You just need to be dedicated to driving it on the battery as much as possible. I know a few people with PHEVs who after the initial excitement just don’t bother charging it anymore which defeats the object of the exercise IMO
and this. PHEVs seem to have the inconvenience of both petrol and BEV. With none of the BEV advantages. Wasn’t it the case that when there were lower BIK costs and the like for PHEVs that fleet managers brought them in. But few bothered to plug their PHEV in.
prettygreenparrot
PHEVs seem to have the inconvenience of both petrol and BEV. With none of the BEV advantages. Wasn’t it the case that when there were lower BIK costs and the like for PHEVs that fleet managers brought them in. But few bothered to plug their PHEV in.
Depends how long your commute is I think. If you can do the round trip within the battery range then you're picking up a lot of the BEV benefits, but still keeping the range/quick refuel options available from the ICE.