but they are the ones that seem to generate a revenue just by using the forum (through ad revenue)
I wonder how much browsing a non-P would need to do in order to generate the equivalent of a P's £1.49 a month? Do they get any revenue for ad views or only on click through? Must be tiny fractions of a penny.
(oh and P's may generate ad revenue as usually they at least one set of ad's before they get a chance to log in... every time 😉 )
>Pfft. In my day we’d knock out a forum in a tea break.
You could start a sub Reddit in half a tea break!
I am letting my subscription lapse this May
I dont spend any time reading the mag anymore and I wont be bothering paying for P or haunting this place much longer
Just need to find another place to waste a bit time in that has a slightly better user experience
Are the people who are paying for a ‘P’ not customers?
Sure. But that's not who we're talking about. If you're not a subscriber and use ad-blocking software then you're not a customer.
For a few folk it's akin to me shoplifting a cake from ASDA, then going to customer services to complain that the icing was off, then acting all surprised and offended when the staff get a bit snippy because I was going to actually buy a cake tomorrow but now I'm not.
and P’s may generate ad revenue as usually they at least one set of ad’s before they get a chance to log in… every time
There are no adverts on the login page.
If you bookmark http://singletrackworld.com/wp-login.php?redirect_to=forum/forum/ it'll take you to the forum if you're logged in and the login page if you aren't.
For a few folk it’s akin to me shoplifting a cake from ASDA, then going to customer services to complain that the icing was off, then acting all surprised and offended when the staff get a bit snippy because I was going to actually buy a cake tomorrow but now I’m not.
Nice analogy....except that, as the content providers of the forum, we're the ones that provided the ingredients, baked the cakes and voluntarily stocked the shelves.
In this analogy STW are providing the shelves in exchange for manning the tills and collecting the cash.
Currently, the aisles are blocked, some shelves are missing and some are broken.
Tills are still working though.
And someone has pinched a [s]cake.[/s] loaf 🤔
Qu'ils mangent de la brioche...
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Cougar
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Are the people who are paying for a ‘P’ not customers?Sure. But that’s not who we’re talking about. If you’re not a subscriber and use ad-blocking software then you’re not a customer.
For a few folk it’s akin to me shoplifting a cake from ASDA, then going to customer services to complain that the icing was off, then acting all surprised and offended when the staff get a bit snippy because I was going to actually buy a cake tomorrow but now I’m not.
I'm a paying customer. I'm not shoplifting. Please don't try to conflate unhappy customers with shoplifters.
Thanks.
or....going into ASDA to choose a cake, and being abused by sarcastic, condescending staff who think they know everything, because you haven't actually bought anything yet?
These staff don't actually get paid or anything, they just feel that doing the bosses dirty work gives them a position of power in the community, because there certainly isn't another logical/believable reason for it!
🙂
Still not a cake buyer.
Mange tout Captain, mange tout.
If you’re not a subscriber and use ad-blocking software then you’re not a customer.
Right, lets clear this up once and for all.
1) I used to subscribe to the mag. When I didn't I bought it frequently enough that I might as well have done.
2) I began using the aforementioned plug-in to see if it was the ads slowing down my computer at home. I think you know the answer to that one...
3) When issues of inappropriate popups first occurred, funnily enough the aforementioned plug-in got enabled quicksmart at work also.
4) At some point between 2 & 3, Mark decided to wade in with both feet, and treated me in a manner which would make most people think twice about handing over their hard-earned to them. You and Drac are equally happy to have a sly dig here and there too.
So there you have it. I definitely was a customer as a subscriber and buyer of the mag. If the website didn't have so many issues with intrusive, inappropriate or resource hungry ads i'd still happily view them and click through if they were selling anything I wanted (e.g. CRC). If Mark hadn't been an arse about it I'd have had an overseas subscription years ago.
BTW If anyone is actually going to go and get some cake I'll have a slice of Victoria Sponge.
Not paying for it though
Not paying for it though
You don't need to pay for the cake. The cake's free.
You just have to look at all the adverts or buy special STW sunglasses available at the till.
Wearing your own sunglasses or, god forbid, shutting your eyes is considered a bit naughty.
I always thought the cake was a lie?
(Haven't a clue how to insert a GIF these days so here's a link instead.)
So, if the cake is free, but walking into ADSA to buy the cake makes ASDA money, do I get to complain if they use raspberry rather than strawberry jam, and the guy behind the fish counter is an asshat?
Or do I need to start shopping at Tesco?
You can't buy anything from STW at the minute - the shop is borked too! 🙂
Zokes - I am the same as you pretty much
I did try and become a P last year but unless I did a direct debit they weren’t interested, didn’t seem bothered about taking my money and I’m glad that effort didn’t succeed now
On my work PC’s the ads don’t show - they do on other sites but our work setup just hates STW.
I’m not at all surprised the upgrade has been a nightmare, this site has been an old relic for years and when they employed people recently they were offering a pittance.
Don’t even think the powers that be care about the user experience, they certainly don’t care about any sort of customer service. If something big isn’t done very soon it’ll get worse and worse until people move elsewhere. Then one day there will be a post explaining that the forum or whole site is shutting down, blaming everyone but themselves.
[awaits banhammer]
You’re not supposed to have the shades Jamie.
In 6 months time will this place be like Bikemagic?
I am sure they do care and are very unhappy about the situation as this forum provides a lot of revenue. Equally the window to get it sorted is not infinite and its much harder to gain a good reputation than lose it.
To me this place is more like a symbiosis like lichen. STW is the fungi providing the structure and shelter, We are the algae providing the food. Neither will be as successful without the other.
/Waits for the mushroom reference.
TBH i think its all getting a bit much.
yes its not working.
yes its not the end of the world.
yes the communication is very poor.
I hope its getting fixed?
I hope its not done irreparable damage?
It is getting fixed but there are other issues they are dealing with too not just for the format of the forum.
Cougar, your link to the log in page is great at the beginning of a session.
Unfortunately though I get logged out mid session, sometimes halfway through writing a post. The first I know about it is when the page loads very very slowly and it's all ads. Then it's go and put the kettle on until the log on button loads.
Apart from you and Drac, no one from STW has even acknowledged the issue, let alone fixed it.
Is that sill happening borielbrus?
There was a post a while ago (talking maybe six months) from Cougar/Drac/the powers that be that the forum session ID which is basically what keeps you logged in has a maximum life of two weeks. I get logged out at about that frequency.
Remember the session ID is specific to each computer/browser so if you log in at work then that's a different session ID to logging in on your phone/tablet or home computer. So you might be getting logged out multiple times but only once per device per fortnight.
I would be interested to know how the malware and porn redirects fit into the ASDA cake analogy. I suppose you could think of it like having two ranges of cakes, a Premier range and a Value range. The Value range is like the Premier range, but made in a dirty factory without the basic hygiene controls. Every so often you find that your Value cake contained the remains of a dead mouse and you've just taken a bite of something which may put you in hospital.
As for the distinction between Premier and non-Premier users, both generate content which is what attracts other users and is the lifeblood of the forum. It's only my own vague impression, but it seems to me that the most interesting, humorous and/or engaging posts are on balance more likely to come from non-Premier users (maybe that's just my own bias, and I certainly don't include myself in that group, but if someone is paying for the privilege of being a Premier member, maybe that affects their perception of their own posts and of their value and how they post).
Incidentally, I've seen it said often that STW threads frequently appear quite highly on Google search results (and for a very diverse range of subjects). I presume therefore that some significant ad revenue is generated by visits from non-forum members as a result of those high search result rankings. A few days ago I tried to use Google (i.e. site:singletrackworld.com + search terms) to find an old thread, but without success, even though I am able to find the thread by trawling through my own posts on STW and then using the # link to get to the thread . I suspect that the update of the forum has resulted in some (many? most?) threads no longer being picked up in Google searches. If so that might have significant implications for ad revenue.
I suppose you could think of it like having two ranges of cakes, a Premier range and a Value range
There's a third type of cake.
The Fun Sponge 😉
oh well played sir.
FWIW I had to log in AGAIN to post that.
It is getting fixed but there are other issues they are dealing with too not just for the format of the forum
It's good of you to provide that update, but it shouldn't have to come from you in the first place, and I don't see why it has to be so cryptic.
I really fancy some squirty cream. It was the pancake thread that got me thinking about it, but this cake thing is only making it worse.
Yes, my laptop has stayed logged in for ages - well over a month I think. Phone and tablet is random, sometimes several times a day, sometimes not for several days. Certainly not a regular once a fortnight thing.
Have just renewed my P. I have faith (optimism) that this place will continue to thrive. Also the alternative is FaceAche, and that place is a LOT more sinister and corporate, not to mention shit, and I don’t want to go back to it...
It's like going to the supermarket, choosing a nice looking cake, going to the checkout, paying for it, and then going home. Then, when you're sitting down with your friends, half-way through eating your cake, the supermarket management burst in, and stick their fingers into the cake and wipe it on your walls, and then accuse you of being ungrateful.
Since the prickly subject of the "logging out" issue has reared up again (I promise that this will be the last time I say anything on the subject) .. I have been logged in now on an Aus Surfing Website forum for well over a year and never ever been logged out....(as an example, I visit it daily as I do here)
Honestly, and that's my t'ing with STW..
It's claimed that a "routine" not controlled by STW logs you out every couple of weeks on what ever device you are on.. and I simply don't believe that excuse. STW must control the issue but we've been told on multiple occasions that it's simply not their fault or in their control.. and I simply don't believe em'. It don't a'ppen anywhere else...
But, I mentioned on a number of occasions now, that I simply resign myself to the fact that we get booted out of here so when the user logs back in again it's logged as a "new user"/"impression"/"visit" etc.. and the stats go up.. Which is pretty galling TBH.
'but it seems to me that the most interesting, humorous and/or engaging posts are on balance more likely to come from non-Premier users (maybe that’s just my own bias, and I certainly don’t include myself in that group, but if someone is paying for the privilege of being a Premier member, maybe that affects their perception of their own posts and of their value and how they post).'
Just to say that I have a 'P', but being a premier member is nothing to do with the perception of the importance of the nonsense I post on here. Or anything to do with the forum at all. It's simply because I subscribe to the magazine. No other reason. I have to say I completely ignore if others are premier members or not.
I've never noticed anyone else read anything into it? It might be just you. 🙂
I'm a bit critical of ST at times but I have to say I'm not really feeling the hate for the forum at the moment.
I like the better way (for me anyway) that the forum works on an iPad Mini. It took me a few goes to get used to posting images and video but overall although my forum useage has dropped somewhat the only downside I'm really seeing is less content on here.
And it is the content on the forum I come here for, hence my keeping my digital sub. I'm issues will be resolved as Mark needs the income to keep the staff paid and to fund his e-bike habit.
@bikebouy If you are on Chrome then you can see when the session that keeps you logged in will end. Click on the three dots in a column at the right hand end of the toolbar, select "Settings". At the bottom of the tab that appears click on "Show Advanced Settings". The first section is entitled "Privacy" and under that are two buttons, click on the left hand one - "Content Settings", in the dialog box that appears, click "All cookies and site data". There's a search box in the top right of this dialog box, type "singletrackworld" (without the quotes) into that and you should get one hit.
Click on it and it will expand showing all the cookies that STW store in your browser. At least one of these will have "logged" or "sec" in its name. Click on one of these and you'll be shown when you'll be logged out. In my case on this computer I have these values:
Created: Friday, 2 February 2018 at 08:46:38
Expires: Friday, 16 February 2018 at 20:46:38
So I'll need to sign in again sometime Friday night. I've also got Firefox running on this computer and the expiry date for the equivalent session cookie is:
Tue 27 Feb 2018 02:08:17 GMT
I'll have a different expiry time on my machine at home.
Edited to get rid of the forum adding rogue HTML tags.
It’s claimed that a “routine” not controlled by STW logs you out every couple of weeks on what ever device you are on.
By whom? No-one's ever claimed that ever. The session cookie lasts for a fortnight, or at least it did on the previous software. What was "out of their control" was those who claimed to be logged out multiple times a day, STW were unable to replicate the issue.
We did eventually track down a glitch in the way cookies were being written (ironically in the login page I linked to earlier), though I suppose that's academic now. I must test the new version at some point.
when the user logs back in again it’s logged as a “new user”/”impression”/”visit” etc.. and the stats go up.. Which is pretty galling TBH.
I've no idea whether that's the case or not, so I'm absolutely certain that you don't. It sounds an utterly ludicrous notion to me though and I'd be highly surprised if that's the case.
I'm not a Wordpress expert but a quick bit of searching gives this nugget:
The default WordPress behavior for logging a user out is to make a login session cookie that expires in 48 hours or when the browser is closed. If the “Remember Me” box is checked, WordPress will give you 14 days before forcing you to authenticate again.
Now there are plugins that let WP admins extend this but it would seem that they haven't been installed.
Hmmm, I certainly have to log in more frequently than I used to.
Not bothered as I only use the forum from the safety of my double bagged laptop which I guess is quicker and easier to re-log in on than a smartphone or tablet.
The default WordPress behavior for logging a user out is to make a login session cookie that expires in 48 hours or when the browser is closed. If the “Remember Me” box is checked, WordPress will give you 14 days before forcing you to authenticate again.
From memory, the behaviour on the old forum was:
If "remember me" is ticked, you get a persistent cookie which lasts for 14 days.
If it is not ticked then instead you get a session cookie which lasts until you close the window.
... in theory, at any rate. Chrome does something froody with session cookies which makes them persist beyond the life of the window, you'd to either restart your browser or PC to properly reset them, I can't remember which.
The glitch I discovered with the patient help of a couple of other forum users occurred on the login page. If you clicked the redirecting link I posted earlier and were already logged in, it overwrote the persistent cookie with a temporary one. I wasn't affected even though I use that link all the time because I very rarely close down a browser so the cookie was continually being refreshed.
There may well have been something else that we never got to the bottom of too of course, I doubt this scenario applied to everyone who was affected.