There's also such a thing as beautiful cadence and sound even in spoken speech.
Again, it takes a special kind of crazy to appreciate that in a language you don't understand.
Who the hell listens to say, slam poetry in latin?
Hipsters or insane people. Take your pick.
There's also such a thing as beautiful cadence and sound even in spoken speech. Have you never heard anyone comment on the beautiful sound of a language they don't understand?
You've cracked it Mol. He has the audio book version of the ancient text. I can't see any other way he could like the sound. Perhaps he has the original from God's Dictaphone?
[s]Nine[/s] Ten pages in 24hrs...who'd a thought.
kerley - MemberI see having faith as a mental condition / personality disorder. Nothing wrong with that (I have my own personality disorder) but people need to see it as it is and understand it from that angle.
Be careful with this one. Stating something similar has got me a verbal kicking on here for years
Be careful with this one. Stating something similar has got me a verbal kicking on here for years
Yeah, but you've got previous bruv.
Helmets etc
It's too difficult to call everyone out for it.
I just explain it to you, cos you know, you're worth saving 😉
I still want to know how someone can read a language that they haven't learned. With their eyes closed.
If I said that I could cook a meal blindfolded, from a recipe written in cuneiform script ... someone would probably call me out on it. But you'd really rather expect them to think me deluded.
I can read a foreign language if it's in roman script. Don't always understand it of course.
You only thik you're reading it, Molgrips. In some cases if you heard a native speaker reading it you wouldn't be able to follow the writing. I've experienced this when teaching French and Spanish speaking adults English. They have to be taught the phonetics before they can follow.
Ask a Basque to pronounce Ieuan, or yourself Patxi or Ledeuix.
Be careful with this one. Stating something similar has got me a verbal kicking on here for years
It's just an opinion, i think people who believe in a god are either insane, stupid or ignorant and I include some friends and family members in that statement. It doesn't mean to say I constant mock them but I will do if they bring up their religion/beliefs to explain things that have been already proved by science etc
religious people = dim or dishonest take your pick
Well, this thread is proving the Theists and the OP's article correct.
And I thought we'd grown.
I wouldn't have thought it could reach 10 pages this time. What more is there to be said?
Well, this thread is proving the Theists and the OP's article correct.And I thought we'd grown.
Fortunately, us mentally ill, dim and dishonest folks are also inclined to be the forgiving sort.
FWIW religion has to be exempt from the DSM* or they would be classed as mentally ill
Its an interesting one.
On the one hand to describe folk as this is rude but on the other hand they converse with , feel the presence of and follow an entity that is not real so its hard to be that respectful of such a belief....free though they are to make it.
TBh I find it as silly as someone saying they do things because the mushroom folk told them and it makes just as much sense.
Yes very bright otherwise sane folk believe but I still find it incredible that they do and not a choice I can respect or value.
It also does not mean that most of them are not wonderful people just like those who dont like cycling can be wrong and yet also nice.
* Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
grown? we are talking about an invisible father figure in the sky, perhaps growing up might be better.
9 o'clock is obviously the witching hour for the bigots.
FWIW religion has to be exempt from the DSM* or they would be classed as mentally ill
This is bigger balls than the guy stating he can read languages he doesn't know via faith.
There is no way religious belief has ever been considered for inclusion in DSM. You'd be medicalising over half the worlds population, mental disorders are by definition outside of the normal expected human behaviour/psychology.
Dysrationalia maybe, but seeing as this seems to be within normal human functioning then I don't see how it can be medicalised. We're just a shit species.
o mefty you cut me.
This is bigger balls than the guy stating he can read languages he doesn't know via faith.
To be fair, it is specifically referred to as exempt ...
What the APA Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM IV-TR, p. 821) says about delusion:A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person’s culture or subcultur [b](e.g., it is not an article of religious faith).[/b]
If it wasn't, no doubt the militant atheists would be campaigning to have every religious person sectioned.
mefty - Member
9 o'clock is obviously the witching hour for the bigots.
No one is being bigoted here
I read many books both by the New Atheists and their Theistic opponents in the late noughties. I then thought I'd check out some churches just to see what the people are like, i.e. are they mad/deluded as I didn't really know any practicing religious believers.
I've attended Catholic churches, Anglican churches, Methodist churches, evangelical churches, and Quaker meeting houses since, some on a fairly regular basis. I tend to ask for a blessing rather than participate in the eucherist and if asked what I believe, say that I'm really not sure and just having a mooch around. (word of warning - it you try to do this, it is a good idea to say you are just visiting/in the area for a short while, as otherwise they will try to hook you in).
The only difference I've observed about the religious people I've met is that they are part of a community, which is quite weird considering most of us these days are not, as we live such atomised lives. And that changes how they behave to a large extent. Although I've met a few nutcases, the majority of the people are responsible, thinking people, with a tendency to introversion.
I've seen people who are great at cooperating, and then I've seen people who are busy-bodies and tend to make things unpleasant all round. People seem to alter their personalities/play up to certain roles, a bit like the Canterbury Tales.
I think a major reason why people don't like organised religion is that they may prefer their own company, as participating in any kind of community requires sacrifices and many times, it isn't worth the trouble. Undoubtedly a lot of people attended church out of a sense of duty as much as religious belief in the past.
I also learnt that vicars put in a lot of work and have to deal with some really upsetting things. My local vicar says the Lord's Prayer for the local people six times a day, and sometimes I reflect on that and find it a source of comfort. He is very much against emotional manipulation and says a lot of the problems he sees with people are issues of guilt, shame and fear (whether religion is the source of those feelings, or whether they just exist, is something I will ask him the next time I see him).
On the one hand to describe folk as this is rude but on the other hand they converse with , feel the presence of and follow an entity that is not real so its hard to be that respectful of such a belief.
It's hard to be respectful of such a belief, but should be trivial to be respectful of those who believe it, n'est-ce pas? Unless you're a sociopath, anyway. Play the ball, not the man.
It's a lesson I learned far too late in life, but mocking people for their beliefs is akin to mocking people for how they choose to look or for their lifestyle choices (see the thread on the cosplayer / furry Crystal Maze contestants the other day). Or Reducto Ad Absurdum, see Sophie Lancaster. You can of course choose to ridicule people you see as irrational or whatever, freedom of speech and all that, but that makes you not a very nice person. If you're happy being not a very nice person then fill your boots.
I find organised religion to be an affront to modern civilisation. But I'll defend absolutely an individual's right to believe what they want to believe. I'll engage them of course because I enjoy a debate whether it's about religion, politics or preferences of bicycle tyres. By discussing contentious subjects we rarely change our opinions but hopefully some of us at least learn stuff. I have on this thread.
If it wasn't, no doubt the militant atheists would be campaigning to have every religious person sectioned.
As you say, so idiots everywhere don't go labelling those with faith as mentally ill.
I get exasperated with a lot of religious folk or at least their beliefs, but I wouldn't dream of accusing them as being mentally ill. That isn't really fair at all - and religion does at least give some people a nice warm fuzzy feeling.
It's not exactly a nice universe we live in, as long as the religious don't intrude on other peoples freedoms, then whatever shelters people from the utterly cold horrific nature of the reality we inhabit is fine in my books.
I really just dislike missionaries, terrorists and anti-abortion dick heads.
I usually keep out of religion debates these days, but "stupid", "dim", "ignorant", "insane", "dishonest" etc are pretty strong words. Why can't you just simply say you don't believe in God and don't follow any religion, why use such emotive words and get so worked up? Just let it go, and let folks be!
Well said cougar. As above I have no time for religion organised or not but I go out of my way to ensure those religious people in my care have their spiritual needs met. I go much further than any of my colleagues do (usually its just a referral to the hospital chaplain that is made. I have never seen another nurse take a patient to church although I am sure some must do) but I will take them to services etc even when its hard work or inconvenient to do so if / as its important to them
this is one thing the absolutists on here seem unable to understand. You can dislike the religion but not the person and if one has a good moral sense you can divorce your feelings for the religion from the spiritual needs of the person. I can't count the number of boring hours I have spent sat in churches 'cos a patient wanted to go. None of those people would ever know my true feelings towards the religious.
Its the same to me as taking them to Hearts matches 🙂
Just let it go, and let folks be,what like religions do 😐
I usually keep out of religion debates these days, but "stupid", "dim", "ignorant", "insane", "dishonest" etc are pretty strong words. Why can't you just simply say you don't believe in God and don't follow any religion, why use such emotive words and get so worked up? Just let it go, and let folks be!
To be honest, it is very helpful because it enables us to see them for what they are, one of the great merits of the asymmetric moderation policy.
Just let it go, and let folks be
That would be fine but religion and religious leaders poke their "morals and illogical beliefs" where they don't belong. Just look at the issue of abortion and gay marriage in Northern Ireland or the fact that the House of Lords has 26 seats reserved for Church of England bishops.
I have no issue with people want to worship an imaginary being but it shouldn't have an influence on the country.
Just let it go, and let folks be,what like religions do
The problem is many religions don't. They try to interfere in the lives of the non religious constantly. From the constant attack on abortion rights to the prevention of condom usage in HIV rife areas to prescribing what I can do and when. My biggest bugbear is the insistence that we do not have the right to end our lives in the way we might want.
So it's just Episcopalian Christians you all don't like then?
Phew! .....Glad I'm a Presbyterian.
"enables us to see them for what they are", truth cuts both ways.i do believe. 😆
So it's just Episcopalian Christians you all don't like then?
Baptists.....Jehovas Witnesses for being downright annoying...hardcore Catholicism (see the Philippines and South America for how Catholicism can hilariously and utterly **** countries)....
Why can't you just simply say you don't believe in God and don't follow any religion, why use such emotive words and get so worked up?
The great thing about conflict is that it helps to take your mind off other things, like the end of summer/going back to work/existential boredom.
Religion threads on STW are the verbal equivalent of Saturday night punch ups.
My contribution is this - religion is supposed to be about god, but it always ends up being about money, which is the point Jesus made in the temple by throwing out the moneychangers - the event which ultimately got him crucified.
Religion threads on STW are the verbal equivalent of Saturday night punch ups.
I think you need to opposition to turn up for there to be a punch up which they generally don't.
I think you need to opposition to turn up for there to be a punch up which they generally don't.
*waves*
Or maybe their religious beliefs prohibit them getting into fights?
I genuinely don't know whether to be offended or not at being called dim, stupid, ignorant and insane.
There is a real temptation to get into a slanging match with some folks and put those claims to the test by applying my quite obviously deficient intellect to the task of mercilessly ripping the piss out of people but in a less lighthearted and jocular manner than I normally do.
Can't be arsed though, because, as I said in my very first post on this thread, there is no wisdom to be found here.
"enables us to see them for what they are", truth cuts both ways.i do believe.
Indeed I am very comfortable being a church goer, if you are one the the bigots, I glad you are comfortable with that too - everyone needs goals.
Post removed. Pointless and stupid of me to reply
Yeah, that's it, run away 'cos you know you've got no evidence. Typical.
Atheists, the playground is ours!
No theists allowed!
That kind of thing, etc, will be coming up soon.
Can't be arsed though, because, as I said in my very first post on this thread, there is no wisdom to be found here.
You are undoubtedly right there - I take a Falstaffian approach: a bit teacher, a bit jester (though they miss the jokes), and finally I like to be a bit bellicose. The last bit is the best, you get posts deleted, almost as naughty as running through cornfields.
A bit of this, a bit of that. a bit of whinging. It's like being a Christian in modern UK.
So it's just Episcopalian Christians you all don't like then?Phew! .....Glad I'm a Presbyterian.
What's the difference?
(Not trolling, a genuine request for information, I have no notion of what either of those terms really mean.)
And that's where religion falls down. It sets people up to subjugate others. Inquisitions, ISIs, Crusaders, la Marche pour Tous have power based on submission. Submit to their doctrine and even their presence at you peril. There is no compromise, give them a bit of slack and as they're control freaks they'll start messing up your life.
I think modern Christianity is moving on from that, even Catholicism is changing. As humanity moves on, Christianity will have to move with it to survive, this started when they played "fast and loose" with the old testament.
When Christianity had to ingratiate itself into the heathen populations 😉 it subsumed certain rituals and symbolisms of that culture. Its now having to adapt again, but its not church led, its being led by the people, because without the people, Christianity is dead.
If that article(remember that?) is to be "believed", it would appear that Atheism is stuck in its own cultural dark age, rigidly believing that in the case of Christianity for instance, Christians have to believe in the bible, the whole bible, and nothing but the bible. Its War propaganda, demonizing your enemy.
The Atheist religion 8) will also have to move with the times.
I'm saying this as someone who doesn't believe in a God.
Its War propaganda, demonizing your enemy.
Sorry, it's not clear to me: are you suggesting that it's propaganda by the Atheists in the study, or the Catholic university who funded it?
I genuinely don't know whether to be offended or not at being called dim, stupid, ignorant and insane.
You really shouldn't be.
Just dicks being dicks. No great shock.
