[Closed] Any project managers in?

I'm a technical PM

Just sort of morphed into it TBH

I have to go and do a Prince2 course next week as a new client is insisting on it, so that may be something to look into?

I came into it from a grad scheme but that is not necessarily the right, nor even necessarily the best way to do it. I don't think you've missed the boat at all.

senior tech support (running a hell desk and maintaining servers/dbs), fell out with the boss, apllied for another job, got it. said job was project management. project management is about managing projects and the biggest asset you have on a project is people, so experirnce of managing people is what you need. generally, that'll mean being a bit seniour in what you're doing now. have you "delivered" on anything, or do you just do waht your told? before moving i'd already implemented some new systems, maaneged the instalaltion of some server farms and had devloped contacts so that when i moved, i already knew the people i'd have to talk to to start running bigger projects.
what i'm saying is - can you demonstarte that you can do it?
also, think about certification - prince2 would probably help

EDIT - but typing skillz don't matter so much

Prince2 and APM http://www.apm.org.uk/ are what our company offers, loads of PMs here and "aspiring".

I'm in a small dev team so I have managed myself to deliver projects when I've been the sole developer working on them. I'm the junior in our team of two though, so no experience of managing others

I was about to suggest that there's technical management as well but then uplink has already mentioned that. I'd never done anything Management related before last year when I got involved in some process tailoring and some bid work which both used technical manager-y type skills and frankly I enjoyed it.
Like you I was only ever adequate as a software engineer but lately I've been doing a lot of requirements analysis, requirements management and business analysis which would suit anyone with a technical inclination who prefers to look at the big picture rather than the fine detail.

Yeah I'd definitely get Prince certified if you're looking to switch. Is project management really what you want to do though? To me it's mind-numbingly tedious (fortunately now we'd started hiring pure PMs I can get back to technical stuff and stop ham-fistedly trying to PM as well). From all the PMs I've worked with it seems the common denominator is having an ability to be anal about details and follow up on meeting actions etc. rather than have an understanding of the technical side of a project. Don't get me wrong, I like PMs as they take away some of the admin BS, but I wouldn't appreciate a semi-technical one making assumptions about something I had to deliver or questioning timescales I give based on a bit of knowledge they think they have.
What about getting into a BA role and/or doing stuff with BI applications, they seem to be all the rage at the moment with companies throwing money at systems/people (much like with ERP 10 years ago). If you can throw 'cloud' into a sentence and keep a straight face the world's your oyster to.

My career has gone:

IT Support
Developer
Requirements Analyst/Designer
Technology Architecture and Strategy
Technical Lead (sort of troubleshooting technical PM)
Portfolio Manager (making sure a set of projects got delivered)
Demand and Delivery Manager
Technology Innovation (which is by far the most interesting - getting people interested in very new stuff and convincing them to commercialise it)

In your position some kind of technical project management might be a good place to start - is there anything small you can start with in your current role? Or requirements analysis? Gets you more exposed to users?

All you really are as an IT project manager is a scapegoat - the techies patronise cos you earn more than them in spite of clearly being much less clever, and the business hate you as there is an extra button they have to push on the screen, which is CHANGE and to be reviled.

But yes, Agile Project Management is the latest thing.

The recruitment consultant I was chatting to today mentioned technical management and BA (business analysis?) too. BI - business intelligence? Any good online resources for finding out a bit more about what these entail?

All you really are as an IT project manager is a scapegoat - the techies patronise cos you earn more than them in spite of clearly being much less clever, and the business hate you as there is an extra button they have to push on the screen, which is CHANGE and to be reviled.

Sounds great, sign me up! 😉

Or requirements analysis?

Kind of, on a small scale. I talk to the end user (or commissioning client) and then knock out what they've asked for.

Oh, and you get to walk away from things that are quite rubbish, if you are clever and get to say things like "thats not native to the system/application" and, "that wasn't in the requirements analysis document" as you walk away...

Go Agile, saves writing documents and having gantt charts.

Those that can - do
Those that can't - project manage.

Sounds like an ideal progression

Quite, Tiger

So Agile project management is PM without the Gantt charts and scope?

WTF do they actually do then? Just harass the delivery team with unreasonable contradictory demands all day?

There actually is a serious question in there somewhere 🙂 - I can see the point of iterative design for some projects, but it's all a bit open ended for my liking.

WTF do they actually do then?

Remove blockers and organise stand up meetings

As Tiger6791 neatly sums up the mature and professional attitude you get from the techies.

(I hate it, I have dabbled and it was thrust upon me and I did not seek it out)

Done well however it is something to behold. Lets face it the business think the techs are green wizards and the techs think the business are morons, so somebody has to translate.

In May I switched from a Marketing campaign role internally to our Change Dept as a Project Analyst and am beginning to see the banality of it all. Especially the chasing of actions and setting up meetings. And am now wondering how the hell do I get back into Marketing.

Thought it would be interesting given the amount of change my organisation was going through, and to gain a few more skills given that marketing jobs can be quite scarce.

Learnt a valuable lesson the grass isn't always greener.

somebody has to translate.

See, that's where I think I can fit in

We have a 30% overhead now on projects for PM effort, makes my blood boil, especially when some weeks I'm spending more hours in update meetings than I am on actually implementation effort :p

On the BI side now's the time to get into Sharepoint, there's a huge demand out there for people that know the business side of it (workflows etc.). Most people we get to fulfil roles (or retrain to it internally) seem to be half technical (from a programming side) and half businessy (PMs, BA's etc.) as you need an understanding of both really.

As Tiger6791 neatly sums up the mature and professional attitude you get from the techies.

Hang on, I'm on the PM side of the fence. 😐

Agile Project Management = starting before you know what you want and then making it up as you go along.

Lets face it the business think the techs are green wizards and the techs think the business are morons, so somebody has to translate.

This made me think of the Office Space scene with Tom and the 2 Bobs...

BOB SLYDELL
So what you do is you take the specifications from the customers and
you bring them down to the software engineers?

TOM
That, that's right.

BOB PORTER
Well, then I gotta ask, then why can't the customers just take the
specifications directly to the software people, huh?

TOM
Well, uh, uh, uh, because, uh, engineers are not good at dealing with
customers.

BOB SLYDELL
You physically take the specs from the customer?

TOM
Well, no, my, my secretary does that, or, or the fax.

BOB SLYDELL
Ah.

BOB PORTER
Then you must physically bring them to the software people.

TOM
Well...no. Yeah, I mean, sometimes.

BOB SLYDELL
Well, what would you say… you do here?

TOM
Well, look, I already told you. I deal with the goddamn customers so
the engineers don't have to!! I have people skills!! I am good at
dealing with people!!! Can't you understand that?!? WHAT THE HELL IS
WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!!!!!!!

I wouldn't recommend pm'ING Tbh. Agile is definitely on the up. Some pretty dumb comments on here so suggest you do your own research. I can help via email or if you are near soton can meet up and have a chat

Don't forget to go on holiday the day the project is scheduled to finish.

That's been such a consistent approach across every single project manager I've worked with that I am totally convinced they teach it in project manager school.

That aside, there are some good ones out there. They are typically the ones that talk properly to the people carrying out the actions assigned from the project and make a real effort to understand the challenges faced by those individuals.

[i]the techies patronise cos you earn more than them in spite of clearly being much less clever[/i]

Well I agree with them being less clever than me but I've never worked anywhere where PM's get paid more than techies. What kind of crazy place would that be?

British Computer Society has information on Business Analysis. There is a qualification in it - although I strongly suspect that very few practicing analysts have it.

It is also a very broad role - can include customer proposition development, business case development, process design, business requirements analysis, technical solution evaluations, feasibility studies, some architecture elements as you get more senior, and some would include testing and UAT support etc.

So it can cover the full system development life cycle and a lot of work before the SDLC even starts. Lots of jobs now asking for BAs with Agile experience.

Business Intelligence is big at the moment - it very simple terms it has grown out of data warehousing and tools and distribution mediums to exploit that data to provide actional insight into business decisions whether they be strategic decisions or more day to day decisions. Tools like Hyperion Essbase and Business Objects have revolutionized standard management reporting, providing more flexibility see new patterns and trends in your business data.

For a number of years it has also been tied up with classic outbound marketing CRM type activity and there is lots of interest these days in active warehousing and operational real time CRM

I am sure some BI experts would say this is very simplistic and there is a lot missing but it is a start

From experience you either get PMs who are a slave to the process and doggedly try and impose order where order may not be necessary or appropriate
Then you get the 'meddling technical' PM who has a bit of skill but is more dangerous than helpful by making assumptions, guesses and downright lies based on their modicum of technical 'ability'. They then half impose order, half guess stuff, interpret technical feedback and lie to the business. They then leave before the project goes up in a mushroom cloud.
If I could kill all project managers I would, my staff excepted as they are great because I am a people person and I SHOUT LOUDER THAN THEM 😯
I started life as a software engineer (jesus watch out that will start the debate on engineers again ....) and am now a partner in a big firm vai several businesses so what would i know as I still am looking for my career !

I do a bit of digital project management, which is like technical project management but with more emphasis on colouring in. My advice is focus on your people & listening skills, don't get too bogged down in detail and always think ahead. A good PM lets people get on with their job and understands where the project is going and can think forward enough to make sure the path is clear. Prince2 looks good on your CV. With agile - make sure your stories are solid and you're not afraid to make decisions quickly.

As as aside, my Google alerts tell me there is a lot of work in Aberdeen in this area at the moment in the Oil Industry. Good pay, the downside being you have to live in Aberdeen.

I was a Contracts Manager on a decent salary, nice car etc - and loads of stress. Got out nearly 2 years ago to work for myself. Back on the tools and not looked back. Never ever again!