[Closed] Any Ex Lawyers On Here?

once you've sold your soul to the Devil I'm pretty sure you can;t get it back

😉

An ex girlfriend lawyer gave it up to become a midwife!

Er - I managed to realise after 3 years at uni studying law I couldn't live with the boredom, thinking I was destined for greater things....after a few years I found myself working in IT as a developer.....the excitement thing didn't exactly work out!

Work as a pm now.

Wondering if there's anyone else here who has quit the profession and what line you went into?

Not yet, but on the cusp daily.

No idea what else to do, but i know I need a plan. Actually, I don't particularly hate the law, just the permanent state of paranoia that private practice seems to bring about.

I could happily head in-house, but there aren't exactly an abundance of openings right now....

You need a plan and a clear exit strategy.

I could almost kiss you ourmaninthenorth. That's exactly how I'm feeling.

I've been told by a doctor friend that I'm right at the point of burnout.

It's the constant self doubt, triple checking and having to protect yourself from other people which is killing my love of the job.

I would gladly take a public sector job. Looking at journalism as well. Trying to find a post grad course.

A very dear friend of mine left a magic circle firm to become a legal journalist. Did very well at it as well. Is now freelancing and struggling, however. There just isn't the work.

Another friend was in the top stream at Freshfields for about four years, groomed for greatness etc. He now lives in Herefordshire and sells burglar alarms to farmers.

Plenty of burn out, 'tis true. Especially in that London's Famous London.

Public service?
Fresh air?
Job satisfaction?
Time to ride your bike?

[img] [/img]

Free uniform and natty cap too!

I could almost kiss you ourmaninthenorth.

Steady on, old boy..!

The biggest issue is the change in salary. I don't think I'm well paid for what I do (I don't work in London, but am a corporate lawyer, so receive 50% of the pay for just as many hours), but becoming, say, a journalist, would require such a drop in income, my lifestyle couldn't take it.

If you can do it, great. That's the biggest hurdle cleared. If not, then consider a staged exit.

I believe the book "What colour if your parachute" by Dick Bolles is generally regarded as the definitive text on career change. Get a copy of that, and let it help you plan your exit.

Though not a lawyer, my cousin's husband had got to the point of having enough in his job (he designed car engines), and so set himself a timeline of six months to find something else. He said his plan involved starting at "how will I make money: should I invent something and live on the royalties, take another job or work for myself?" He chose working for himself and then set about creating a list of requirements for what he was going to do. The upshot is that he bought a nursery (children) business, and is now opening his second. His only knowledge of childcare is that he is a parent. One of his criteria ws that he would not turn his hobbies into his job (so, no bike shops for us, then...!).

As a child, I wanted to be first a pilot (but I am very shortsighted, so that was out pretty quickly) and second a journalist. I fell into law because I felt I ought to get a "proper" job that paid well. I can understand the desire to go into writing and would do the same, but for (1) money and (2) the changing nature of journalism these days (spoke to an ex-fleet street hack recently who suggested law was a better career choice. He now runs a PR business).

Good luck..!

I would gladly take a public sector job. Looking at journalism as well. Trying to find a post grad course.

Wanna trade lives?

Can I just run it by Mrs North? 🙂

Be careful of Canadian lawyering. US working habits, UK pay structures.

In reality, the key issue many have is the formulaic approach to practising law (certainly IME), the ridiculous clambering over people in pursuit of career advancement, and the fact that you give up your whole life to work.

Aprat from that, it's great.

Can I just run it by Mrs North?

I guess the next step is to send photos of the Mrs and we'll go from there.

Around half of my friends are lawyers. They all seem to find it boring but make up for it with the socialising - they're constantly boozing.
Although not a lawyer I can imagine how bad the paranoia can be - on the whole I find them an Angsty bunch, gossipy and attention seeking.
I've found that work-wise, I enjoy myself when not in high-achiever type places. I work at a not particularly ambitious place, but on the whole the people I work with are pretty cool and relaxed.
Ah Ambizione! so cruel.

Am a silver circle (which cracks me up - hence saying it) lawyer feeling exactly the same as you shooterman and ourmaninthenorth. I just want to ride more. Looked at the back of the most recent gazette recently? Some of the stuff looks interesting.

Am stuck in the office drafting and its friday night. had to do exactly the same thing last night till 10:30.....

Check out NCTJ for postgrad journalism courses.

Six-month course was good when I trained in the early 90s anyway. And you should have a headstart on the legal modules.

Certainly would be a pay cut though. I know more people who've gone the other way.

I should say I'm in an area where salaries tend to be much lower. The ceiling for an employed solicitor at 5-6 yrs PQE seems to be around £35k but that usually involves at least 15 unpaid hours per week.

At the minute I'm doing a 100 mile commute each day and there are some pretty nasty issues to deal with in the office I work in.

Just think all the job has brought is heartache. I've convinved the wife that it's not in my best interests to continue. Just need to speak to my mum who supported me a lot during my stidies.

Mrs ChrisE is a lawyer. She worked for a Magic Circle firm in London then got out to work in-house nearer home (Warrington, home being near Settle 1.5 hours drive away). Now she is back to getting back home for 10pm every night. Grrrrr I hate it.

C

My wife is a lawyer. Was very unhappy, then she made a decision to get out of the corporate crap and into criminal law. Much less money, but luckily that was not a consideration.

She loved it so much she became a barrister and then a prosecutor. I've got a mate who is a senior partner in a major law firm, and he is miserable most of the time because he doesn't get enough free time to spend with his family.

Once you're dead, the only people who give a shit are your family. If you alienate them by never being there, no-one is going to care. In which case, why are you working so hard?

It seems to me that if you chase the money/prestige in law, you're going to be miserable.

Once you're dead, the only people who give a shit are your family. If you alienate them by never being there, no-one is going to care. In which case, why are you working so hard?

Sometimes i read a sentence or paragraph and things make sense, this is one of them.

I'm so glad I jibbed law school and went back to doing something I love...
Oh, and yes, I *am* poor, but I don't care.

Once you're dead, the only people who give a shit are your family

true, which is why i just dropped from a 50hr min week.

work less spend less.

I know it's easier said than done but remember the firm you work for will only every send flowers to your funeral!!!! Good luck on finding something else. Yeah how about a criminal prosecutor, less money but would it not be more interesting .....??????????? just trying to help with a suggestion.

To be honest, I think I've had a particularly unlucky run of it. I wouldn't want to put anyone reading this off a career in the law.

A few years back the guy I was working for got into trouble. He stopped paying me, the secretary and a few others. He sold his practice in a fire sale. I went to the new practice under TUPE but again wasn't getting paid for months while they "sorted out" the situation. I had just finished my LPC and was skint and my wife was 5 months pregnant with our second child.

Ended up having to remortgage as a result. Luckily, I got head hunted shortly afterwards. (And the guy who hadn't been paying me attacked me for lack of loyalty!)

Had 3 good years and then credit crunch. There was a cull of staff above a certain age (and therefore salary level). Unemployed for a month then got a temporary job covering for someone who has had a meltdown and if I don't get out of the place soon so will I.

So, not a positive experience for me and I think I've put my family through enough. If I could get some sort of clerical job paying about 18k we would be able to survive.

I have thought of moving region and trying to get into a larger firm with a more clearly defined career structure. However, a bit of time out I think may clear the picture for me. However, I am approaching 40 so I am conscious of mistakes at this stage having more serious consequences.

How about "Poor law" of some sort? I know a couple of people who do citizens advice and similar jobs - and there are law centres as well. Normal sort of pay in the 20s of thousands. Normal working weeks of civilized hours. Job satisfaction

Yes TJ. I did a lot of welfare law and social security tribunal work. Got an interview for such a position in my hometown paying about 23k but the wife wouldn't hear of it!

If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working, as Tuco says in the Good the bad and the ugly.
Friend of mine packed in practicing law and now teaches it at a London University. He doesn't have a phd, just a Masters - the BCL from Oxford.
Gets paid good money (49k) three years into it, and only has to go in three days a week. Cha ching. 😀

Mrs IATR is in Real Estate Finance (corporate) and really enjoys it, about 10yrs PQE now - working for one of the bigger ones.

Her first few years were in litigation for a small, private practice which she absolutely hated towards the end. The role she does now seems a lot more about negotiating with other lawyers towards a common goal (she mostly represents the banks) rather than the blood and thunder of litigation.

Have you considered a change in field?

I have considered a change of field. However, in the current economic climate options are limited.

I would be happy with a 30% pay cut, smaller workload, 9-5 mon to friday and no pressure to develop my employer's business beyond doing a good job for the clients and getting repeat and recommendation business.

[i]he is miserable most of the time because he doesn't get enough free time to spend with his family.[/i]

It's this soft, fluffy stuff that's the problem. Once you've stopped giving a toss whether you see your family, and once they just think of you as someone who creates all the money that makes their lives worth living and allows them to have worthwhile personalities then it's all primed to go swimmingly. You have to work up to it gradually, just skipping dinner occasionally won't do it. One day you just have to decide that you're going to go into the office on Saturday morning, just for an hour and then come back on Monday evening, even if you've got nothing to do. Tell her you got caught up, fascinating stuff, very important, client relying on tyou to come good. Next step is to do it on a weekend when your wife is expecting to be taken away for a romantic weekend break. This establishes your indifference and her resentment as a pattern which will enable you to stay in the office more because you don't want to go home and she doesn't care whether you do or not.

Then you can start forcing her to make excuses for your absence by skipping weddings, family parties and that kind of thing. Once she's started talking to other people about how hard you work but how worthwhile it is she'll rapidly start conforming to the ideology, which is the big battle won. By this stage you can reasonably safely cite "a Big Deal" as a reason not to go on holiday, at which point she'll be largely independent of you. You can get your work done, while she is in a hotel in the Seychelles with your credit card. Everyone's happy.

At some point she'll probably have decided to have some children. Same deal, essentially. They're her children so she and the nanny will just have to look after them until they're big enough for boarding school. Don't start this "home by bathtime" rubbish, just phone them up occasionally and ask them whether they fancy Harvard or Yale. If you buy them a pony occasionally and call them "son" or "darling" (depending on gender) they won't resent you unless the money stops coming. And you've cleared the decks to make sure nothing gets in the way of that. 8)

BigDummy, that would have been funny had it not been for the familiarity of some of the content:

[i]One day you just have to decide that you're going to go into the office on Saturday morning[/i] CHECK

[/i]forcing her to make excuses for your absence by skipping weddings, family parties and that kind of thing.[i] CHECK

[/i]"a Big Deal" as a reason not to go on holiday,[i] Came close to it.

[i]just phone them up occasionally [/i] Shifting uncomfortably in my seat.

Criminal Law here, although I never practiced in it. Ended up in Management within Engineering/Manufacturing sector, through various haphazard career choices.

Redundant at the moment through the Co. going bust! Often think where I'd be now if I'd continued in Law. Been too long out of it now and not sure whether a 'refresher' course of some sort would be adequate (although I haven't researched it to be honest).

The grass isn't necessarily greener... perhaps as you say a different law firm with better structure/career progression?

Shooterman - Have you thought of going in-house and specialising? I swapped private practice for banking several years ago, and it proved to be a turning point in my life. Nor did I encounter any problems returning to banking just over a year ago after taking a year long sabbatical.

Whilst banking may not be a popular profession at the moment, God knows we need good lawyers!

It comes down to this, if your working environment contains a$$holes, then you can expect to be sprayed with sh1t frequently, and you'll never get any credit or appreciation. No amount of money is compensation for servitude.

Everyone can change their life tomorrow. It's not worth living in misery. Really, really, there's a better life out there if you just grab it.

A rich man isn't the bloke with the most money, it's the bloke who has the autonomy to do what he enjoys.

shooterman - I did public inquiry work contracted to TSol for 11 years working all over the country, salary topped out around the same as yours but i had to move all the time and the hours were long (leaving a sleeping bag/rollmat at work when i couldnt be arsed to ride home and then ride back in after 3 hrs sleep).

Sacked it all off at Xmas 2004 and went to Canada for 2005 and rode lots. Came back and decided to do what i really wanted to do when i was younger and not what other thought would be best for me.

Now work as a fireman. Fixed hours, decent enough wage, plenty ride time and work with the best mates in the world. Actually look forward to work, which happened rarely in law. Its not for everyone, but its my perfect job and proof that you can make a total change for the better.

Some really good stuff on this thread. I very much appreciate the inout from a lot of folk who clearly know what they're talking about.

I have thought that specialising would be the way forward. I mainly do one type of work, PI litigation, but I also do criminal, family, divorce, wills, probate, land disputes. I made a right co@k of myself in the magistrate's court this week simply because I'm not familiar with the instricacies of the work. Still cringing as I'm typing this.

I like the idea of really developing expertise in a particular field. Banking would do me fine as indeed would welfare law or any other aspect of law I could carve a niche in.