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From Somerset originally and have lived around Glasgow since 99 .
Can honestly say I can't remember any real Anti englishness that hasn't been just piss taking . I was a bit worried during the referendum that some people might turn a bit but my experience of it was fairly well natured .
Glasgow is a good place to be but if I was after something more rural the area round comrie would be high on the list , lovely area with great riding and only an hour or so from Glasgow
I'm in Edinburgh
My wife finds its less about being English and more about 'which school did your husband go to'
I've lived in Edinburgh for 20+ years and don't think anyone has ever asked either myself or my wife what school I went to. Given both my kids went to private school I'd have thought that if it was ever going to happen it'd have been from other private school parents.
How do you know that the Scots like you..?
They start taking the p**s and using banter in a very open way. Normally, it's genuine and it's friendly. Not everyone who meets it understands it though.
The Scots are also good at bringing folk down if they get a bit above themselves...
Dundee is a city with loads of very happy incomers from all parts; well worth considering for many reasons from so many aspects- culture, healthcare, education, transport links, drier climate than Wales or Galloway, biking, so many other outdoor sports... And property is very reasonable.
I was a bit worried during the referendum that some people might turn a bit but my experience of it was fairly well natured.
Likewise, based on previous experience, I had visions of grown men running round screaming 'FREEDOM!' at any English folk they came across, but it was not to be and was actually quite civilised.
Could be that most of the unpleasantness is restricted to under 20's and they grow out of it - although if all adults have grown out of it, where do the young ones learn it from in the first place.
Anyway, as I said before, at the end of the day it hasn't put me off living here and i'd certainly never go back.
Dundee is a city with loads of very happy incomers from all parts; well worth considering for many reasons from so many aspects- culture, healthcare, education, transport links, biking, so many other outdoor sports... And property is very reasonable.
Property is reasonable 'cause Dundee is a shithole!
any other experiences or points that aren't racism-related?
We moved to the Borders (near Melrose) nearly 5 years ago now, took over my parents place (they're English and had retired here 20 years previously).
Based on a couple of folk who I've worked with for the last two years, I'd avoid Dumfries (and that area) - think its got a load of small town 'troubles', and always in the BBC Scotland South news.
My son, 13 y/o at the time, hasn't had any issues at the local school (or college), and he had a proper home counties accent plus private school educated.
You can get an awful lot for your money around here:
Plus take a look at the trails within 15 miles of here; Glentree, Innerleithen, Yair, Golfie and Thornielee.
As for Scotland, just the usual stuff about access to employment, services, schools etc that you'd find anywhere else really. Most things are pretty similar to what you'll find in England other than where some legislation is devolved.
For stuff like school holidays, you'll find that summer in Scotland apparently starts a few weeks before it does in England. Than [i]can[/i] make travel and accommodation slightly cheaper and you [i]may[/i] find that some places are less busy than they are at the peak of the English school holidays. Having said that, you'll find flights abroad harder to find and there can be supplements if you're into package holidays.
You might want to read up about the Curriculum for Excellence. It's fairly recently introduced and is not without its teething problems but is aimed at giving a more rounded education.
University fees (or the lack of) are something that might interest you.
Differentiated income tax will only affect higher earners at the moment.
If you're comparing council tax rates then be aware that water/sewerage is also charged through your CT bill and have a look at the costs.
If train travel is a requirement then that will limit your options. I'd be looking at where you'd get the most convenient connections.
@terrahawk - if you moved to an island every meeting can start with a triathlon to get there!
any other experiences or points that aren't racism-related?
Positives:
Obviously outdoor access rights are a massive positive, free prescriptions, free university, lack of traffic except around major cities.
Negatives:
Pretty much no direct flights to anywhere and going via London/Amsterdam you miss connections to a lot of AM flights - makes travelling a pita. Oh, and its [i]always[/i] cold - don't forget your arm warmers
While I respect your view, Epic, have you actually been here in the last 20 years? Dundee is a vibrant city now, very well regarded by folk who live here and nearby. Quite cosmopolitan and open to incomers; hence the new V&A museum site, for example. There are plenty of proper village 'communities' in the surrounding counties, if that is the OP's bag.
Nothing worse than the Welsh changing from English to Welsh as you enter their shops. Yes, my hearing is that bloody good.
While I respect your view, Epic, have you actually been here in the last 20 years?
Yes (about twice a week for a couple of years, up to about 6 months ago) - the city centre has definitely improved since my sister went to Uni there but outside the city centre it still doesn't seem very nice.
Agree there are lots of nice places you could commute from though. Much, much prefer Edinburgh though.
Never experienced that myself. Usually the other way round. But then I'm normally in places that get tourists.
On the flight situation it's much better than it used to be - we've never really struggled to find holiday flights from Glasgow or Edinburgh. Also Manchester airport isn't that big a hassle to get to from the central belt. Ok, London has lots more options but Scotland isn't at all bad and, if you're in the central belt, probably better than a lot of England.
makes travelling a pita
Glasgow and Edinburgh Airports? I thought they were not too bad at all considering the size of them. Dundee Airport on the other hand...
Dundee is a vibrant city now, very well regarded by folk who live here and nearby.
This (except the airport!). I've lived in Dundee for three different spells, once about 22 years ago, again 11 years ago and lastly a couple years back. Perfectly happy there each time but it is noticeably getting (even) better each time and I would move there permanently no problem.
Me - in 1978. I went to the local comp and did get a bit of a hard time but this was a long time ago.
I see very little anti englishness overall - far less than the anti scot rhetoric in the press and on here. It might be an element but its not a major thing. Anyway anywhere where your accent stands out marks you as different
As for travel - I have had direct flights from Edinburgh many times and east coast mainline is good. I would not move back down south now. Scotland is going in a different direction to England and one I feel much more at home with
Glasgow and Edinburgh Airports? I thought they were not too bad at all considering the size of them.
Pretty good for party beaches and stag/hen city breaks, not so much for other venues. Last summer I took the bike to Corsica, and the 'best' option turned out to be a 9hr drive to Gatwick.
Kendal you could still bike to work 🙂
I'm becoming familiar with some folk in Strathspey, by working alongside them occasionally. I've met no urine extraction for being English, only for being a yamyam. I think that's fair and reasonable.
Any reason why it has to be a different country. There are plenty of rural isolated places in England. Northumberland springs to mind. Alnwick and the Northumberland coast would be my first thought.
Sadly that is definitely a problem in Scotland, and the two girls would likely have to endure a certain amount of anti English hate at school.
This did happen a lot at my school, but it was the Highlands in the early 90's. I suspect it's a bit better now as so many people have moved up, but don't know for sure.
I think the Borders or Edinburgh wouldn't be as bad anyway. I live in Peebles and it would be a very good place to raise a family, housing is overpriced but it's generally a good town.
I'm based in North Wales (Conwy Valley) and have two kids - I'm of English birth. I came here for the lifestyle and work in the early 90's. Lucky enough to work in a field I enjoy following a Masters at Aberystwyth.
My kids go to a primary that is first language English and the eldest will go to a first language English secondary shortly. They both learn Welsh too but are not taught all subjects in Welsh. I know other friends locally who are Welsh/English but school their kids in Welsh - both are fine and work well. There is a range of good schooling on the north coast around Conwy/Colwyn Bay regardless of language.
My kids were born here in North Wales and consider themselves Welsh.... they could both play rugby for Wales. I haven't lived in England for any length of time for 25 years and moved so much when there that any sense of not fitting in here is equally matched by not fitting in anywhere before hand i.e. it's not really to do with nationality but more origin.
It's a great place here for outdoor sports, loads to do with active kids, well connected to NW England cities for stuff you can't get locally, good for work commuting (airports, 3 hours to London on direct Virgin train etc.). Loads of good riding locally that I'm still exploring, great lakes for open water swimming, sea and beaches, mountains, camping etc. etc.
It always feels good not to have to join the Sunday A55 departing traffic jam back to NW England 🙂
North Wales; just avoid Wrexham and Flintshire and you should be good. Oh and Rhyl. Avoid Rhyl.
Plenty of English speaking schools.
[quote=bigjim ]
Sadly that is definitely a problem in Scotland, and the two girls would likely have to endure a certain amount of anti English hate at school.
This did happen a lot at my school, but it was the Highlands in the early 90's. I suspect it's a bit better now as so many people have moved up, but don't know for sure.
As I posted on that "demographics" thread last week, around 25% of my neighbours are English, and that's Aviemore. Edinburgh is around 18% English, Argyll is higher. Most small town and villages have residents who've moved up from England and many have been around for decades. I can't believe they'd be putting up with racism for that length of time. Of course there are problems are folk coming up (and I mean from Scottish cities too) and not fully understanding the local community and their issues, but that's common everywhere.
I live in a small village in North Wales and our Welsh neighbours are very friendly. Tbh it is the English ones who are more standoffish. Never had any problems - I only wish I could speak more than a few words of Welsh.
I've been back for five years (did my degree nearby about 20 years ago) and I still absolutely love it. We are within 3 miles of beach, 2 miles from Snowdonia National Park and mountains, and 30 seconds from footpaths and woodland.
Work will be the issue. It's taken my wife five years to find a job. I work from home, and go to London 1-2 days a week so OK for now.
Any reason why it has to be a different country. There are plenty of rural isolated places in England. Northumberland springs to mind. Alnwick and the Northumberland coast would be my first thought.
We're familiar with the places we're considering and have talked about moving to one of them pretty much every time we have a holiday there.
Re: the Borders, a lot of people there consider themselves as "Borderers". It can be labelled many different ways but the gist is that Carlisle, Selkirk, Dumfries etc. are pretty similar in many aspects.
Rory Stewart MP did a really interesting TV documentary on it for the BBC a few years ago. Well worth digging out if you have time.
Terrahawk, I have just moved from N Wales to Cumbria. We lived in Mold , close to the Clwyd's (great riding, close to Chester and the motorways). Daughter grew up in a Welsh school (Maes Garmon) but the main school was English speaking (Mold Alyn) . The area you are looking at doesn't have that many Welsh High Schools. If your kids are going to junior school they get taught most stuff in English.
House prices are not too high in N Wales either. We had to downsize to get into a nice area in Cumbria. 🙂
I'm with epic steve on Dundee or Angus, great countryside the glens but Arbroth Forfar Montrose and Dundee
Could have had a Ford electronics factory years ago but too militant
No good jobs for young ones although lots of one parent families
Strange accent , Fifers slightly better but im excluding Leven methil and kircawdy
Saw some comments about flights but we've not had any problems getting to the important places...
Direct to Geneva for Alps trips
Direct to Vancouver for BC trips
(Almost) direct to Denver (1hr bounce in Iceland) for Colorado trips
🙂
Good independent schools (esp Edinburgh), excellent Uni degrees with four year courses providing broad education, great golf, decent weather on E coast at least, brilliant mountains and the east neuk. What's not to like?
Dont buy any property though in case you lose 30-40% of the value with the new "pund". Then snap it up!
Well, if he goes to the Borders it wont be a problem. It's basically England down there
You've not been to Hawick, have you?
I move up from Bucks 20 years ago, first to Edinburgh and now central Borders. I love it here and would never move back down to the south of England.
The anti English thing is a thing but seems more out of habit than any bad intent. Best demonstrated with sport when everyone cheers Anyone But England. They don't really know why, just feel obliged to do so. I am part of the community and have always been made to feel welcome.
I am glad my children have grown up here rather than down south.
only thing I'd say is avoid the SW, galloway dumfriesshire wee towns, always strike me as utter shiteholes anytime I've been through them, wouldn't like to live down that way. mining country that's never been regenerated. Galloway hills are nice if you like solitude mind you, don't think many in scotland know they exist! 😆
Born in Liverpool, moved up to Dumfries as a kid, b*ggered off for a few years up to Edinburgh, spent a couple of years in Carlisle and have ended up back in Dumfries again for the last 10 years.
Happy to give as good a local's perspective as I can, with the added 'bonus' of having actually lived/worked and spent real time in other parts of the country.
The GOOD
D&G & the Borders are two truly beautiful parts of the world, the pace of life is good and we're generally within an hour or two's drive of anything you'd typically need (mainline railway station, big cities, airports etc).
The cost of living, certainly around D&G is low, compared to pretty much everywhere else I hear about, however the average wage reflects that. Not sure of your line of work but places like Tesco, and the Council/NHS/local government are far and away the biggest employers around here.
House prices - very affordable, all things relative. Use the likes of DGSPC ( http://dgspc.co.uk/) & GGMW ( http://www.ggmw.co.uk/) as your research starting points, but a decent, 'typical' 3 bedroomed detached house in a nice enough part of town will run you something in the region of £150,000 ish.
The biking is outstanding, with all 7 Stanes + Drumlanrig all, obviously, very accessible. The Lakes is an hour or two's drive away, and very much all do'able in a day trip.
The natives are a generally friendly and welcoming bunch, yes the anti-English 'banter' is far more tedious than it is offensive but I've never felt anything other than safe walking around any of the towns in the region, day or night.
The BAD
I'm sure this is very much the same as most other places in the country, but there's a LOT of small-town mindset around these parts. Things move glacially slowly, and we're very, VERY much the forgotten corner of the country when it comes to things like funding and infrastructure. Town centres are generally a bit grim (with notable exceptions like Castle Douglas and Moffat in particular), with lots of empty shops and a growing drugs problem.
Forget any type of 'city' lifestyle. The concept of 'upmarket' dining and wining isn't commonplace down here. This doesn't bother us in the least, but you have to dig out the fine-dining type places (they do exist) if that's your gig.
Lastly, the weather is genuinely atrocious. Yes, it's a cliche, it rains a lot in Scotland but I honestly can't remember the last time I got out for a ride on the bike and didn't come back soaked to the skin and freezing cold. I'm not joking like, it's been quite literally MONTHS.
Most people don't really believe just how wet it is around here, and if you're not prepared for it, it really can get you down after weeks on end of endless, grey rainy days.
Happy to help or advise - might be easier to chuck me a PM for anything specific as I don't really check the main forums all that much!
In a nutshell, this IS a great place to live for anyone looking for a slower, country-ish way of ilfe and I'm generally very happy here (apart from the weather, which truly sucks the dick of a thousand dogs).
And yet my riding buddies and I were just discussing how dry it is up here - it's mostly dusty pine needles (that'll curse it).Lastly, the weather is genuinely atrocious. Yes, it's a cliche, it rains a lot in Scotland but I honestly can't remember the last time I got out for a ride on the bike and didn't come back soaked to the skin and freezing cold. I'm not joking like, it's been quite literally MONTHS.
weather? Edinburgh is the second driest place in the UK after Kent. I ride a bike most days - got wet about 2 times this winter so far
My parents moved up to fife when i was but a nipper i pribably know yourguitarhero on this forum as went lived in the same tinpot village at the same time.
I sound english to some scottish to others and once australian to an australian!
Never had any issue in 30years
My dad is English and shouts louder than most when he has to go to england 😆
I live in peebles now and its great
You've not been to Hawick, have you?
There's a slim chance I may have been taking the piss, as I suspect you are you cheeky scamp
Lastly, the weather is genuinely atrocious. Yes, it's a cliche, it rains a lot in Scotland but I honestly can't remember the last time I got out for a ride on the bike and didn't come back soaked to the skin and freezing cold. I'm not joking like, it's been quite literally MONTHS
Must be a micro-climate in neighbouring DG as I'm not seeing this here in Ayrshire.
Lastly, the weather is genuinely atrocious. Yes, it's a cliche, it rains a lot in Scotland but I honestly can't remember the last time I got out for a ride on the bike and didn't come back soaked to the skin and freezing cold. I'm not joking like, it's been quite literally MONTHS
Rode home from Edinburgh last night in shorts and without gloves.
Aye, still shorts up here last night.
At least no one has mentioned the midges.
A windy funnel should keep the barstads at bay
shorts? thats only 'cos yer all daft!