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Narrow country lanes… don’t overtake cyclists when traffic is coming the other way.
I didn’t mean trying to overtake with traffic coming the other way - I meant meant tight as if a car is just trying to pass two riders abreast when coming the other way. The rides went behind each other for 30 second there would be a bigger gap between them
Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike?
Because science. See my earlier post.
Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike? Doesn’t happen to drivers.
EDIT: convert said mostly the same thing already.
I saw an interesting Australian video on this, and apparently is a standard psychological behaviour to attribute the actions of an individual to the whole group if you don't consider yourself part of that group, whereas you attribute them to the individual for a group that you are part of.
Drivers typically consider themselves to be "drivers", so a driver being a dick is a driver being a dick, but cyclists are an "out group" and so a cyclist being a dick is considered representative of all cyclists.
It is of course the same thing that fuels prejudices against other minorities.
You also have confirmation bias. Cyclists don't stop at red lights, so when you see a cyclist not stopping that confirms your bias, and you ignore the majority that do stop.
It's interesting that despite popular perception, all studies I've seen show that cyclists are far more law abiding than motorists. If you encounter a motorist struggling with this idea, you may need to remind them that speeding is against the law.
In referance to the title; It's not a thing outside of the media or FB.
Top gear.
But then you have people using racist terms on this thread to describe others so it's hardly surprising that folk hate for hatings sake.
Pecking order. If you have a car then because you spend so much on it then you have the most right to use the road, everyone else is just there getting in the way and not paying enough for the right,
It’s not just cyclists vs non cyclists, i know a few who identify as mountainbikers (and drivers) who hate cyclists (roadies).
There's quite a few on here like that
🙄
Racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism etc are now all taboo, so the people who have these views but aren't able to express them openly move on to the next convenient and visible minority group to satisfy their infantile need to feel superior to someone. It's quite sad really.
Because we are British and everybody has a problem with something instead of just letting people enjoy what they enjoy and getting on with their own lives.
Its a hobbie for a lot of people to moan about another group of people.
In referance to the title; It’s not a thing outside of the media or FB.
So punishment passes aren't a thing then?
Or away from the roads, trail sabotage never happens? Or less malign but still pretty obvious, the torn face attitude of some other people you share the countryside with simply because you are on two wheels.
So you don’t agree that occasionally some cyclists can be arseholes just like any other road user and that their behaviour can cloud other road users’ judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?
It’s not equivalent.
And it’s also a British thing (and US, Aus to similar degrees, look at the cultural attitudes to cycling in those countries for some answers, compared to those of Switzerland, or The Netherlands, Italy etc))
What I mean is, there are no ‘normal’ cyclists as there are ‘normal’ drivers. There are those drivers who drive considerately and there are drivers who don’t. There are drivers who drive illegally and/or dangerously and there are those who don’t.
While that is true also of people riding bicycles, the overwhelming number of UK drivers do not ride bikes for transport. The culture of the UK for whatever reasons (a whole other topic) is car-culture. So car drivers see someone else diving like a dick, and while they may mutter/shout ‘white van ****er’ or ‘flippin Fiat driver’ or whatever handy ‘othering’ they feel they can rely upon to ‘other’ the dick without implicating drivers in general. They’re hardly going to shout ‘bloody motorist’ or ‘flipping driver!!!’ are they? Because driving is ‘normal’.
Whereas, if same driver witnesses someone on a bicycle behaving like a dick, the driver will be muttering/shouting ‘bloody cyclists!!!’. Not ‘Wilier ****er’, or ‘flipping F W Evans rider!!!’ There are no ‘normal’ cyclists in his/her mind. Just annoying dicks called ‘cyclists’.
The entire action of riding a bicycle on the road (in the UK) became ‘othered’.
Add to that, the majority of UK drivers have very poor to no knowledge of the legality, codes and reasons of and for cycling on public highways by which to judge whether said cyclist is being ‘dickish’ vs ‘safe and legal’.
Drivers don’t see each other taking the primary. They are the primary.
Culture + othering + entitlement/projection + ignorance + wound up by tabloidism covers most of it.
Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race" - H.G. Wells
When I was a kid, if you saw an adult on a bicycle they either (A) had stolen it, (B) were drunk, or (C) had lost their driving license, or (D) A, B and C.
If you think about it, cyclists are just another group that have an identity thrust upon them by society. In the same way that “golfers” are or “BMW drivers” are. Society lends them a group identity, golfers are all regarded as social climbing middle aged businessmen etc etc... cyclists are perceived by a lot of folk as either do-gooder environmentalists or Lycra clad roadie types.
Think that’s hard? Try being a cycling vegan teacher 😉
Yeah, try being vegan, cyclist and eu imigrant. 🙂
So you don’t agree that occasionally some cyclists can be arseholes just like any other road user and that their behaviour can cloud other road users’ judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?
Im going to take this response as you can't or don't want to justify why you said cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.”
If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.
Why should they like cyclists?
Telling that in this thread there is an 'othering' stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it's not cyclists.
The thing is, if you have to ask this question it means you are incapable of seeing the world from other peoples point of view and are therefore part of the problem. It is like a member of the aristocracy saying "anti hunting. Why is it a thing?" Well it is a thing because despite what happens in your own world, others see things from a different perspective and as the result of different experiences.
The better question to ask might be "Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?
One of the biggest is what i call the Clarkson effect
I'd agree with this.
I've seen a couple of episodes of a certain ITV quiz show, where when a contestant says they are a cyclist, the chicken-in-a-basket-comedian host pulls faces and says things like I hope you don't ride on the roads where I live. Gets a laugh from the audience every time. **** lockdown, or I never would've watched his moronic shite.
Im going to take this response as you can’t or don’t want to justify why you said cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.”
I said 'a significant minority'. Don't try to twist my words.
If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.
I presume this is a piss take?
Telling that in this thread there is an ‘othering’ stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it’s not cyclists.
Agree, what also amazes me is how a forum for cyclists some people to still fail to see it from a cyclists point of view. We are one, you made choose to ride trail, road, gravel, track but we are still cyclists.
The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?
You're absolutely spot on welshfarmer but if you don't understand why a certain prejudice exists it's hard to change perceptions.
Try being a cycling vegan teacher 😉
Virtue-signalling hat trick. I bet you talk about riding your little bike, and cooking your little lentils, and brainwashing the tikes into lauding the lycra-wearing lefty lebensraum, don’t you?
Not as if you're talking about normal stuff such as cars and bacon butties and IT, but as if you’re some kind of super-special virtuous little leftie liberal sparkly unicorn. </Clarkson>
Advertising must also take some of the blame. Car adverts offer a freedom that doesn't exist in reality. Consumers spend tens of thousands on posh cars that do 100+mph, then get stuck in urban jams of their own making. That must be frustrating and it certainly isn't the dream they were sold. Jealously watching 'bloody cyclists' sail past, having paid a paltry sum for their mode of transport simply builds resentment. They'll never question their own life choices as that's 'normal' to them, far easier to adopt a little media stoked 'othering'.
its telling that even on a cycling forum, a significant amount hold the opinion that cyclists on the road are an inconvenience and should always yield to the motorist.
The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?
If you don’t know (or even agree) ‘how’ it happened you’ll never even get to know (or even agree) how to change it.
The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?
Is this basically victim blaming? - Drivers are the most dangerous users of the road so they must adjust their behaviour to fit in.
I said ‘a significant minority’. Don’t try to twist my words.
I have asked you like 3 or 4 times now to explain why you think this but you seem incapable. Have a good day im off to cook lunch.
Some people just love a moan.
Became very apparent in lockdown1 - whatever your choice of daily excersise:
bike,
run,
walk,
walk so stupidly slowly there is no way it could be considered exercise,
then you moaned about everyone going faster and/or slower than you, because obviously only your choice was the correct one.
Every bike forum thread about this toic will bring out similar sentiments, car drivers are bad, BMW/white vans are bad, drivers speed, why cant they leave 5 mins earlier; and they get a nice nod and murmur of agreement from other cyclists and feel good about themselves, not seeing that they are doing the exact same thing that we are moaning about on here.
I have asked you like 3 or 4 times now to explain why you think this but you seem incapable.
Not at all incapable, it is simply such a straight-forward statement that I don't see how trying to reframe the wording of why I believe that the actions of a minority of one group of road users help cloud the judgement of a minority of other road users.
Because people are basically utter ****s and love to have something or someone to hate.
Telling that in this thread there is an ‘othering’ stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it’s not cyclists.
It was subtle but there 🙂
I hated them because they tried to kill me, literally I had to brake to avoid being side-swiped with a caravan. I don't really care if they paid their taxes (I have no firm evidence of whether they did or didn't, same as you) - but that wasn't the relevant point really, more that I was worth removing from the road by force because I didn't, although I did at the time own a car that cost £300+ in ved.
I presume this is a piss take?
Do you disagree?
If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.
Do you disagree?
But you could make the exact same observation about pretty much anything on the road that wasn't a car. Tractors, horses, busses, HGVs etc. But special ire seems to be reserved for cyclists.
Not at all incapable, it is simply such a straight-forward statement that I don’t see how trying to reframe the wording of why I believe that the actions of a minority of one group of road users help cloud the judgement of a minority of other road users.
I disagree, you made a statement but have't been able to provide any examples or further clarification as to why cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.” Its simply your opinion, and you're entitled to that. I however decided to push you on it because you are basically blaming cyclists for the issue.
For for example, if I say drivers drive like dicks ands are selfish its because
1. A driver to tried to push me into some parked cars last week at close to 20mph (i was in a 20mph zone) which could have results in a serious injury, all because I had "taken up too much space on the road" and am "not allowed to cycle in the middle of the road"
or,
2. A driver this morning punish passed me because I stopped him passing me when there was an island in the middle of the road. I as the vulnerable road user took the primary position and decided there wasn't enough space for us to both pass through in a safe way.
and as a bonus.
3. A few years ago a driver basically t-boned me because he thought he could get across a junction quicker than me.
Feel free to rip those apart and try and blame me as "selfish" or "riding like a dick" but every single one of those incidents was the drivers fault. I would go as far as saying in the majority of incidents involving a bike and a vehicle the vehicle is to blame.
Because 2 abreast mainly. Thats what boils my piss anyway.
It’s actually because British cyclists are entirely devoid of humour and self-awareness. Cyclists are humourless, self-righteous toadies to the toeclip. They are preening scolds looking down on all of us drivers. Add to this the fact that most of them are selfish little children lost in a world of grownups, and yet still fail to understand how it is that the rest of us will not let this pedalling prat have not only his cake and eat it, but our cake also!
Let cyclists eat cake by all means. But only if they pay the baker. No more free ride for those penny-pinching, puerile, posho pillocks who can spend £1500+ British Pounds on a child’s toy, and yet expect special treatment from those of us who actually pay our way to use our roads in actual vehicles?
Sorry, cyclists, but if you want to keep stuffing your faces with cake then you have to either pay the baker like the rest of us* , or else leave the table.
*This would mean you and your ilk:
- Paying road taxes
- Being licensed/registered with identifiable plate
- Taking out comprehensive insurance
- Moving aside for traffic (ie no road-hogging, no-one likes a road-hog)
- Using cycle paths not roads and pavements
- Dressing normally not like some lycra loonie
- Wearing Hi Viz if you are a hazard (which you are)
- Single file (no two abreast, ten abreast or however many breasts you feel like on any given day
Until such times, this matter was closed. Long time ago.
There was a poll conducted on television some decades ago as to whether we should keep cyclists on roads or not. The ‘blues’ won by a mile. Yet still you are here. Yet still you pedal your petty little cheapskate child’s toys/eye-wateringly-expensive middle-class gewgaws for us all to see, as if we are impressed? As if we are amused? Well, colour us decidedly unimpressed (you seem slow on the uptake with this one. Narcissism?). Yet we are amused. But we’re laughing at you, not with you. Gottit?
/satire
But special ire seems to be reserved for cyclists.
I am not sure if that is the case - as cyclists we see some road users' attitudes towards us but for many of us we have never experienced what it is like for other road users (ie, tractors, horses, busses, HGVs etc).
you are basically blaming cyclists for the issue.
Again you are twisting my words - I am not blaming cyclists, I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the 'Anti Cyclist' attitude shown by some other road users (the OP question I was giving my opinion on).
Feel free to rip those apart and try and blame me as “selfish” or “riding like a dick” but every single one of those incidents was the drivers fault. I would go as far as saying in the majority of incidents involving a bike and a vehicle the vehicle is to blame.
From those experiences you have done nothing wrong (and I have experienced similar situations myself). I am not trying to blame every cyclist for every incident. Far from it.
Because most cyclists are men
Man on horse - ****er
Woman on horse - hot
🤷♂️
“What you see in discourses about cycling is the absolute classic 1960s and 1970s social psychology of prejudice,” he explains. “It’s exactly those things that used to be done about minority ethnic groups and so on – the overgeneralisation of negative traits, under-representation of negative behaviours by one’s own group, that kind of thing. It’s just textbook prejudiced behaviour.”
Guardian already did it.
Again you are twisting my words – I am not blaming cyclists, I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users (the OP question I was giving my opinion on).
Dancing on the head of pin with that argument. A lot of what "angers" people is perfectly lawful behaviour by cyclists - things like having the temerity to not ride in the gutter. I don't think there is any causation to be found - it's more a case of angry intolerant people finding something to be angry about.
The only vocal anti cyclists I've met in person (work colleagues and parents of my kids' friends) are just absolute throbbing bell ends full stop. I knew they were twits before I knew they were anticyclycling. Just bitter, small minded and angry people. Cycling was just one outlet for that, now that other protected characteristics are off limits.
There's no debate to had with these folk. A swift **** off usually suffices.
A lot of what “angers” people is perfectly lawful behaviour by cyclists
Agreed. Still doesn't alter the fact there are dick cyclists just like there are dick drivers.
I would rather share the roads with dick cyclists than dick drivers.
Again you are twisting my words – I am not blaming cyclists, I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users (the OP question I was giving my opinion on).
Im not twisting your words at all, you have just so far failed to provide a simple example or reason for this claim apart from "it is simply such a straight-forward statement" - when clearly at least to me its not. But hey, if you don't want to do that, lets just both get on with our day.
Watched a guy on a bike last night; no lights, going the wrong way around a roundabout. Even I called him a dick...