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I'd rather there were neither.
I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users
Would these ‘some other road users’ have an ‘anti-motorist/anti-driver’ attitude ‘caused’ by the (for sake of argument) significant minority of motorists who drive like dicks?
However, I see hundreds of drivers a week behaving like dicks. Yet they don’t ‘cause’ me to have an ‘anti-driver’ attitude. I did see a few teenagers on mountain bikes im the streets the other night, maybe four of five, and none with lights, all in black clothing weaving in and out of parked cars, causing me to brake sharply. Where do I sign up to the ‘anti-teenager’ attitude? Or do I call them cyclists? Wild-card - if they instead were in cars behaving like that, would I sign up to the ‘anti-driver’ attitude?
Of course they do, willing to bet everyone who drives has their version of Audi or BMW drivers or judges instantly a car with lowered suspension or an aftermarket exhaust. It’s how humans categorise things, we all do it unconsciously.
I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users
But it's actually not the case. In all examples where research has been done it's consistently found that cyclists obey the road laws more than drivers, that where such things as jumping the lights etc ARE done it's usually for safety - which then leads onto other topics like the infrastructure not being up to standard for cyclists.
The attitude comes not from the fact that some cyclists ride like idiots (in much the same way that some drivers drive like idiots) but that the mainstream media can still stereotype this to be the case - you can still write little "opinion pieces" in the local rag saying that cyclists should pay road tax, get out of the way, use cycle paths, have a number plate... And occasionally you get that odious Loophole Lawyer or some Clarkson wannabe making a controversial point and the websites churn it out verbatim because they know it generates clicks of outrage, reams of comments and lots of ad revenue.
I'd argue that most drivers actually don't encounter that many cyclists on their daily drive and their opinion of them stems not from personal experience but the constant drip drip drip of anti-cycling coverage in the press.
I just assumed all the cyclist haters had really, really small penises. 🤷♂️
However, I see hundreds of drivers a week behaving like dicks. Yet they don’t ‘cause’ me to have an ‘anti-driver’ attitude.
See my 'Audi/BMW trope' comment earlier.
No more free ride for those penny-pinching, puerile, posho pillocks who can spend £1500+ British Pounds on a child’s toy, and yet expect special treatment from those of us who actually pay our way to use our roads in actual vehicles?
I actually saw this sentiment on the local Facebook page that I left. The fact that the VAT on a £1500 bike will be £300 which all goes into the pot, eluded the simpleton spouting on about it.
I actually saw this sentiment on the local Facebook page that I left. The fact that the VAT on a £1500 bike will be £300 which all goes into the pot, eluded the simpleton spouting on about it.
I dont disagree, but it will pale in comparison to the ~75% of the fuel he pours into his car on a weekly basis.
I like to ask them how much income tax they pay, and whether we should therefore prioritise road use by how rich people are.
One of my dogs really enjoys barking. When someone comes to the door, she uses it as an excuse to bark. She's not warning us of danger, or anything like that, she just likes barking, and people at the door is her opportunity to indulge this.
Some people like being nasty. Cyclists are a group that they feel that they can get away with being nasty to. When they see or hear about a cyclist, they take the opportunity to indulge themselves in their secret pleasure.
I just assumed all the cyclist haters had really, really small penises.
Not to mention the men.
Woman on horse – hot
You mean women who like horses but are not actually on a horse at the present time = hot
Woman actually on a horse = worse attitude than most car drivers and blinding levels of self importance.
I’d argue that most drivers actually don’t encounter that many cyclists on their daily drive and their opinion of them stems not from personal experience but the constant drip drip drip of anti-cycling coverage in the press.
Anecdote time.
My Petrolheaded Most Brexity Friend Forever vociferously despises cyclists (on the roads, and in general) and roundly rips the p out of me for ‘being one of them. He buys the Daily Express and gets Clarkson books for Chrimbo.
Quick profiles:
Me: I love cycling and use bikes for transport and pleasure ( efore injury stopped 90% of it) I really don’t like car-culture. I drive. I buy no newspaper.
MBBF: Loves driving. Claims he’d rather die than be disabled. He hates cyclists. (He likes MTBing on boxing day with me and SIL) He buys the Daily Express and idolises Clarkson and Farage.
We live in the same area. He claims that cyclists (and immigrants) make his driving/life a misery.
I hardly ever see another cyclist around these parts when either cycling or driving. And I look for them. It feels lonely being the only bike on the road for 99% of my cycle-journeys! Sore thumb-itis.
Last time I was late to my MBFFs house I was supposed to be helping him out with decorating and moving. On the way over I got stuck in a long rural traffic jam all along an A road between two villages.
At the temporary lights I was bored, watching the greenlighted vehicles approach me from the other direction. I watched the drivers/occupants one by one. A never ending line of similarly bored white faces, mostly single-occupant. I saw one white van with a brown-skinned bloke. Then another long line of entirely caucasian OAPs, carers, and commuters. Herefordshire mid-morning traffic.
My take-home observation (apart from the minutiae of people-watching) was ‘why are there so many bloody cars on the road???’
After 2x approx ten minute waits I finally got the green light and drove on to MMBFF’s house, to make my apologies for lateness. I also complained about car-culture, saying I’d be quicker if I’d cycled the 11 miles! Because it was 1. True and because 2. I know it winds him up.
His answer was: ‘There’re too many cars on the roads because there are too many bloody immigrants!!!’ Because 1. He believes it to be true and because 2. He knows it winds me up.
Anecdote 2
I drove him MMBFF all the way from Worcester to Coed Y Brenin, taking A roads and B roads. For a good portion of the first part of the journey we were (oh joy!) having the ‘cyclists on the road’ argument.
He claims ‘MTBing is ‘bloody great’, but that ‘cyclists on roads make driving a misery and they are in his way and they aren’t even supposed to be there, etc etc’
After 120ish miles when we finally pulled into at CyB I asked:
‘That was an easy drive, nice weather, did you count how many cyclists you saw on the road on the way here?’
‘No, wasn’t looking’
‘I was’
‘You’re going to say ‘none’ aren’t you?’
‘No, I saw one’
The Odd Couple 🥸🤪
Woman actually on a horse = worse attitude than most car drivers and blinding levels of self importance.
So here we go – it's not okay for motorists to have anti cyclist attitudes, but it's bang on for a cyclist to have an anti horse rider attitude. Herein lies the problem.
You mean women who like horses but are not actually on a horse at the present time = hot
Woman actually on a horse = worse attitude than most car drivers and blinding levels of self importance
And they don't pay road tax!
No, I meant: I'll happily sit behind a female bottom bobbing up and down for 30 seconds, but I'll be irritated by a bloke on a horse for wasting that crucial period of my life.
I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users
Thing is, this "riding like dicks" to most drivers is just someone being "in their way".
Or, like my wonderful colleague swore and ranted about once - a cyclist undertaking a stationary, queueing vehicle "not on a cycle path or anything!"
(Not that I'll be drawn into this petty squabble any further)
Woman actually on a horse = worse attitude than most car drivers and blinding levels of self importance.
I always have a nice chat with people on horses, male or female. Show them some respect and courtesy and you get the same back. Easy really.
Its classic "othering" find a group of people and proclaim them "the enemy" for their behaviours. this group then closes ranks, feels no part of society and retreats from societies norms further. Newspapers do it to sell, politicians jump on the bandwagon. Travelers got exactly this treatment.
One reason for this is resentment because we sail past them in traffic jams but in their eyes pay nothing for the use of the roads. Car drivers are sold the dream of car driving as liberating but actually it traps you into spending hours stuck in traffic. they see cyclists enjoying freedom from being held in traffic and hate the freeloading barstewards fo rit
Try Aus for anti cycling attitudes. In one state the fine for no bell is bigger than the fine for drunk driving
An acquaintance of mine who is an advanced motorcyclist and motorcyling instructed went off on a rant on facebook about cyclists holding her up deliberately when she is commuting to work across Edinburgh by car. Edinburgh is full of narrow streets where 2 cars adn a bike cannot safely pass. thinking she might because of her background be amenable to discussion I provided her with all the info about primary and secondary position, safe over taking, defensive riding etc etc and her replay was " thats all good and well but some are deliberatly holding me up"
If you’re on a bike then clearly you’re too poor to afford a car, therefore you’re an absolute pleb. Get a car, hippy!
But yet if you look at the social media spats going on regarding cycle lanes in that London, cycling is perceived as a middle class affectation.
So here we go – it’s not okay for motorists to have anti cyclist attitudes, but it’s bang on for a cyclist to have an anti horse rider attitude. Herein lies the problem.
Yes a strange comment, perhaps it's ironic. I've never had any issues with any horse riders, generally pass pleasantries.
When your life is crap its nice to have something to hate.
That more or less sums this issue up. Many people seem to live their life with a simmering state of internal rage and for some reason read the Daily Mail also :D. They are looking for someone to transfer that anger onto whether it be migrants, scroungers or now...cyclists. Plus also I feel the roads have become uglier places in recent years with a "me me me" type of person wanting to bully everyone out of the way in their SUV.
Look up "othering" Yo will find some really good articles on this. for example https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-othering-5084425
the reason this does not happen in some european states is cyclists are not others - everyone cycles or has a family member who does
Car drivers are sold the dream of car driving as liberating but actually it traps you into spending hours stuck in traffic
Yeah, driving is a miserable and stressful activity. That's an empirical fact! It sends everyone's cortisol levels up. And many of these people are wedded to their cars as extensions of their personality, like status goods or vanity baubles.
Now I'm a bit older it makes me laugh.
Woman actually on a horse = worse attitude than most car drivers and blinding levels of self importance.
Lots of horses on the TPT and >90% seem sensitive to the needs of others.
Did have one woman once shout at me for not slowing down. I can assure you that I wasn't going at any great pace and she was IMHO cantering? the horse and it was too fast. Consequently, she was dominating the (wide) section and I felt this was arrogant on her part.
People are tribal and like to moan about other people. As this thread shows cyclists are as guilty of this as any other group...
Yeah, driving is a miserable and stressful activity.
driving (even in heavy traffic) need not be stressful or miserable, depends on tour attitude really
I had someone tell me that cyclists should pay road tax, when I replied that I already pay road tax but choose to leave the car at home to reduce the amount of traffic on the roads and make his commute easier he went mental!
Lol It was a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I cant work emojis on this horrendous site.
Based on the utter mental abuse that I've had from a couple. In real life they are pretty much lovey and some are hot haha
driving (even in heavy traffic) need not be stressful or miserable, depends on tour attitude really
It's never going to be a net positive experience though is it.
Racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism etc are now all taboo,
Well, it was up until a few years ago, at least.
Deleted, misread.
I always have a nice chat with people on horses, male or female. Show them some respect and courtesy and you get the same back. Easy really.
Very much this.
You do get the occasional one who [i]expects[/i] you as a cyclist to be a cock but then rapidly adjusts their attitude when you're nice to them.
I had a conversation with a dog walker along those line a few weeks ago. Descending a gravel track, not especially fast, on the CX. Ahead of me was a woman with two dogs, she was walking along in the same direction so had her back to me. I slowed right down, called out a greeting and she did the usual dog walker thing of panicking and trying to restrain the dogs and then one ran over to me. I stopped, petted it, said hi and she was genuinely taken aback; she'd clearly had a run in with a cyclist before - she seemed the sort to post on a FB page about how she'd "nearly been run over!!" - and she was obviously expecting me to be inconsiderate / not slow down etc.
As it was, she adjusted her preconception, was polite and thanked me for my consideration and we wished each other well and carried on our respective ways.
And yes, I've generalised about dog walkers there as well, there are a great many who have zero ability to control their dogs and why oh why do they panic so much when they see as bike?!
I cant work emojis on this horrendous site.
How do you normally ‘work them’? 😉
(For that example I typed a semi-colon and open bracket, no space)
@me said
If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.
But you could make the exact same observation about pretty much anything on the road that wasn’t a car. Tractors, horses, busses, HGVs etc. But special ire seems to be reserved for cyclists.
It is pointed above (sorry, too many posts to keep track) that we don't see it from the perspective of bus drivers etc. I am certainly aware of bus driver unpopularity.
But also, there is a glaring difference between bus-drivers and lorry drivers on the one hand, and cyclists on the other. Cyclists are way more vulnerable. In an altercation with a lorry, the one thing a car driver is unlikely to be concerned about is the lorry driver's safety. With cyclists, that preys on the driver's mind greatly. They are aware of the vulnerability of the cyclist and that is the source of the extra stress they feel. I would be surprised if you have not felt it (if you drive). We are used to looking after ourselves, but being placed in a position where someone else's safety is in our hands is stressful. This is irrational in a sense, oncoming motorists, at any speed, are at just as much risk from a our bad driving, but it is there - I feel it and other drivers I talk to do also.
If you are trying to explain this phenomenon in terms of the minority of drivers who really do have it in for cyclists when on the road and drive accordingly, you are looking in the wrong place. Drivers who drive well around cyclists also resent them, precisely because they have been forced to do so by the presence on the road of of the cyclist (as they see it).
I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users
No - this is the effect of the "othering" not the cause.
We're not a cycling nation, we never have been. The closest most adults get to bikes in the UK is when they buy them for their kids and as such they're toys, not modes of transport/sport. My grandparents didn't own bikes, my parents didn't own bikes, none of the adults in my extended family own bikes. it would never occur to them that a journey to and from a place could be accomplished on a bicycle and if I brought it up in a conversation, they'd look at me like I just created fire.
Our infrastructure, driving tests and laws follow this trend in which cycles are largely an anomaly on the roads rather than a part of it.
Whilst most people see the problem of too many cars, they don't see bikes as a solution to this problem, When encountered, they're just a distraction, an anomaly, a rarity that further interferes with the operation of cars.
If we want more people to cycle, it has to be a change in both the laws, the tests, and the infrastructure, but this will take decades.
Again you are twisting my words – I am not blaming cyclists, I am blaming a significant minority of cyclists that cause the ‘Anti Cyclist’ attitude shown by some other road users (the OP question I was giving my opinion on).
At the supermarket the other day, someone bumped into me with their trolley. I conclude that all people who shop at supermarkets, other than me, are dicks.
I conclude that all people who shop at supermarkets, other than me, are dicks.
Probably fair TBH.
3 steps to being a dick on a bike:
Step 1: filtering along cycle lane to cycle box at lights (justification: what it's there for)
Step 2: knowing sequence and setting off while lights are still red (justification: to escape close passes while riding along parked cars)
Step 3: filtering along cycle lane carrying speed, all traffic stopped at lights, so take advantage and keep going (justification: errrm none).
I cant work emojis on this horrendous site.
How do you normally ‘work them’?
Assuming Windows 10, Win-[.] (the Windows key + full stop) will give you an emoji keyboard.
knowing sequence and setting off while lights are still red
It is precisely this sort of action that causes the 'Anti Cyclist' sentiment from some other road users – we should, as cyclists, assume that other road users will know the Highway Code and allow us room to set off safely rather than assume that they don't.
[strong]Cougar[/strong] wrote:
Assuming Windows 10, Win-[.] (the Windows key + full stop) will give you an emoji keyboard
MIND! BLOWN!
EDIT: 😎
Control-command-space on a Mac 😌
Control-command-space on a Mac
or tap the 'smiley' icon on the touchbar if you have a fangly MacBook Pro 👻😍🏊♀️🐠🤟😎👌😱😳💩
Assuming Windows 10, Win-[.] (the Windows key + full stop) will give you an emoji keyboard.
Come here for the bike chat.
Leave with IT expertise.
Every day is a school day here 😄
It is precisely this sort of action that causes the ‘Anti Cyclist’ sentiment from some other road users – we should, as cyclists, assume that other road users will know the Highway Code and allow us room to set off safely rather than assume that they don’t.
Really? In an ideal world we would all know the highway code (I know I don't know it all) and drives and bikes would live in harmony. But when im on my bike I assume the worst I take road position early at junctions, ride in the primary position by default, assume cars won't see me, and assume pedestrians will just walk into the road. I honestly couldn't care less if I hold a car up for 30 seconds if I think it's stopped me from getting hit. Maybe years of london cycling have left me jaded. I hate cars.
Is it class? Do people in cars feel they are superior to lowly cyclists?
More like jealousy I suspect. The average cyclist is probably better paid, and better educated, than the average motorist.