Forum menu
IMHO think yourselves lucky its a pay freeze, Opticians haven't had a rais in the NHS test fee for more than 5 years and have just been told they wont be getting one this year!
I work at manchester airport and we've just been told we are getting a 10% pay cut for the next twelve months!!
Pay freeze........I'd love one !!
Gobuchal – it takes in a million+ a year more than it pays out. Figures easily available
Doesn't mean a thing as the pension fund has long term liabilities, probably in the billions over the next 60 years, so the cash flow in one year is a meaningless metric.
if you retire after 40 years as a nurse, on a career average of £35k, your pension is £26k. To achieve that with a defined contribution scheme would currently require a pot of just under a million quid, which is damn close the absolute limit of what you can have in a pension before it gets taxed to the point of being worthless. Oddly, the limit for a defined benefit pension is approx double that, so workers on modern schemes are getting screwed both ways
Nice of MPs (on final salary pensions) to make sure their lifetime allowance was twice that of those on Defined Contribution pensions!
However, it does grate that we keep having all these fantastic benefits and conditions used against us by people who for some reason aren’t prepared to come and enjoy it for themselves.
Well said.
I’m surprised that nobody has picked up on the fact that not only are us public service workers keeping the country running, with the furlough scheme in place WE PAY YOUR WAGES!!!*
* see how you like it now, eh?**
** do I need to put a smiley face here for the hard of thinking ? 🤣
it does grate that we keep having all these fantastic benefits and conditions used against us by people who for some reason aren’t prepared to come and enjoy it for themselves.
Same in teaching, every day I get a load of job adverts emailed to me, plenty of room on this gravy train!
A pay cut/freeze will be supported by Sir Keir. Solidarity with the landlords!
WE PAY YOUR WAGES!!!
Except you don’t, but dont worry because public sector pay will soon be repaying the COVID-19 balance sheet off just as much private sector, so there will be parity in that.
The galling thing I find about public sector pay is that there’s NEVER an appropriate time to increase it. I distinctly recall during the early 2000s boom years calls for public sector pay to be restrained because of concerns of the inflationary effect it would have on the economy!
We can’t pay a decent wage in the best of times, we can’t pay one in the bad times and now we can’t pay one in the worst of times, even when the contribution is at its most visible and obvious to all...
No public sector furloughing? I'm aware of at least 2000 furloughed public sector staff.
Oh, I'm private sector and on 17.5% wage reduction whilst working full time with unpaid overtime an expectation.
The problem with giving public sector pay rises is that it has been lumped together into massive chunks so that any changes cost a fortune and make for headlines.
I don't really like the "we've got it tough so you should to" approach as it just feeds into the hands of those who want to make cuts and sell things off. That said if many companies are owned by pension funds and mine is anything to go by everyone has take a massive hit (20% - haven't checked in a while?) this will put pressure on the boards to recoup some value in the private sector.
If I was in a negotiation, say, as a union rep, I wouldn't be looking for a pay rise as it would be easy to justify not giving it. I would be looking at other benefits and improved conditions that don't hit the accounts so obviously. Also as my well paid doctor friends have said - some people in the NHS are doing fine - they have well paid secure jobs (when unemployment is in double digits right now?) when many don't. A more targeted approach may be needed.
The MPs managed to find themselves an extra £200pw exes for working from home on top of their £74k wage plus c£180k expenses plus a free home and they can get to be called 'Sir'. Junior doctors get £30k. The NHS has had a pay freeze (cut) since 2010 and looks like more years of this. Keir will go along with it. Meanwhile more will be outsourced. Rent debt will destroy many people. Maybe Boris gets replaced (doesn't matter which party) but no change. Shock doctrine, innit.
** do I need to put a smiley face here for the hard of thinking ? 🤣
Seriously, this was here for a reason.
Guess what, you never paid my wages either... never stopped people saying it mind...
I just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition for the private sector ranters 😜😁
That said if many companies are owned by pension funds and mine is anything to go by everyone has take a massive hit (20% – haven’t checked in a while?) this will put pressure on the boards to recoup some value in the private sector.
Was probably over 20% hit a few weeks back, but I did check mine at the WE and only down about 9% at the moment. Mind you, no one has priced in the real cost of the coming depression....
Meh, the Uk along with most of other global economy's are going to suffer. A pay freeze was to be expected. No Cash, but there you go. It is what it is.
Maybe the unions/staff organisations should look at an increase in Annual leave instead of pay?
This seems one of those "considering" headline grabbing things we've enjoyed so much since this crisis started and in every other crisis before.
The Treasury thinks it'll need to find £300bn for Coronavirus, I'm sure it's considering a lot of things, it was considering reducing Furlough payments to 65%, it was considering stopping it entirely in June.
I suspect the bad news will be spread around, we'll borrow more, we'll print more, we're shuffle the tax rules around again to make it seem like they're not increasing tax, and yes they're probably wind back promised pay rises, they usually give with one hand and take away with the other - I'm sure there will be something like a £500 Bonus for every Emergency Service worker, and at the same time a cut or freeze that will cost us 4x as much, but everyone loves a cheeky £500 don't they?
The bill for this shitstorm will be massive.
Yes, the headline grabbing figure is £300bn, but the headline grabbing figure for the Bank Crisis was £1.2tn, it didn't come to that in the end.
It's bad, but it's not the 'end of days' and it's not on the scale of the Credit Crunch.
We're all just puppets in this.
The Gov wanted the virus to be as scary as possible, because it made enforcing lock-down easier, this was the right thing to do. The Media wanted it as scary as possible because it drives interest.
Now we're over the hump and cautiously moving towards normality (or a new normal) they need new scary stories to keep it up.
2020 is going to be a rough ride, but we've had worse.
Plenty of teaching jobs landing in my inbox even now so anyone wants to climb aboard the public sector gravy train is welcome.
The public/private thing needs to stop. Ultimately we are all payed by Employers, who gains their revenue through revenue driven activity whether that customer revenues, tax revenue etc. If you have problem with pay and pension, act on it. Simple as.
The real thing to suffer may be the state pension age. I suspect that this situation will be the excuse to shove it further back again, that's if there is a state pension at all when I eventually get to the ever further away date some time in the 2040's!!
It's a scary time but it appears that the politics are suddenly being played out publicly...
I said to my wife when this started that certain parties will play politics with this and this is now happening. She said I was mad. Sad times.
Stay safe folks, and hold on for a bumpy ride...
Plenty of teaching jobs landing in my inbox even now so anyone wants to climb aboard the public sector gravy train is welcome.
Plenty of work outside the public sector too.
"If you don't like it, leave" is an oft quoted saying at our place.
God knows why anyone wants to be a teacher for any amount of money. Kids are bloody horrible! 😀
The one time the public sector really can’t complain is now, in general terms. No furghlurning, no pay cut, no redundancies.
And that cushy death in service bonus, wonder what they'll be spunking that on, the bastards.
The public/private thing needs to stop.
But they are different. If a government wants to stimulate the economy it can do that by putting more money into the public sector during a recession (or better yet before we fully realise we're in it, like now). That can reduce the depth and duration of the recession, which is good for everyone. E.g. if a hospital has money to upgrade a building or buy new equipment they're not going to get it from themselves, the money will go to a private sector organisation to do the work/supply the goods. Which is great if you're a building firm and nobody is buying houses!
the money will go to a private sector organisation to do the work/supply the goods.
What's even better is 30% or so of that comes back to HMG as PAYE, VAT etc. Plus you get gearing / multiplier effect where you generate a bigger boost in GDP than the money invested. Infrastructure has one of the best short term returns..
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49894181426_e7c9a251e8_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49894181426_e7c9a251e8_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2j1YHRm ]Fiscal multipliers[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/tnm/2014/tnm1404.pdf
Plenty of work outside the public sector too.
“If you don’t like it, leave” is an oft quoted saying at our place.
I dont want to, I like my job. Although the chronic shortage of teachers in many subjects is caused by people leaving, but increasing pay or improving conditions is never thought of to attract/retain new teachers!!
Don't worry a_a, you'll be sure to get an HR presentation involving the standard hierarchy of needs graphic, categorically proving that people aren't motivated by a pay increase. Every ****ing time I see that thing, I'm reminded of my favourite Daily Mash article:
"Price of gas set to rise", say men who set the price of gas.
No surprise there
I'd have happily have been furloughed on 80 percent salary than have to go through what I have and still are going through having caught covid at work if I'm honest
Everyone I’ve talked to in private sector who might still have a job has had some kind of pay freeze, cut, alteration etc, don’t think you’re entitled to have such a problem alone.
This.
Out of my 4 nearest neighbours 1 is being made redundant & 3 of us are expecting it before winter. Pensioners are going to take a hit too.
This is a golden time to be employed by the state.
It is as long as you dont mind getting covid, and you forget the fact you have been shafted for the last ten years and had your pension agreement thrown away all before this virus , then yes its golden
This is worth repeating:
However, it does grate that we keep having all these fantastic benefits and conditions used against us by people who for some reason aren’t prepared to come and enjoy it for themselves.
There are 40'000 nurse vacancies at present...
I thought Tories wanted to level everybody up, not drag everyone else down?
Notable that the majority of those on this thread slagging off the public sector (no matter how politely) are those who have done exactly the same on here for years.
How long before we have another thread telling us that all teachers are lazy and/or that the NHS is a waste of honest public sector worker's taxes?
I'll give it a month.
Crikey my wife has just started back with the NHS we must be gluten for punishment, she caught covid from me too after I got it at work doh...
How long before we have another thread telling us that all teachers are lazy
We are, thats why the schools are closed!!
crickey - apparently tho unlike in the private sector we do not need a pay rise to get the best staff in the NHS or to fill vacancies
Indeed.
I'm desperately trying to think of a joke about 'gluten for punishment' but it's just not working; help a brother out here!
you have been shafted for the last ten years and had your pension agreement thrown away all before this virus , then yes its golden
Snap. the private sector are hardly rolling around in our annual payrises and guaranteed pensions! in 25 years of my working life I've never had a pay rise...all my salary growth has come from career progression. And I know for a fact from friends who work in public sector (mainly teachers and NHS workers ranging from nurses to doctors) as you progress up the career ladder the rewards can easily outstrip those in the private sector.
I guess if people are constantly telling you you're being shafted and those in the private sector are being rewarded with big fat pay rises and benefits, you eventually believe it. But it just aint true I'm afraid.
Notable that the majority of those on this thread slagging off the public sector (no matter how politely) are those who have done exactly the same on here for years.
The same of those who constantly slag off the private sector usually with utter contempt with no attempt at politeness. You're in no better position to judge. Depends which side of the line you're coming from. The grass sometimes seems greener on the other side but often isn't. The myth of the hard done by public sector is a very outdated line. Just aint true. I know what the typical package of a public sector worker peer to me is and there is no way they're being shafted. Packages are easily comparable if not 10% - 15% better. But of course they believe they're hard done by because that's what they're constantly told.
as you progress up the career ladder the rewards can easily outstrip those in the private sector.
Nonsense. Public sector workers even after taking into account the good terms and conditions are way way behind private sector on any comnparator.
Take me, Hugely experienced hands on staff nurse. Been at the top of the scale for years. Two professional qualifications one gained at my own expense. I support a lot of staff less experienced than me including junior doctors. I take decisions that affect peoples lives. I hold their hand when they are dying. Its a huge responsibility. £32000 gross pa.
Edit - or take my senior charge nurse. 24/7/365 responsibility for a ward. ( yes she is responsible for what happens there even when on holiday.) Highly skilled. 2 degrees. £35000 pa. ( approx.) for a level of responsibility almost no one in the private sector has any idea what its like. 48 hrs unpaid overtime this month
https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi
Fill yer boots all those who want the joy of PS working.
When I first became a team manager in the private sector in 1994, I started on the bottom of the pay scale at £16k. Decent perks like free canteen and parking, final salary pension, flexitime, 25 days leave.
A couple of redundancies and relocations later, in 2003 I started as a team manager in the public sector at the bottom of the pay scale at £16k. Parking and packed lunches took a fiver of that a day (started 16 miles a day cycle commuting!), 25 days leave, flexitime, no final salary pension.
Reckon we are still 9-10 years behind in salary. Our admin are still on minimum wage, which I think sucks as a position for the government to take.
in 25 years of my working life I’ve never had a pay rise…all my salary growth has come from career progression
Where are you working to never get a payrise? I've held several jobs at different private sector companies over the last decade and got yearly rises. For the last few years they might not have beaten inflation, but still an increase.
The problem is when the public want numerous services to be provided teaching, policing & health for example. What they don't want is having to pay for it and the expectation seems to be that these jobs should be lower paid than private sector jobs. Why? These jobs may not create what some see as traditional wealth into the economy but they add so much more to the social, emotional and mental wealth of society.
There seems to be a constant public sector is bad and adds nothing to society mantra from some areas of the political spectrum and media. It says a lot about our society that this is how we seem to think.
Private sector jobs constantly seem to complain about public sector 'golden' pensions, public sector is lazy, bloated etc. but still want the service.
I think it is also worth noting that many of the lowest paid in the public services are not even public sector workers as many of these jobs have been outsourced to private companies who pay the least they can get away with. Our bins are now an outsourced vendor and the service is notable worse than when it was council run.
What I find wrong is private companies not paying enough so their employees have to claim additional benefits to be able to get by so the state effectively subsidies these companies who still pay out large dividends to shareholders.
What we really need to do is start seeing the benefits of both private and public sectors both working on improving pay and conditions for all.
The public / private comparisons are a bit duff, there is no single public / private employment model. Sure if you're a consultant for Cap Gemeni, you have a pretty cushy package, but if you're a zero hours employee in one of Mile Ashley's warehouses outsourced to a slave labour company, the public sector probably looks pretty rosy...
What I find wrong is private companies not paying enough so their employees have to claim additional benefits
I'm more concerned that the government still pays so low that it's own staff have to rely on benefits, which they may themselves be helping administer!
Just looking at salary doesn't give you the whole picture with public vs private sector (I have worked in both).
The public sector has much better benefits in terms of sick leave, annual leave, pensions etc. Where I work we have an excellent training budget and are expected to use it. Flexible working and family friendly policies. And you pretty much have shoot somebody to get sacked (twice, cos the first shot could have been an accident) which means you have to work with numpties but they are slowly getting eradicated.
And you just meet nicer people in the public sector I have found, and the workplace demographic is more balanced (yes I know, huge generalisation) - also, you don't have to be such a giant male chicken to get promoted to senior levels.
public sector is lazy, bloated etc
my customer base is 80% local government and I would say that’s very rare if not almost non existent these days.
Also re Cap Gemini etc - I knew someone that worked at PWC once who enticed me to an interview. Yep I could earn £100k at the age of 27 - assuming I was very good at my job and willing to Work 80hr weeks. The culling policy at that level was brutal, and such was the alleged Kudos there were people lining up to take your job. No thanks.