[Closed] An intelligent footballer

Just asked six black people at work if the found it offensive and all of them said NO it’s fancy dress. They all found it quite funny.

Interesting (if true). And what do you conclude from that? That black people have varying opinions on this? Does that make it okay to black-up? Some white people think it's funny to dress up as a Nazi for fancy dress. Other white people are shocked by this.

Perhaps you would like to comment on my previous question:

could you 'black-up' for a works fancy dress party and not expect to get sacked?

Is it only whit people who can’t black up.?

What if I was Chinese or Indian or mixed race?

Unlike the grid girls thread, i'm going to come down on the PC side this time. I'm sure not all black folks find it offensive, but even if some do, thats enough for me.

As for the thread title, it beggers belief that, whether they agree its inapropriate or not, a high profile individual would post that pic. How stupid can they be.

Is it only whit people who can’t black up.?

What if I was Chinese or Indian or mixed race?

No difference imo. Why would it be? Not sure I get why people are so affronted at being told that blacking up is offensive. Do you think it is your right to be able to do so because you don’t understand why it is offensive to some black people?

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.

Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

*checks date* No I'm right, it is 2017 not 1920.

People that think blacking up is okay are either an imbecile, a racist or both.

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.

Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

The interesting thing here is that Griezmann will have had lots of interaction with black teammates...

Who probably didn't give a toss. Generally, the only people who make a big deal about stuff like this are white middle-class people on facebook all playing the 'I'm more offended than you' game.

I'm not entirely sure on this.

I mean, if you're going to fancy dress as a famous person, having the correct skin colour to most accurately portray that person doesn't seem unreasonable.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

Then again, maybe they would be happy dressing up as the character minus the blacking up part, or maybe they wouldn't even think about the blacking up part in the first place. I don't know, don't have kids.

I hate fancy dress parties, so this is purely hypothetical, but would it be acceptable for me and my friends to go to fancy dress as one of those South American pan pipe groups?
How about going as Mexicans ?
Chinese ?
Indians ?

How about Ben Kinsglsey’s portrayal of Ghandi ?
Or the fast show’s portrayal of said Inca bands ?

I’m just interested to see where the line between OK and unacceptable is.

Why didn’t he go as one of the white Harlem Globetrotters and save everyone the angst?

Tropic Thunder?

Who probably didn't give a toss. Generally, the only people who make a big deal about stuff like this are white middle-class people on facebook all playing the 'I'm more offended than you' game.

I'm not offended by it personally. I can understand why some black people might be, and that's good enough reason for me for it to be socially unacceptable. Do you think this is an issue that was originated by white middle-class people? Really?

Not sure I get why people are so affronted at being told that blacking up is offensive. Do you think it is your right to be able to do so because you don’t understand why it is offensive to some black people?

Tropic Thunder?

What do you mean 'you people'?

Oh, and it's nice to see that some of the usual casual racists, as predicted on page one, have turned up to contribute 🙄

I'm not convinced that a blanket ban on blacking up is the answer.
This is one of my favourite vids.

And what about

Before anyone takes that seriously, ask yourself which race is papa lazarou imitating?

Which race is papa lazarou imitating?

Haitian. You massive, massive power-racist.

You’re just tetchy as she is my wife now, Dave.
What’s a power racist?

Dunno, just made it up.

Like a skinhead hitler.

You should know, I guess 😆

I don’t think that moustache with a skinhead would be a good look

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.
Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

This seems a sensible view to me. The key maybe is "are you doing this respectfully?" I know cosplayers who spend thousands of pounds and countless hours recreating the look of their favourite characters; darkening or indeed lightening their skin tones for authenticity seems reasonable in the same way as growing a beard or shaving hair might be.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

There will always be someone who takes offence. The question rather might be, is that a justified reaction?

For the record, I think the guy in the OP is a dick and his get-up was totally unnecessary. Racist perhaps not, offensive almost certainly so, simply because there was no reason for him to do that beyond reinforcing a stereotype.

Though I'm also conscious, I'm a white guy so I'm probably not in the best position to judge.

Don't worry no more German whips after Brexit.

So I can only assume that when we made our pal who’s of Cypriot decent dress up as Pat Butcher on his stag do we was being racist or sexist or some kind of ist

Don't assume, think.

the only time some people seem to think is looking for the exception to the rules (of anything from law to civilised society) in this example if your hard of thinking or just don't understand file this one with gravity, sure as dropping something heavy on your foot will hurt painting yourself to look black will get you into trouble.

The explanation was up there on page 1, you can muck around and be a minority for an evening and then wash it off going back to your life as it is. Other people face daily racially motivated thinking from simply the colour of their skin.

Whos the racist..

Someone who appreciates the skill and talent of a fellow sporting professional and dresses up as them..

Or white people on the internet continuing to label people by the colour of their skin and assuming they know whats best for those of a different skin colour.

I don't believe for a minute that not understanding what's wrong about "blacking-up" makes someone a racist, but it is pretty ignorant. A good opportunity though to go and do some reading up about how the practice of blacking-up came into being and how closely it's connected to slavery, white supremacy and systematic suppression of black people, particularly in the US. It was rooted in the reinforcement of ridiculous racial stereotyping and designed to illustrate the superiority of white people over black people. It's not a very clever thing for anyone to do, whether they intend offence or not, let alone a high profile sportsman who then shares it with the World on social media.

Some pretty worrying themes coming out of this discussion though:
- it's not ok to defend racist behaviour by reference to black friends being ok with it. See Series 2, Episode 1'of The Office and the scene with the bread bin "joke"
- it's not just "being PC" to call out racial discrimination
- white people are allowed to be offended by racism without them being guilty of "thinking they know what's best for black people" (particularly bizarre comment that one)
- it may "not be as bad as Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi" - who knows - but that's not really a relevant test. Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Those Bacup Morris dancers? How do they fit into the blacking up story then?

curto80 - Member

I don't believe for a minute that not understanding what's wrong about "blacking-up" makes someone a racist, but it is pretty ignorant. A good opportunity though to go and do some reading up about how the practice of blacking-up came into being and how closely it's connected to slavery, white supremacy and systematic suppression of black people, particularly in the US. It was rooted in the reinforcement of ridiculous racial stereotyping and designed to illustrate the superiority of white people over black people. It's not a very clever thing for anyone to do, whether they intend offence or not, let alone a high profile sportsman who then shares it with the World on social media.

Some pretty worrying themes coming out of this discussion though:
- it's not ok to defend racist behaviour by reference to black friends being ok with it. See Series 2, Episode 1'of The Office and the scene with the bread bin "joke"
- it's not just "being PC" to call out racial discrimination
- white people are allowed to be offended by racism without them being guilty of "thinking they know what's best for black people" (particularly bizarre comment that one)
- it may "not be as bad as Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi" - who knows - but that's not really a relevant test. Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Very well put, with a level of patience for ignorance that I don't have. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone on this thread who doesn't understand the issue will do as you advise and try and learn more.

Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Agree totally. Not to defend his actions, but this happened in Spain which is light years behind the UK in terms of racial sensitivity*. Go to any [i]Carnaval[/i] celebration in February and you'll see a lot of kids and adults in blackface. For me it's shocking, and when I mention this to people, it's me that's the weirdo. There is a lot of (what I would call) casual racism in Spain, but on the other hand, people in Spain are seemingly less worried about being a victim of hate crime than in [url= http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Fear-of-crime/Violent-hate-crime ]most countries[/url].

[img] [/img]

a timely cartoon from the Grauniad

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/19/david-squires-on-manchester-city-football-utopia

People of colour is not a term I would use when talking about black people, simply because of growing up in the 70s and 8os in wembley, that was very multi cultural, my friends would not stand for being called coloured. I’m black not coloured, I’m not purple I’m black. They told me. So I call black people black, so I am reluctant to use the term people of colour unless I was talking about
The entire non white community.

And I'd agree with you on that single point chip.

Were you going anywhere with it though?

No it’s based on the use of it in the cartoon. And ihn first post on the first page telling me it’s the preferred terminology.

Righto, I think Bendydick Cummerbund had a Twitterstorm for calling someone "coloured" this year.

"Black" for afro-carribean individuals and [i]I think[/i] "BME" or "BAME" for collective minorities.

I think Bendydick Cummerbund had a Twitterstorm for calling someone "coloured" this year.

He did, I seem to remember he said he should have said people of colour, which is the "preferred" term

Very well put

+1.

Twitterstorm for calling someone "coloured" this year.

I do get frustrated when people get in bother when they're actually trying to use the "correct" terminology.

I once saw a Malaysian lass have a right paddy over someone referring to "coloured people." Her preferred term was "people of colour." They're the same words in a different order FFS!

Everyone is of one colour or another. The term people of colour is ridiculous as it applies to everyone.

I do get frustrated when people get in bother when they're actually trying to use the "correct" terminology.

I still think Twitter is essentially just a great big clever dick contest.

have a right paddy

Racist!

[i]An intelligent footballer[/i]

Oxymoron?