[Closed] An intelligent footballer

Can anyone .explain to me why if you are dressing as a person for a party and they are black you can't black yourself up?

Yours.

Outraged of The Internet.

Mackem +1

He's not that intelligent. That's a basketball.

does this mean those bodybuilder competitions are racist too?

Mackem - Member
Can anyone .explain to me why if you are dressing as a person for a party and they are black you can't black yourself up?

Can anyone .explain to me why if you are dressing as a person for a party and they are black you can't black yourself up?

Because people who are black (or 'of colour' if we want to use the accepted phrase) face huge amounts of prejudice, maltreatment and discrimination because of the skin colour they have that they did not choose. Choosing to adopt that skin colour 'for a laugh', before taking it off again to continue enjoy the privilege that comes with being white (not to say male and wealthy in this case) is seen as distasteful.

There's plenty of other people he could have chosen to dress up as that wouldn't have needed him to black himself up.

There's plenty of other people he could have chosen to dress up as that wouldn't have needed him to black himself up.

like micheal jackson 😉

ooh, you are awful.

i prefer bad.

There's plenty of other people he could have chosen to dress up as that wouldn't have needed him to black himself up.

Mackem - Member

Can anyone .explain to me why if you are dressing as a person for a party and they are black you can't black yourself up?

ITV4 usually shows 1970's comedy shows (e.g. On the buses) on weekday afternoons, if you are keen on living in the past.

Cup-tea-storm-in 🙄

If I am going to be outraged and angry then there are plenty of serious issues like homelessness, tax evasion, underfunding of the NHS etc that give me more reason. I really cannot get excited about a footballer in questionable fancy dress.

i prefer bad.

I’ve had enough of you, just beat it will you.

I mean, it's not quite in the same ball park as a member of the Royal Family dressing up as a Nazi is it.

Or as a darts fan dressing as Dianne Abbott

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/darts-diane-abbott-tweet-blackface-alexandra-palace-pdc-world-championship-labour-a8114276.html

If I am going to be outraged and angry then there are plenty of serious issues like homelessness, tax evasion, underfunding of the NHS etc that give me more reason. I really cannot get excited about a footballer in questionable fancy dress.

Not to mention climate change, overpopulation, global wealth inequality, etc. To be honest, there are so many problems in the world, I think we can all allow a little bit of casual racism to go without having to kick up a fuss about it.

probably go to hell for this, but:

[img] [/img]

I vociferously condemn it, but the 190 is too good to go unnoticed.

[quote=deadlydarcy]
Not to mention climate change, overpopulation, global wealth inequality, etc. To be honest, there are so many problems in the world, I think we can all allow a little bit of casual racism to go without having to kick up a fuss about it.

maybe we should Heal the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me
And the entire human race

Blacking up = not cool.

Blacking up = not cool.

This is of course because the black will absorb more heat and reflect less away

What we need to realise, is it doesn't matter if your black or white.

Mackem - Member
Can anyone .explain to me why if you are dressing as a person for a party and they are black you can't black yourself up?

Because in the 70s (and probably later) a lot of white people thought it was pretty funny to make themselves up in way to look like a really exaggerated version of Black people and act the arse at their expense - of course "it was only a laugh" but I doubt I would have seen the funny side if I was on the other side of the fence.

I think it's part of recently history most people would like to forget and it's just one of those things you don't do because the reward is tiny and the risk huge.

Right or wrong, and even with innocent intentions, is it hard to be unaware that this is seen as racially insensitive in modern society. Not understanding why it is wrong (like the people above), doesn't make it okay. I expect the usual ignorant racists will be here to have there say any minute....

The interesting thing here is that Griezmann will have had lots of interaction with black teammates, and probably lots of advice and media training to avoid this sort of thing, but that seems to have gone over his head. I imagine (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the people above who don't understand the issue here, don't live in multicultural areas or interact with black people. Griezmann shouldn't have ignorance as an excuse.

Is it ok the other way round though ? Like the film white chicks. No fuss was made over that.

What we need to realise, is it doesn't matter if your black or white.

Only if you're thinking about my baby, which is a whole difference set of issues we need to be mindful of.

Is it ok the other way round though ? Like the film white chicks. No fuss was made over that.

white people haven't been the victims of centuries of oppression / whiteface isn't a thing in the same way as blackface.

Is it ok the other way round though ? Like the film white chicks. No fuss was made over that.

Because it was best left quietly forgotten, if not because of the racial issues, then because it was godawful.

Is it ok the other way round though ? Like the film white chicks. No fuss was made over that.

While different (comparing privileged people with historically abused people), I'd say it's not okay. That film was made in 2004, doubt it would get made today.

It wasn't funny either.

Have to admit I chuckled at the Diane Abbot fancy dress, despite the wrongness.

It looks more like Avid Merrion dressing up as Austin Powers dressing up as Diane Abbott, TBF.

I blacked up (a bit) when I went to a party as Jimi Hendrix (it was a dead people party). And I've got nothing against them darkies neither.

I do remember a bit of a fuss over 'White Chicks' actually, but it was a terrible, terrible film so not many people had to suffer it.

It's no 'I'm gonna git you sucka' anyway.

that seems to have gone over his head.

Probably wouldn't make a very good basketball player then.

Cougar - Moderator

that seems to have gone over his head.

Probably wouldn't make a very good basketball player then.

Pithy, and not particularly funny, as per usual. 8)

To be fair, I think he is concentrating on his football career for the time being. 😮

[i]Pithy, and not particularly funny, as per usual. [/i]

Meeeoaw!

I have to say that I don't get the furore.. None of the photo's show 'blacking up' in the black and white minstrels sense. I can understand the historical issues with the minstrels, however to suggest that you can't 'be' someone as a fancy dress costume because 60years ago it was done to demean people seems a little tenuous. At some point or other all races have opressed, attacked, waged war on others. It just seems that we've all settled on the white folks being the baddies..

Meeeoaw!

😉

I have to say that I don't get the furore.. None of the photo's show 'blacking up' in the black and white minstrels sense. I can understand the historical issues with the minstrels, however to suggest that you can't 'be' someone as a fancy dress costume because 60years ago it was done to demean people seems a little tenuous. At some point or other all races have opressed, attacked, waged war on others. It just seems that we've all settled on the white folks being the baddies..

Looks like we have another poor basketball player

I can understand the historical issues with the minstrels, however to suggest that you can't 'be' someone as a fancy dress costume because 60years ago it was done to demean people seems a little tenuous.

Bit more recent than 60 years ago! Anyway, it's not as if racism has magically gone away.

I have to say that I don't get the furore.

Well, it's...

Because people who are black (or 'of colour' if we want to use the accepted phrase) face huge amounts of prejudice, maltreatment and discrimination because of the skin colour they have that they did not choose. Choosing to adopt that skin colour 'for a laugh', before taking it off again to continue enjoy the privilege that comes with being white (not to say male and wealthy in this case) is seen as distasteful.

There's plenty of other people he could have chosen to dress up as that wouldn't have needed him to black himself up.

I have to say that I don't get the furore.

You don't [i]have[/i] to say it actually.

You could keep schtum and respect the feelings of black people who find it offensive.

chakaping - Member

I have to say that I don't get the furore.

You don't have to say it actually.

You could keep schtum and respect the feelings of black people who find it offensive.

This. Not being black I can't directly empathise, but if black people say it's offensive (and I can understand why it might be) that's enough for me to respect that.

To those that 'don't understand why it is an issue', could you 'black-up' for a works fancy dress party and not expect to get sacked? I know I couldn't (not that I'd do it in the first place)...

Just asked six black people at work if the found it offensive and all of them said NO it’s fancy dress. They all found it quite funny.

Just asked six black people at work if the found it offensive and all of them said NO it’s fancy dress. They all found it quite funny.

Interesting (if true). And what do you conclude from that? That black people have varying opinions on this? Does that make it okay to black-up? Some white people think it's funny to dress up as a Nazi for fancy dress. Other white people are shocked by this.

Perhaps you would like to comment on my previous question:

could you 'black-up' for a works fancy dress party and not expect to get sacked?

Is it only whit people who can’t black up.?

What if I was Chinese or Indian or mixed race?

Unlike the grid girls thread, i'm going to come down on the PC side this time. I'm sure not all black folks find it offensive, but even if some do, thats enough for me.

As for the thread title, it beggers belief that, whether they agree its inapropriate or not, a high profile individual would post that pic. How stupid can they be.

Is it only whit people who can’t black up.?

What if I was Chinese or Indian or mixed race?

No difference imo. Why would it be? Not sure I get why people are so affronted at being told that blacking up is offensive. Do you think it is your right to be able to do so because you don’t understand why it is offensive to some black people?

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.

Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

*checks date* No I'm right, it is 2017 not 1920.

People that think blacking up is okay are either an imbecile, a racist or both.

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.

Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

The interesting thing here is that Griezmann will have had lots of interaction with black teammates...

Who probably didn't give a toss. Generally, the only people who make a big deal about stuff like this are white middle-class people on facebook all playing the 'I'm more offended than you' game.

I'm not entirely sure on this.

I mean, if you're going to fancy dress as a famous person, having the correct skin colour to most accurately portray that person doesn't seem unreasonable.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

Then again, maybe they would be happy dressing up as the character minus the blacking up part, or maybe they wouldn't even think about the blacking up part in the first place. I don't know, don't have kids.

I hate fancy dress parties, so this is purely hypothetical, but would it be acceptable for me and my friends to go to fancy dress as one of those South American pan pipe groups?
How about going as Mexicans ?
Chinese ?
Indians ?

How about Ben Kinsglsey’s portrayal of Ghandi ?
Or the fast show’s portrayal of said Inca bands ?

I’m just interested to see where the line between OK and unacceptable is.

Why didn’t he go as one of the white Harlem Globetrotters and save everyone the angst?

Tropic Thunder?

Who probably didn't give a toss. Generally, the only people who make a big deal about stuff like this are white middle-class people on facebook all playing the 'I'm more offended than you' game.

I'm not offended by it personally. I can understand why some black people might be, and that's good enough reason for me for it to be socially unacceptable. Do you think this is an issue that was originated by white middle-class people? Really?

Not sure I get why people are so affronted at being told that blacking up is offensive. Do you think it is your right to be able to do so because you don’t understand why it is offensive to some black people?

Tropic Thunder?

What do you mean 'you people'?

Oh, and it's nice to see that some of the usual casual racists, as predicted on page one, have turned up to contribute 🙄

I'm not convinced that a blanket ban on blacking up is the answer.
This is one of my favourite vids.

And what about

Before anyone takes that seriously, ask yourself which race is papa lazarou imitating?

Which race is papa lazarou imitating?

Haitian. You massive, massive power-racist.

You’re just tetchy as she is my wife now, Dave.
What’s a power racist?

Dunno, just made it up.

Like a skinhead hitler.

You should know, I guess 😆

I don’t think that moustache with a skinhead would be a good look

I think dressing up as a 'black person' in the generic sense isn't ok however if you are dressing up as an individual it should be ok as long as you are not doing it to exaggerate stereotypes.
Ie dressing up as Mr T would be ok, dressing up as Mr T with big painted on lips and eating watermelon wouldn't be ok.

This seems a sensible view to me. The key maybe is "are you doing this respectfully?" I know cosplayers who spend thousands of pounds and countless hours recreating the look of their favourite characters; darkening or indeed lightening their skin tones for authenticity seems reasonable in the same way as growing a beard or shaving hair might be.

I get what you are saying, but even if you aren't meaning offence, I'm sure someone would take it that way. Given there are million differnt options, id question the motives of anyone that chose that one.

There will always be someone who takes offence. The question rather might be, is that a justified reaction?

For the record, I think the guy in the OP is a dick and his get-up was totally unnecessary. Racist perhaps not, offensive almost certainly so, simply because there was no reason for him to do that beyond reinforcing a stereotype.

Though I'm also conscious, I'm a white guy so I'm probably not in the best position to judge.

Don't worry no more German whips after Brexit.

So I can only assume that when we made our pal who’s of Cypriot decent dress up as Pat Butcher on his stag do we was being racist or sexist or some kind of ist

Don't assume, think.

the only time some people seem to think is looking for the exception to the rules (of anything from law to civilised society) in this example if your hard of thinking or just don't understand file this one with gravity, sure as dropping something heavy on your foot will hurt painting yourself to look black will get you into trouble.

The explanation was up there on page 1, you can muck around and be a minority for an evening and then wash it off going back to your life as it is. Other people face daily racially motivated thinking from simply the colour of their skin.

Whos the racist..

Someone who appreciates the skill and talent of a fellow sporting professional and dresses up as them..

Or white people on the internet continuing to label people by the colour of their skin and assuming they know whats best for those of a different skin colour.

I don't believe for a minute that not understanding what's wrong about "blacking-up" makes someone a racist, but it is pretty ignorant. A good opportunity though to go and do some reading up about how the practice of blacking-up came into being and how closely it's connected to slavery, white supremacy and systematic suppression of black people, particularly in the US. It was rooted in the reinforcement of ridiculous racial stereotyping and designed to illustrate the superiority of white people over black people. It's not a very clever thing for anyone to do, whether they intend offence or not, let alone a high profile sportsman who then shares it with the World on social media.

Some pretty worrying themes coming out of this discussion though:
- it's not ok to defend racist behaviour by reference to black friends being ok with it. See Series 2, Episode 1'of The Office and the scene with the bread bin "joke"
- it's not just "being PC" to call out racial discrimination
- white people are allowed to be offended by racism without them being guilty of "thinking they know what's best for black people" (particularly bizarre comment that one)
- it may "not be as bad as Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi" - who knows - but that's not really a relevant test. Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Those Bacup Morris dancers? How do they fit into the blacking up story then?

curto80 - Member

I don't believe for a minute that not understanding what's wrong about "blacking-up" makes someone a racist, but it is pretty ignorant. A good opportunity though to go and do some reading up about how the practice of blacking-up came into being and how closely it's connected to slavery, white supremacy and systematic suppression of black people, particularly in the US. It was rooted in the reinforcement of ridiculous racial stereotyping and designed to illustrate the superiority of white people over black people. It's not a very clever thing for anyone to do, whether they intend offence or not, let alone a high profile sportsman who then shares it with the World on social media.

Some pretty worrying themes coming out of this discussion though:
- it's not ok to defend racist behaviour by reference to black friends being ok with it. See Series 2, Episode 1'of The Office and the scene with the bread bin "joke"
- it's not just "being PC" to call out racial discrimination
- white people are allowed to be offended by racism without them being guilty of "thinking they know what's best for black people" (particularly bizarre comment that one)
- it may "not be as bad as Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi" - who knows - but that's not really a relevant test. Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Very well put, with a level of patience for ignorance that I don't have. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone on this thread who doesn't understand the issue will do as you advise and try and learn more.

Both his and Griezemann's actions showed incredibly bad judgment by highly privileged people who should have a bit more self-awareness.

Agree totally. Not to defend his actions, but this happened in Spain which is light years behind the UK in terms of racial sensitivity*. Go to any [i]Carnaval[/i] celebration in February and you'll see a lot of kids and adults in blackface. For me it's shocking, and when I mention this to people, it's me that's the weirdo. There is a lot of (what I would call) casual racism in Spain, but on the other hand, people in Spain are seemingly less worried about being a victim of hate crime than in [url= http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Fear-of-crime/Violent-hate-crime ]most countries[/url].

[img] [/img]

a timely cartoon from the Grauniad

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/19/david-squires-on-manchester-city-football-utopia