[Closed] Amazon Forset to get internet...why cant the human race leave alone...

maybe they want it?

Just a thought

or they are told they want it...just a thought also

well, if they don't want it, they won't use it.

problem solved

So, let me understand this: you came on the internet to complain that people that you don't know and haven't asked if they want it, will be able to get the internet ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/10473609/Brazil-mulls-use-of-balloons-to-bring-internet-to-Amazon-rainforest.html

im not at telegraph reader just copying the link

so, whats your problem with it, seriously?

why should people be denied technology the rest of the world have, because of where they live?

Monkey Skype'ing 🙂

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I thought this was going to be about plumbing... 🙄

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un TAPPED potential ay it 🙂

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Amazon Forset to get internet...why cant the human race leave alone...

ooops I obviously meant FOREST !

so, whats your problem with it, seriously?

up till 20-30years ago these villages had survived since the beginning time without the rest of the world now they cant survive without us...thats my problem

Yes, it is.

It's a good job you're here to tell them what they should be doing or else this cultural imperialism could go unchecked.

up till 20-30years ago these villages had survived since the beginning time without the rest of the world now they cant survive without us...thats my problem

well they can survive without us, maybe they've chosen that they want to to survive with us now (a couple of programmes I've watched certainly suggest that)

But, i think you're confusing the remote tiny villages that still have little or no interaction with other humans, with larger villages and towns that have plenty of human interaction, and have plenty of 'western' gadgets.

I'm not sure Google would go to all this trouble and expense to float balloons over villages who have never seen another man before, where would they buy their iPad airs from?

where would they buy their iPad airs from?

amazon?

where would they buy their iPad airs from?
amazon?

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[i]up till 20-30years ago these villages had survived since the beginning time without the rest of the world now they cant survive without us...thats my problem[/i]

So let me get this right, you think its wrong for them to get the internet. What if people in the amazon think your town shouldn't have internet?

We've all survived thousands of years without the internet, some a bit longer than others.

I presume to get the internet, they have electricity?

It seems i am the only one who gets what the OP is saying. Its just a shame that some parts of the world can't be left alone to go about their business without the rest poking its nose in.

Visited some village in the forest in French Guiana over 10 years ago.
They had a communal hut, with a satellite dish and solar panel outside. Inside was an old style Apple Mac.
So they had intawebz back then.

It seems i am the only one who gets what the OP is saying.

No, no. We do "get" it.

We just don't think that that's the point. 8)

[i]Its just a shame that some parts of the world can't be left alone to go about their business without the rest poking its nose in. [/i]

Who is it a shame for though? People that already have all they need and like to thing there's still a bit of the 'old world' left.

mactheknife - Member

It seems i am the only one who gets what the OP is saying. Its just a shame that some parts of the world can't be left alone to go about their business without the rest poking its nose in.

exactly this

So wait. You want them to continue to live in an isolated and traditional way because YOU think it's quaint and somehow worthy?

I know why you have had this thought but you have to understand what you are really saying. You, a complete outsider, are telling them how to live their lives because of what you, a rich westerner with an easy life, thinks is important.

I don't think this is a case of happy innocent forest people being forced into the modern world against their will....

Most likely a westernised hispanic ploy to introduce them to the outside world, with the intention of slowly enticing them away from their land.

Instead of the alternative method of forcing them out with guns and bulldozers then incurring the wrath of the international community/media.

rich westerner with an easy life, thinks is important.

So wait. You want them to continue to live in an isolated and traditional way because YOU think it's quaint and somehow worthy?

okay let them have their internet and in 10 years they can all be even more poverty stricken when they're queuing up to get their costa coffee in a paper cup which so happens to made with trees from their own forests...and why will they be poor cos they'll be buying stuff they cant afford...

But, google aren't talking about the parts of the world that have no contact with anyone else, that would be TOTALLY pointless, as they wouldn't have a scooby what a computer was and they wouldn't be interested, and they wouldn't have electricity..

There are towns in the amazon, that have electricity (by generators mainly), that have other 'western stuff' but don't have internet, think of all the logging towns that are in the depths of the jungle...

you have a vision of a guy in a mud hut being given a chromebook, and being shown reddit. that isn't the reality of what Google are doing!

You can have towns like that and still an attachment to old lands. The internet is a good way to entice the young to the cities and away from their old communities.

Not that I'm against them getting the internet, I just don't for a second believe it's for philanthropic reasons.

think of all the logging towns that are in the depths of the jungle...

Yahhh let's give the illegal loggers teh internetzz....that'll learn 'em!

The internet is a good way to entice the young to the cities and away from their old communities.

I just don't for a second believe it's for philanthropic reasons.

Well of course not. Is someone suggesting it is?

and where will they live ? or work ? only a few will make money the rest...look at India ...

I don't know. Maybe they could help pressure the government to develop sustainable industry within the Amazon basin.

Like

1) Tourism
2) Sustainable Logging
3) Scientific Programs

But that would clash with the interests of the corrupt Brazilian government.

Yahhh let's give the illegal loggers teh internetzz,,,,that'll learn 'em!

are all logging towns illegal? are all towns in the amazon made up of illegal loggers?

On the subject of pervasive, intrusive technology; when will we stop tagging wild animals with GPS transmitters? They deserve their privacy away from our petty curiosity as to what they get up to when we can't observe them. Leave the poor creatures alone!

What have we done to the world?

What have we done?

What about sunrise
What about rain
What about all the things
That you said we were to gain...
What about killing fields
Is there a time
What about all the things
That you said was yours and mine...
Did you ever stop to notice
All the blood we've shed before
Did you ever stop to notice
This crying Earth this weeping shores?

Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh

What have we’ve done to the world
Look what we've done
What about all the peace
That you pledge your only son...
What about flowering fields
Is there a time
What about all the dreams
That you said was yours and mine...
Did you ever stop to notice
All the children dead from war
Did you ever stop to notice
This crying Earth this weeping shores

Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh

I used to dream
I used to glance beyond the stars
Now I don't know where we are
Although I know we've drifted far

Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh

Hey, what about yesterday
(What about us)
What about the seas
(What about us)
The heavens are falling down
(What about us)
I can't even breathe
(What about us)
What about apathy
(What about us)
I need you
(What about us)
What about nature's worth
(ooo, ooo)
It's our planet's womb
(What about us)
What about animals
(What about it)
Turned kingdoms to dust
(What about us)
What about elephants
(What about us)
Have we lost their trust
(What about us)
What about crying whales
(What about us)
Ravaging the seas
(What about us)
What about forest trails
(ooo, ooo)
Burnt despite our pleas
(What about us)
What about the holy land
(What about it)
Torn apart by creed
(What about us)
What about the common man
(What about us)
Can't we set him free
(What about us)
What about children dying
(What about us)
Can't you hear them cry
(What about us)
Where did we go wrong
(ooo, ooo)
Someone tell me why
(What about us)
What about baby boy
(What about it)
What about the days
(What about us)
What about all their joy
(What about us)
What about the man
(What about us)
What about the crying man
(What about us)
What about Abraham
(What about us)
What about death again
(ooo, ooo)
Do we give a damn

Aaaaaaaaah Oooooooooh

are all logging towns illegal?

About 80 percent of logging there is illegal, so yeah most logger towns are made up of illegal loggers.

Now they will have a better way of communicating with each other to cut more tress down.

Brilliant idea!

for what it's worth, my mums village in Northumberland is still on Dial up interwebz.

she wants super fast broadband. but, are we saying she can't have it, because we want to preserve the culture of rural Northumberland?

she will be disappointed.

Brilliant idea!

better idea than giving it to a guy with no computer, or electricity.

Warton, what do you think the environmental consequences will be of giving illegal loggers an internet connection? Given it's brilliant use in planning and logistics.

better idea than giving it to a guy with no computer, or electricity.

Despite the fact that logging actually reduces the GDP of Brazil?

Simply providing internet access is not going to turn them into Essex overnight ffs.

The internet is a tool that is generally for good. It gives people a voice. Commercial capitalism is not the same as the internet.

They'll be able to use ocado?

Tom, the angle I'm coming from is that unfitgeezers original premise is wrong.

he was under the impression that google will be giving internet to tribes that never interact with humans, and have lived that way for thousands of years.

my point is merely that this isn't the case, and there are towns and villages in the amazon that have other 'western' amenities, but not the internet, these are the areas that will be provided with internet.

I really can't be bothered to get into the rights and wrongs of logging in the Amazon (which, FWIW I double don't agree with, especially illegal logging, or the way gangs use high power hoses to search for gold....)

he internet is a tool that is generally for good. It gives people a voice.

Bollocks. The Internet promised a vision of the world becoming connected with the common goal of sharing the human condition, united in one social universe. What did we do? Instead of exploring say.. the issues that effect Inca culture in South America? We instead watch Gangnam Style for the 10 billionth time, send nude selfies to each other, then we whack off to some porn and finally spend all day at work browsing cat memes or singletrack.

Whoo yeah....they're getting teh internetz....everyone rejoice....their lives are going to be so much better!

Its just a shame that some parts of the world can't be left alone to go about their business without the rest poking its nose in.

What if they want to actually start a business that needed internet access?

We instead watch Gangnam Style for the 10 billionth time, send nude selfies to each other, then we whack off to some porn and finally spend all day at work browsing cat memes or singletrack.

who are we to tell people they can't do that?

I'm not saying they can't do it.

I just think they're all deluded morons, the Flynn effect is in reverse and humanities headed for extinction, that's all.

Some of these people may also benefit

Scientific researchers
medical types
wildlife enforcement
the police
local government
schools
NGO's

Ya kna?

rich westerner with an easy life, thinks is important.

you have the wrong person I'm afraid

Type your salary into here: http://www.globalrichlist.com/ and have a think about that.

Whilst you're doing that I'll pop round to your town and disconnect the 'leccy and internet to make it nice and quaint and whatnot.

I just think they're all deluded morons

nice. 😯

wildlife enforcement
the police
local government

Who are by and large utterly corrupt to the core.

I just think they're all deluded morons, the Flynn effect is in reverse and humanities headed for extinction, that's all.

Gosh, aren't you free thinking and insightful.

School: can we have Internet access to improve education and knowledge, maybe it will help break the cycle of children having to work in illegal logging?

Tom: no, you are a deluded moron. Know your place

I guess the internet could be used for good in the Amazon rain forest Warton, personally I just feel it will be used to make corrupt practices more convenient.

Tom,

serious question:

should all people in the world have access to the internet, if they so desire to use it?

That's the question here, not the politics of the Amazon (I don't think anyone would argue it's a massively corrupt place)

Isn't the internet the last thing the amazons got to worry about?
I thought pollution and everyone trying to chop it down to grow Bigmacs is what's destroying it..

The internet is a double-edged sword. As well as being a tool for enlightenment it also makes possible the sort of orwellian surveillance and enforcement that we used to dread, but now some sheeple have become so innured to it that they are no longer bothered. Yes, let's bring to one of the last few places on earth that doesn't have it, and snare everyone in the net. After a while they'll come to understand it was for their own good... Indigenous culture vs globalised cultural pollution; I wonder which will triumph?

That's going to happen anyway, the internet won't make any difference..
Ask a Native American, or an Aborigine,

Warton, of course I feel everyone should have the internet. I just don't think we'll ever use it for anything really good. Have things changed? Are the elites of the world still running things? The internet appears to be a lot of white noise and very little else... apart from the easy access to academic journals and easy communication between academics and philanthropists...what else has it really amounted to that is wholly good? The occupy movement? Ohh yay!

With that note, I'm flouncing. Otherwise I'd have to have a strong opinion on something I know nothing about.

Indigenous culture vs globalised cultural pollution; I wonder which will triumph?

http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/none/internet-and-indigenous-groups -
Currently, it seems that indigenous peoples are eagerly using the Internet when they have the opportunity to do so. It obviously helps them to communicate with each other and to coordinate the international movement that has grown up to defend indigenous rights. Furthermore, the Assyrian example discussed in this issue shows how the Internet can help a scattered and persecuted people to maintain a sense of their culture and community. In a less dramatic, but equally vital fashion, peoples as far apart as the Sami of northern Scandinavia and the native Hawaiians have found the Internet a valuable tool for teaching and preserving their languages. Meanwhile, the Oneida of New York state have taken the lead among Native Americans in using the Internet to tell the story of their nation. This process of informing and educating is aimed at other Americans and has reached the White House itself, but it is also importantly aimed at the Oneida and other peoples of the Iroquois Confederacy. In Jean Polly's article there is a telling quotation from Brian Patterson of the Oneida Men's Council who remembered that when he was a little boy, he had an aunt who was always asking him "Do you know your treaties? You must know your treaties." He did not know his treaties and did not know where to find them. He remembered his aunt when the Oneida were viewing the White House website and they noticed that it listed treaties between the United States and other nations, but omitted the treaties with Indian nations. The Oneida notified the White House and put their own archive of treaties up on the Internet in 1994. Now the Oneida and everybody else can know their treaties; but their experience with the Internet indicated a possible problem in the future. As they searched for an appropriate way to give an abbreviated name to their Internet domain, they suggested `.sov' (for sovereign) but quickly discovered that raised a lot of difficulties. An international debate currently rages over sovereignty, how the local autonomy of indigenous peoples should be defined and whether it should be tolerated. In the meantime, many indigenous groups are finding that the Internet helps them to define it for themselves.

But for each positive result there are indigenous children growing up wanting to emulate Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus...

Interesting link.

Semi Counter-point. Kind of something to think about in regards to that link.

http://blog.okfn.org/2012/03/22/will-technology-boost-the-fight-against-corruption-in-the-post-soviet-region/

I couldn't help it.

That link appears to argue flatly against your position...

Freely accessible data is becoming a must for transparent and accountable states and their institutions. Data presentation online is inherent to its publicity. It is important to identify the local communities that can constantly come up with ideas on how to achieve greater government transparency and increase civic participation in public decision-making. Such multi-stakeholder communities could more than ever contribute to a further democratization of the post-Soviet region.

There is clear potential to better use the information and communication technologies to increase the public transparency and encourage e-participation in the country

While one can argue about whether demand or supply should come first, an open government that is willing to increase public transparency ideally should do more to pro-actively promote e-services.

I read that as stating that you can't just give people access to the internet an expect it to be a force for good. There are other requirements.

I don't think the Brazilian government can provide that openness and accountability even with wide access to the internet.

But for each positive result there are indigenous children growing up wanting to emulate Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus..

But, WHO ARE YOU to say they shouldn't be able to if they wanted? Any pop star admiration in your younger closet?

This makes for very interesting reading, especially page 16 onwards.

What did we do? Instead of exploring say.. the issues that effect Inca culture in South America? We instead watch Gangnam Style for the 10 billionth time, send nude selfies to each other, then we whack off to some porn and finally spend all day at work browsing cat memes or singletrack.

If you can't find any instances where the internet has been positive then you have certainly watched too many Gangam style videos. You're being quite absurdly pessimistic.