MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So, mrs is heading back to work after sprog #2, and due to a change in circumstances won’t have access to a company car, which means we need a second vehicle. In amongst all the Foci, Astras, Hyundais et al., I’ve come across an Alfa Giulietta, the cloverleaf, nonetheless. It’s priced very well, equivalent to the more usual suspects.
So, pros:
It’s an Alfa
Looks
The “drive”
Cons:
It’s an Alfa
Are they still really that unreliable?
Seemed a little smokey on startup and whilst watching it be manoeuvred so I could take it for a test drive
Thoughts?
It's an Alfa, it smokes and you're still kidding yourself that it will be okay?
Sheesh.
Get a car that has comfortable seats, good AC and a decent stereo for all those hours you'll be spending stuck in traffic. DSG or auto makes it even more bearable. Edit: ...and tall tyres so that you don't break your wheels on all the potholes.
My Alfa mechanic (you get to know them very well) always said 1litre of oil per 1000 miles was acceptable.
Which at the time I remember calculating was the same as my 2 stroke MX bike.
What kind of sunglasses do you have?
Ignore them. It won't cost you a fortune, it'll look great from the outside and from the inside and won't cost any more than the average car*
*As long as you don't drive it.
I've had three Alfas, 2 were fabulous and one was a P.I.T.A. however that was traced to a badly repaired accident damage.
The only reason that I haven't got one at the moment is they don't do a van 🙂
Mmm, Alfa van.
I've put 100k miles+ (62k/48k) on two Giuliettas in the past 5 years & apart from one minor issue on each they were without fault. In fact, last time I checked they were outscoring VW/Audi/Skoda on their Dekra ratings for reliability.
That said, many of the QV's will have been driven 'enthusiastically' because they are a fun, very drivable car. If it is smoke you've seen then I'd at least be asking to see the service history including oil changes because the combination of the multi-air system & the turbo does tend to degrade it over time & it needs to be kept on top of. My last one used to emit a fair bit of 'vapour' rather than smoke on start up & until it was properly warmed up.
Unfortunately, the perception of the brand hasn't changed despite a complete overhaul of production & design overseen by a number of top people (including the guy who ran BMW's M Sport division).
I know it's full of fan-boys but you'll get honest responses on alfaowner.com if you want more info.
3 Alfa's here as well, 2 156s from 9 months old and a GT from 7 years old and I still have it after 7 years. Ist 156 was a bit of trouble but the other two have been brilliant and I am struggling to find a reason to get rid of the GT.
The Guiliettas are pretty solid and the reliability stats on the new Alfas are also very good.
I have driven a couple of Guiiliettas - one was a 1.4 150BHP and a cloverleaf.
The cloverleaf is I think a bit thirsty for around town and you need to be in the sport DNA setting to make it Alfa fun, so it is even thirstier.
So I would be looking at the QV Line, or Sportiva for a bit older.
That's the 1.4 MA engine which is pretty solid apparently, and 170BHP, as 150 isn't enough to be lively enough.
Economy will be decent and I've seen comments from owners who prefer the QV Line over the cloverleaf as the cloverleaf is too refined and quite unless you push it hard, which is obviously too hard for the public road.
Like this one :
You need to find a good local Alfa specialist - the franchise garages are generally poor. I will be buying my next car to stay with my local guy, probably a QV Line.
The only thing is the QV Line doesn't have the two exhausts of the cloverleaf, whch looks more aethetically pleasing...
Find a good one. Enjoy.
Had 3 and the latest is a Mito Diesel I bought to do motorway commuting miles. All been spot on and as long as you are mechanically sympathetic then you will be fine. The hangover from the bad old days is the reason you can pick one up so cheaply.
Ok, I’ll narrow down my question(s):
1) are modern Alfas much worse than any other marque? Noting as my other car is a Freelander I do perhaps have low expectations of reliability...
2) smoke... shagged turbo? Weeping seals? Usual on startup for a turbo petrol car that’s not been driven for a while? It certainly had no issues shifting when I took it for a test drive
Blue smoke or white smoke?
What year, engine and mileage?
1) No, they are not.
2) All possibilities but as i said earlier, you can get oil degradation with the MA/Turbo combination. Neither of mine did it but I did change oil before services if needed (according to computer).
Blueish - not water
It’s a 2012 model, but only 40k on clock. 1.75TBi Cloverleaf.
Good motor the TBI, however the service interval is too long and it doesn’t do the turbo many favours. I’ve just done the one on my 159 TBI @ 50k. Circa £300 for a turbo, then 4 hours labour.
i quite fancy a 159 tbh
i quite fancy a 159 tbh
not as reliable as a guillieta apparently. Getting long in the tooth.
I fancy a 159 estate and have seen a few nice ones but never with roof bars.
If you go looking at 159's and Brera's make sure you check out the front sub-frames .
Lots of reports they are rusting through .
Also check the hand brake is not dragging . The cables are run on top of the bodyshell , under the carpets/trim. You have to dismantle the interior to change them .
With the newer petrol turbo engines in the Mito and Giulietta , ignore the service interval and change you oil every 6 months .
I fancy a 159 estate and have seen a few nice ones but never with roof bars.
My Brother in Law has a lovely 159 Sportwagon. Although it is more of an ornament than a car at the moment as it has died.
In the old days alfas drove special which made the niggles worth putting up with. I've driven a few modern ones and they have lost that IMHO and are now much more like rebodied fiat's.
I see someone up there insinuates BMWs are well engineered/reliable.
No. Granted they may drive nice. But they are badly engineered, engines (M5 liners, 1 series cam chains, various diffs). Better off with an Alfa. You'll look a lot cooler as well.
I had a 156 that I bought from my dad's dealership. It lasted just over 50 miles before the engine exploded (despite just having had a full service including cambelt change). The Lotus that I had at the same time, in comparison, was a paragon of virtue, and never stranded me in 100k miles.
I'm not sure whether newer models are better, but a friend who has had 3 (155, 156 and 159) had constant problems with expensive suspension bits breaking.
JP
156’s have had creaky top arms for years. A good squirt of Teflon and ignoring works wonders. My 156 wasn’t particularly difficult to look after. Occasional boost hoses, rear Calipers and a set of top arms. Not too bad for 110k miles on it.
And yes they do drive better than your average rep mobile.
The cables are run on top of the bodyshell , under the carpets/trim. You have to dismantle the interior to change them .
That will stop you having to put a fan heater under the car to defrost the handbrake cables when it gets cold and they’ve got damp.
I had forgotten that bit of fun until you mentioned that.
Blue smoke is likely to be turbo seals. Check that nobody has used the non-multiair oil in a multiair lump. If the multiair system dies it can lead to failures elsewhere as well as keeling over in its own right. I’d think carefully.
The TCT box is ok, it’s not as good as DSG but pretty close. Afaik there were a few manuals produced.
Generally they’re a reliable brand now. Far fewer major issues than VWG seem capable of generating.
Latest Alfa's rank very highly for reliability.
Yes, I was surprised too.
I'd try them now, which wouldn't have been the case in the past.
I don't think you're mad. I had a 2011 Giulietta a few years ago. It was the 2.0 JTDM-2 and it was great. Handling was brilliant, fuel economy was good and stayed pretty consistent however I drove it. Downsides were that the usual Alfa poor quality interior bugs came out later on when the dash had a bit of a rattle. Also, the tracking was a pig to sort and I had to get 4 wheel tracking and alignment done. According to the guy who did it, many arrive brand new needing sorted. Overall it was a brilliant car, but definitely a decision of the heart and not head. I lost quite a bit selling it on due to the depreciation, but I would have another. However, I had a Mito as a courtesy car when the Giulietta was getting serviced. It was a horrible thing to drive.
My GT is on 192k. Jtdm, I change the oil every 6 months.
It’s had more suspension rebuilds than I care to remember (it’s a 147/156 essentially) but apart from that it’s pretty much a normal car.
Find a specialist and you’re away.
I’d have another, prob not a Guilietta tho
Hot_fiat: Hmmm, that sounds potentially like a world of hurt. Might there be more benign reasons?
Also looking at a couple of Golf GTIs today. Both older and with far higher mileage. Then as I said at the start, there’s your usual Focus/Astra/Hyundai.
This Alfa is cheaper than a couple of others private sale. I’m beginning to think the blue smoke is the reason why! 😂
I had a 52 reg 156 2.4 turbo diesel. It was a lovely car. The door handle (push button) used to be stiff and needed a bit of oil every now and then and it had a front end drivers side knock I couldn't ever find despite replacing loads of bits.
I'd have another one, apart from those issues it was spot on. I traded it in for a vw t5.
Blue smoke would put me off no matter what the car.
alfas are great, and cheap if you let someone else suck the depreciation
Have you done the old Escort RS Turbo check-it's-not-4ked routine? Start it up, let it idle for a couple of minutes then boot it. Walk away if there's any blue smoke and you don't fancy changing the turbo.
That said, it's not a bad job on these - it hangs on the front of the engine and is pretty accessible.
Carefully read up on the multiair system (the abarth, fiat and alfa forums are good places to start). It is very clever and precisely made (to a Yamaha design). Incorrect oil or missed changes thoroughly shags them. "Better" oil is just as bad as poor quality stuff. Use EXACTLY what fiat/alfa suggest. The petronas selenia stuff is great and is what is used at the factory, but beware there is a 5w40 and a 5w40 multiair spec. Comes in funky tins that I threatened to adorn our kitchen with.
@MrGrim the way to sort the tracking is to lift it on ramps, slacken the subframe bolts and ****t the thing with a lump hammer then do it all up again. Makes it settle properly.
Have you done the old Escort RS Turbo check-it’s-not-4ked routine? Start it up, let it idle for a couple of minutes then boot it. Walk away if there’s any blue smoke and you don’t fancy changing the turbo.
Yup, saw the smoke on startup and gentle reversing (I was behind the car), but nothing visible through the mirror when accelerating hard. Bigger worry would be the multiair system I guess. Though it has FSH and one owner from new (who’s said he’ll call me), service stamps are from generic places that I doubt woul have used such a specific oil.
As an aside, the GTI I drove after posting this seemed more solid despite being older and with more miles. But I also know VWs are hardly a paragon of virtue in the context of reliability these days. Hmmmmmm.
Well, just had some info from the last owner. His view: wanting an Alfa is one thing, but wanting that Alfa? Yeah, I’d be mad. Many annoying niggling things like central locking, windows etc, it’s on its second turbo (which was from a wrecker’s and wasn’t reconned), due timing belt. He was glad to be shut of it, and got a fraction of its current list price as part-ex.
GTI it is....
Alfa ownership never changes, sound just like my 3 year old,at the time, 3.0 166 I owned and lost a fortune on.
I’m normally a proponent of all Italian vehicles - the engineering is genuinely better. But that smells of neglect. Think you made the right choice.
Yup, and the places he'd had it serviced weren't that flash. Pity, and I'd still like to own one some day, but not that one!
We had a look at a Giulietta some years back as we both liked the looks and are suckers for a bit of romance and Italian flair.
Wow, what a disappointment to drive. It was the higher powered diesel and was rapid as hell but it felt a couple of generations behind the competition in every other respect. The seats felt odd and too high, the switches made of cheese, the dashboard hollow and flimsy, awful pedal position and generally not a nice thing to drive. We just couldn't bring ourselves to buy one over the 62 reg Focus we had or the BMW 1 Series we got as both were streets ahead in virtually all aspects.
On the look out for a cheap 2nd car now so am obviously drawn to the Giulitta again. I'd be interested in a 159 Touring if they weren't daft money. On that point, my FIL had a 159 Touring for a few years and loved it. Replaced it with a A4 and couldn't believe how much better the Audi was. He'd have another though.
What's wrong with us?
I'm a bit of an Alfa enthusiast who is always trying to defend them to friends who come out with all the old Alfa cliches.
I've been in an Alfa for about 11 years and my next car will likely be another. Had a 2.0 147 then a 147 GTA (which I have recently sold due to us going down to one car to save some money) and the wife has a MiTo. With a small child we really need a bigger car so hopefully either a Giulietta or a 159 will follow. Ideal world would be a Giulia but they are out of my price range.
It's ridiculous how many people immediately jump on the "it will always be broken" bandwagon just because that is what someone has said to them. Modern Alfas do relatively well on the reliability scales so like any marque, it is largely down to how it has been looked after and a degree of luck.
Sounds like the OP got some good inside info on that particular car though, the next guy to view it might not be so lucky. Good luck with a Golf GTI, hope you get a good one...should've picked an Alfa.
My old 156 was lovely and didn't brake down at all
Sounds like the OP got some good inside info on that particular car though, the next guy to view it might not be so lucky. Good luck with a Golf GTI, hope you get a good one…should’ve picked an Alfa.
Yup, he’d part-exed it to a different garage than the one selling, so no skin off his nose to be frank about it. Anyway I think he was being honest as he told me he’d traded it for a Koleos, and Christ knows why you’d own up to that 😂
For what's it's worth I've had 3 alfas over the years a 156 a 159 and a guiletta. All been utterly dependable. I do big mileage too. 40.000 a year. I've also had fords Vauxhall VW lancias fiats and a rover..the most unreliable of the lot was the VW.
ruceandhisbonus
Member
I’ve been in an Alfa for about 11 years and my next car will likely be another. Had a 2.0 147 then a 147 GTA (which I have recently sold due to us going down to one car to save some money) and the wife has a MiTo. With a small child we really need a bigger car so hopefully either a Giulietta or a 159 will follow. Ideal world would be a Giulia but they are out of my price range.
I caved in & got one almost a year ago. They really are something special - so much so, I've two mates who have swapped out their 3 series for them despite being long term beemer fans & a colleague has ordered one to replace his A4. The latter waited until I'd put 15,000 miles on mine before jumping in case it had issues/servicing was costly.
Had a Stelvio courtesy car at service & that was spot on too.
Feels like a parallel universe when an Alfa is still an Alfa but doesn't want to let you down at every opportunity.
OP: Sounds like that QV had had a very hard life (which many do) so dodged one there. Never say never though...
I’ve also had fords Vauxhall VW lancias fiats and a rover..the most unreliable of the lot was the VW.
when I had my first 156, which was some trouble, the guy at the franchise said the worst car for reliability that their franchises were dealing with was a VW passat.
I've had three Alfas, a 1.8 156 SW, a 1.6 147 and a 155hp MiTo.
The MiTo was a money pit which needed a rebuilt gearbox and diff (the well known M32 issue), a new aircon compressor, front strut top mounts, three broken springs, a new rear brake caliper, new boot wiring loom and a new front seat release cable (£120...) in the eighteen month i had the bloody thing.
My current Focus has needed one new front spring (£100) in the two years and 40k miles I've owned it.
I won't touch another Alfa.
My Alfa mechanic (you get to know them very well) always said 1litre of oil per 1000 miles was acceptable.
Which at the time I remember calculating was the same as my 2 stroke MX bike.
Certain Audi's from mid 2000's to late 2000's can use 0.5 litres every 600 miles before Audi consider it an issue! down to poor piston ring tolerances apparently
I'm lucky and get 1000 miles to 0.5 litres in my A4 2.0T, yet all my old Ford Escort RS Turbo's never used a drop of oil
We’ve had a 916 Spider, a 156 and a 147 and whilst the Spider was a bit of a diva (roof and are suspension bushes) the 156 racked up big miles as my company car and the 147 was family transport for 3 years and last time I looked on the DVLS MOT test history site both the Spider and 147 were still going strong.
Most problematic cars I’ve had were french and my currently golf 7 GTD whilst a great car has had one or two niggles.
So my experience is that they are no worse than many other marques and I’m genuinely considering getting a Giulia as my next car at the end of the year.
1 litre per 1000 miles was within Alfa’s spec for the TS engines (and JTS I think although they have other issues!). The new TB engines are superb, the 155hp unit in my MiTo was fantastic and in reality far too powerful for the woeful chassis it was bolted into. Mulitair units are not so good and need regular oil changes with the correct oil or you’ll be looking at a new multiair unit at £700 I think.
I had a 147 2.0 Selespeed when they came out. Fortunately, it was a company car. Loved it though. Ran on rails, went round corners like a crazy thing. Main issues were silly electrical stuff, Brake faults/ ABS faults, which cleared if you switched it off - didn't re-appear for months. The BOSE sub wasn't connected from new - the hifi was loud enough, but took a dealer visit to sort. The paddle shifters 'coating' wore off after a few months - took another 6 months to get a new steering wheel.
Really loved it, but only had the car 2 years, so there was no long term issues. A neighbour had a standard 147 after I went and bought a boring Nissan. His blew up (timing belt) before it should have done.
I think you have to have one - you do need to buy one from someone who knows the cars, and things like regular oil changes..
I ended up with a P12 Nissan Primera. Much more boring, but it did go round corners, had almost as good a sound system (sub +6 speakers), Nav and loads of tech. I still have the car and it was from 2002 - I wouldn't have still had the 147 running though. It had far too many glitches from new to get to 17 years old.
Had to be done, and I'd consider another, but an Alfa wouldn't be my daily driver - I commute in my old car as it carries 4 bikes on the roof regular, does everything and works, despite being old, but it's not an Alfa.