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You’re actually worse than Hitler
...but not quite as bad as Binners who is, quite literally, Hitler.
perchypanther
Member
You’re actually worse than Hitler…but not quite as bad as Binners who is, quite literally, Hitler
Bintler! 😆
Seriously, just deny the leave request and offer the guy some kind of benefit in kind. You can organise a trip to Milan for everyone else, why can't you do something for him he'd appreciate?
I can’t believe people are arguing about this. if you want Monday off, go to Milan. If you can’t go to Milan, or don’t want to go to Milan, working from home fielding calls is the alternative.
I have no idea what the business is. I’m assuming it is not a service that expects a lot of calls and has tight SLAs, otherwise they wouldn’t attempt to be available while traveling.
thinking about it, if the person in question is genuinely unable to go, would it not be more reasonable to have everyone available to take calls on the Monday? It was mentioned earlier that this would be the plan if everyone attended.
@johndoh -stop fannying around, me and Perchy are hammered now and the taxi queue is full of weirdos chasing us
why can’t you do something for him he’d appreciate?
At the very least Monday morning coke and hookers
I can’t believe people are arguing about this
Thank the lord you came along and solved it! err
why can’t you do something for him he’d appreciate?
How about a lap dance, Alan Partridge style?
Thank the lord you came along and solved it! err
I’m pretty sure I did, share the covering of the phones between everyone. Though I’ve just remembered that a temp was going to be drafted in to cover Monday.
the only solution is to stick to the offer of working from home, otherwise it sets a precedent for the future. I know I’d rather have a 3 day weekend than spend the weekend with colleagues.
The OP, tomorrow morning:
I know I’d rather have a 3 day weekend than spend the weekend with colleagues.
If that was how the majority felt then we would just give them a day off in lieu of a company event.
In fact, we have just given everyone this Friday afternoon off as a thank you for their hard work on some recent high pressure projects.
Pffft! I got a Hero chocolate for a successful resuscitation last night. Beat that.
I were him I’d think twice about working for you
I think we all know where the OP is coming to next time he has a vacancy, you're all nightmare employees!!!!
Well you know me as a boss baiter and I do not think he is doing owt wrong – even said it would be declared as a BIK for tax
Must have missed that part.
So if its a Benefit In Kind, and the staff going are paying tax on that, and johndoh isn't claiming tax back (not work), I cant see any reason for the 'cant go' to not be in work Monday. That being said, all those going should book Monday as leave.
That being said, all those going should book Monday as leave.
They're going with the boss. Surely it's up to him ?
you sound like a good chap to work for. What industry are you in?
i wasn’t trying to belittle your generosity and I’m amazed by a lot of the response that seem to think you are some kind of arse for taking people to Milan.
crazyjenkins01
That being said, all those going should book Monday as leave.
What is it with people wanting to punish people! 😆 Why in the hell would you do that. Just give the guy the friday off. 😆
They’re going with the boss. Surely it’s up to him ?
If the weekend isnt work, then Monday is a normal work day. If they are travelling back from a non-work event (therefore in their own time) yet not having to book leave/are being paid for it, then the one left behind would surely be losing out??
Pffft! I got a Hero chocolate for a successful resuscitation last night. Beat that.
Was it stuck in the patient's throat?
Also, what flavour? If it's eclairs or caramel, you should file a complaint.
i wasn’t trying to belittle your generosity and I’m amazed by a lot of the response that seem to think you are some kind of arse for taking people to Milan.
I don't think anyone has suggested that. Its the treatment of the team member who being told to work after having the audacity to cite personal reasons for not giving up his weekend which is the issue. The contribution of said team member doesn't seem to be of value, because there is not an alternative being offered in sympathy.
My main concern (as a trade unionist) is fairness.
One member of staff not being treated the same, for what sounds like an unavoidable restriction, is the issue.
If the weekend isn't work/in work time, which sounds like the case, Monday is a normal work day for all staff and as such time not at work (travelling back from a free holiday) should be treated the same as having a day off to have a lay-in/take the kids out/go for a bike ride etc.
crazyjenkins01
Member
My main concern (as a trade unionist) is fairness.
One member of staff not being treated the same, for what sounds like an unavoidable restriction, is the issue.
If the weekend isn’t work/in work time, which sounds like the case, Monday is a normal work day for all staff and as such time not at work (travelling back from a free holiday) should be treated the same as having a day off to have a lay-in/take the kids out/go for a bike ride etc.
Madness! Ye balance things up by adding something positive, not taking something away.
That's kind of my point. Fairness.
Either add something to the last member of staff (a day off) or the others give up a day off. Each has its pros and cons, but then its fair.
If the other staff are travelling back from a non-work activity in work time and therefore being paid for it, and the boss/owner is happy with that (which seems John is) then expecting the last staff member to still work seems unfair. If the other staff are taking a days annual leave for travelling back, then expecting him/her to work is totally reasonable. The problem is, it sounds like whats being talked about is a mish-mash of both.
Unless I missed something @johndoh?
I don’t think anyone has suggested that. Its the treatment of the team member who being told to work after having the audacity to cite personal reasons for not giving up his weekend which is the issue.
Giving up his weekend? Or being given the opportunity to take part in an enjoyable trip?
Unless I missed something @johndoh?
To be honest I don't know anymore. I thought we were doing something nice (and the team seemed to think so last year, including this person) yet it seems we have screwed up and it has taken much more of my day, my business partner's day and our office manager's day than we'd expected.
We won't be doing this again next year - we'll just bung them £100 (with usual taxable deductions) in their December pay packet. I hope I don't offend anyone of different religious beliefs...
Unless I missed something
You did. It is by definition a work activity, as its being funded and organised by their employer. Whether its in working hours or not is irrelevant albeit the attending employees have chosen to give up their non work time to attend.
Monday's activities then are acceptable as deemed by their manager and upward, but the question of fairness remains.
"We won’t be doing this again next year – we’ll just bung them £100"
Sounds a much better idea, tbh. The only things your employees will never have issue with are being given time or money.
I'd take a hundred quid over losing my own weekend to attend some 'team building' jolly every time. As would most, I feel.
Edit: Not being dismissive of your gesture, John, But surely you can see that a weekend in Milan with colleagues in your free time is not for everyone.
young children, other family commitments, fear of flying, whatever?
The reasons are complicated and I would rather not go into them, but it’s none of the above and they attended last year.
Seems they've got a genuine reason, and would have liked to go, unlike some of the miserable grinches on this thread that want to clock 37 hours a week without speaking to anyone and waiting for their pension to kick in.
Did you try to gauge availability before organising?
As someone suggested - a day of phone and email answering (from home if the technology allows) while watching youtube/netflix; plus let them have a dinner with their partner on expenses. That way everyone is equally tired and hungover Tuesday morning.
Someone who doesnt want to engage in interaction with their colleagues is a fairly rubbish team member in most circumstances.
Johndoh,
Irrespective of what else, you have my respect for trying. Brilliant job fella.
Once again I despair at humanity and STW
I want to work for jondoh !!
Once again I despair at humanity and STW
I don't see why. OP's done a good thing for most of his employees and in the main received some good alternatives about how he should manage the one who can't make it.
You ask the questions on here and get a range of mixed opinions, some of which you don't like - we've all experienced that. Its how you disseminate that information and use it that really counts.
Once again I despair at humanity and STW
You know how at work there is always 'that person' the one that nobody really likes and always has to be a bellend about absolutely everything, well I think they've all replied in force on this topic 😉
It's impossible to please everyone in situations like this but it looks to me like you were just trying to do something nice for your staff.
If I ever had a question where I needed an opinion from a group of normal people theres no way in hell it would get asked on here 😂
Burn the witch!!
🧙
“We won’t be doing this again next year – we’ll just bung them £100”
Awaits the "Staff member being bullied for spannering next years Xmas euro piss up" thread.😉
Johndoh you have my sympathy, you sound like a top bloke. Hope you find a compromise that works for all.
It’s great what you’ve tried to do you can’t please everyone and that small little gesture to the one who couldn’t make it of another gift might have just sealed it but yes a bonus is much easier.
Once again I despair at humanity and STW
It would be a shit place if we all agreed. Also labelling it as team building day is what through people, simply calling it a paid weekend away would have been easier to understand.
Once again I despair at humanity and STW
Agreed. Possibly the thing to take is the variety of reasonable information you did get so you’re better informed
No one here knows the exact details so comments are to a level assumptive
I wish I worked for a firm like yours. The principal of idea and the engaged team (from what I understand) sounds like a breath of fresh air
Next year you’ll have a clearer stance on how to manage it 🙂
Team building, morale building, extra rewards etc I just don’t get any of it tbh. I prefer just to do my job and get paid, it’s why I’ve spent my whole life on price work or quoting. If someone doesn’t work hard enough they don’t earn enough and won’t be given anymore work. If you do the job right you’ll get more work, I don’t need to be told great job I just want the money. The reward for doing your job right is the money you earn, there’s nothing more needed.
As nice a gesture as it is taking folk away for a weekend I’d never give my weekend up for work unless it involved a lot of money and never to spend social time with employees 👍
Just to point out that I would never attend an event like this unless compulsory and being paid - and the 3 days becomes 2 weeks work if its compulsory as its 24/7 for the time away. 80 hours to be paid. Want me to attend. Pay me for it. You only get my time when I am being paid
I cannot think of anything worse workwise than giving up a weekend to do an event like this - thats my personal take
Work is work, my time is my time. the two do not mix ever
I work to live, I do not live to work
johndoh
Member
We won’t be doing this again next year – we’ll just bung them £100 (with usual taxable deductions) in their December pay packet. I hope I don’t offend anyone of different religious beliefs…
That's also mental, those type of trips aren't for everyone, but that doesn't mean you should still do them, just think you should have an alternative idea.
It's a good idea, defo don't give it up, just because of some piss taking on here...
It’s a good idea, defo don’t give it up, just because of some piss taking on here…
I read it as it was too much effort as it took too much time of 3 senior staff.
If I ever had a question where I needed an opinion from a group of normal people
TBF, I cannot envisage a scenario where I'd ever want an opinion from normal people. They're boring idiots, I'll take the opinions of weird and interesting people any day.
morale building ... I just don’t get any of it
The beatings will continue until morale improves?
It depends on the industry. I can understand if you are overstretched and underfunded frontline police, NHS, fire service etc busting your balls every shift, then being asked to attend unpaid "team building" would warrant a sharp rebuff.
However in johndoh's example I'm assuming private sector, relatively successful small/medium sized business, everyone's wages/bonus depends on the continued success of the business - such jollies are excellent management. It both rewards the team and generates cameraderie and is genuinely good fun.
I think the mutual incomprehension on this thread maybe down to this differing perspective.
People being people, you then you get the outliers who chuck a spanner in the works.
My sympathies johndoh. No good deed goes unpunished.
I have used STW for exactly this - when you have a situation you are not sure abut asking on here will get you a range of views from a range of people. You do have to be thick skinned but it is very good at getting to the crux of the issue and to seeing it from different directions
Facebook / your friends tends to be an echo chamber. this place most certainly is not
OP should have stuck this on the AIBU section of Mumsnet for a quick flaming. Would make any criticism on here look mild!
Just to point out that I would never attend an event like this unless compulsory and being paid – and the 3 days becomes 2 weeks work if its compulsory as its 24/7 for the time away. 80 hours to be paid. Want me to attend. Pay me for it. You only get my time when I am being paid
I cannot think of anything worse workwise than giving up a weekend to do an event like this – thats my personal take
Work is work, my time is my time. the two do not mix ever
I work to live, I do not live to work
My boss is a friend, we spend a lot of time together, we MTB together too. I find it deeply saddening you're in a job where you wouldn't want to spend time with the people you work with.
Whilst I'm not best mates with all of them, we get on well.