[Closed] Alpkit- they've just gone big time, and they've got it all wrong.

The pound has plumetted recently, hence all manufacturer prices have risen. Also the new Filo will be significantly better than the original version so it's not an apples V apples comparison. The newer kit is catching up with the big brands e.g. "ethical" down, blue sign fabrics etc

They've been going that way for a while. Not bought anything off them for a couple years now. Prices crept up and quality didn't. Much better value on offer elsewhere which is a shame because I have a lot of their stuff from early days and it was great for the price, unbeatable for somethings but not now.

Not 100% sure but I think they have ex-Rab (or another company) people designing the range, and use the same fabrics so it is more in line with the big names and I guess will cost more than it used to, rather than just rebadging catalogue stuff. Similar ME down jacket to the Phantac is £320 so £100 less?

It is a lot of money to spend on a "budget" brand if you're bothered by the label though.

I've been really disappointed in Alpkit recently. I was a long-term customer and had one of the very first drybag backpacks when they first started. Back in the spring I bought a pair of sunnies, the frame snapped straight out of the box as I was opening the arms for the first time. got in touch re warranty, with photos, and was essentially told to bugger off because I couldn't prove I hadn't been rough with them. They seem to have gone from making a few decent items with great customer service to rebadging a lot of chinese shit and there's so much churn in the ranges; there'll be something good for a bit and then it's gone, never to be seen again. Don't bother with them any more and don't recommend them if asked as a result.

Still half to two thirds the price of the equivalent Rab product then, if they last as long, which they could well do.  Still good value (relatively speaking) even if it’s now out of your price range.  Lots of other budget brands still out there if you can’t spend more 😄

Try decathlon

For me its not about the price, its about quality and value. The original Filo was half the price of the equivalent Rab or ME jacket, but now they are pretty much the same, yet the quality hasn't  gone up considerably to match the price range.

Compared the most recent offerings directly?

@andy8442 - to justify that, can you please explain what you've bought recently and why it's not met your expectations?

but it was never quite as well made as the big brands.

Still true, I like Alpkit stuff but the quality is still budget brand, not even close to Arcteryx / Patagonia / Black Diamond etc; although I suspect the gap is closing year on year....

I bought a  https://www.alpkit.com/products/vizsler-mens jacket earlier this year and the seamstress must have been pissed when she was sewing up the cuffs, not a straight line in sight. Arcteryx etc would never let that through quality control.

To be fair, if you bought an equivalent hardface fleece from Arc'teryx, it would cost you something in the region of £150 rather than £55. You'd get a nicer cut and, probably, a branded Polartec fabric, but you'd potentially be paying almost £100 more.

The original Filo was half the price of the equivalent Rab or ME jacket, but now they are pretty much the same

Best put up some like for like comparisons if you think that's true.

I'll start you off.  It's actually pretty difficult to pair up the different products from the 2 lines - do you do it on warmth; price; filling; outer material; intended purpose?  I'll start by going on warmth:

Alpkit Filo £199.  Weight (total/fill): 790/220g (Med).  Fill 90/10.  Fill power 650.  Outer:  100% Nylon (unbranded).  Stitch-through construction.

Rab Neutrino Pro.£290.  Weight (total/fill):605/230g (Med).  Fill power 800.  Outer:  Pertex Quantum Pro.  Stitch-through construction.

You will get similar performance from these two products.  The Alpkit might even last a bit longer as the Pertex Quantum outer on the Rab is very light, but has limited robustness.  Rab is £100 more, so a third more expensive.  Not the same price.  For that you get a lighter product and better quality filling.

The price difference has closed, but not as much as you are making out.

The Current Rab Electron - £207 e-Outdoor , 800 fill as well. The Filo is 650 fill, and the Phantac 750 fill. My original Filo was 700 fill, so they are putting less in as well.

My first Filo replaced a 12 yr old Sheffield made Rab Endurance, who's only fault was it got covered  in truck grease. The Filo lasted 3 hard years, but it was only £89 in the summer sale, so I wasn't too concerned. It's replacement is now about to go into it's third winter and the pockets are tearing just like the previous one. But it was cheap, and I'll sew it up and make it last another couple of years, but......spend  £200 for a new one? No thanks.

The Alpkit Filo with 220g of 650FP down at £199, is actually closer to the Rab Axion which uses 280g of 650FP and is £220. And has a Pertex outer.

I've been an occasional customer over the years. Had some good stuff, but thwarted by availability at times.

Was in the shop in Hathersage last week. They are definitely going for a more upmarket feel these days, so I guess that comes with more overheads and higher priced items.

They had plenty nice kit, bought a few things. Good luck to them. Staff were all enthusiastic, helpful and knowledgeable.

The number of sleeping mats that I've had fail means I probably won't buy from Alpkit again, 1st generation fails, understandable but when the replacements and later purchases failed that was it for me.

rrp on Rab electron is £245.

Have you inspected both current offerings to evaluate quality?  Or are you going to ignore that one again?

Personally I would pay more for either of those 2 Rab options than the Alpkit at £200, based on the spec alone, but I wouldn’t condemn the brand completely without actually having a proper look at the quality and design, which is what you have done.

Angeldust;do you work for alpkit?

Angeldust;do you work for alpkit?

🙂 No, and I don't have any particular bias for the brand either.  As the above post suggests, like the OP I would currently buy the more expensive Rab stuff over Alpkit (though unlike the OP, I also did this when the Alpkit stuff was cheaper).  However, the OP is 1) complaining about price rises (and condemning the brand based on that), and 2) stating he puts 'value' and 'quality' above price....

For me its not about the price, its about quality and value. The original Filo was half the price of the equivalent Rab or ME jacket, but now they are pretty much the same, yet the quality hasn’t  gone up considerably to match the price range.

...but he hasn't directly compared the new products he is talking about.  Seems a bit unfair, and based only on the cost rise, not a reflection of the quality.  Which is what leads me believe it's the price ride he doesn't like, not any change in 'value'.  There's always decathlon.

I also place a bet that we see other companies prices soar in the next year.

If the OP had bought something, it had failed and AlpKit didn't honour their 3yr warranty then they'd have a good point. But it just reads as "I don't like them anymore 'cos the price has gone up but I've not bought anything but this is a great site to complain about them". That's not really fair.

For value go to Aldi. Outdoor kit is expensive but always has been. Goretex coats cost £300+ in the 80s The price of stuff was probably at an all time low in 2003/4...eg<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> Meindl Borneo boots £120 back then but we'll over £200 now.</span>

AlpKit are not the cheapest or the best but they make good kit at sensible prices.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-alpkit-filo-down-jackets-back-in-stock/page/1/

plus ça change, eh?

Fifty quid for a down jacket...those were the days. 🙂

No I haven't compared the latest Alpkit jackets, as they've only just come out. But I'm basing my thoughts on my experiences last years products and previous. My issue is, with such a dramatic price rise there should be a corresponding rise in quality, and I haven't seen this,  as others have also said on here. I have everything from Decathlon to PHD products and I'm quite happy to spend big money if I know I'm getting a quality product that will do its job for many years. I do have a current Rab Axion in a rather fetching red, and it is streets ahead of my Filo, which is 2 years old granted, but compared to a colleagues current Filo, its still a winner, and I paid £179 with a discount card I have.

I don't want to be on a witch hunt for Alpkit gear, it's still good stuff. But as a business , I think they've jumped the gun a bit and lost their USP, decent gear at good prices.

Whatever, they’ve lost a customer in me.

But I’m basing my thoughts on my experiences last years products and previous.

My issue is, with such a dramatic price rise there should be a corresponding rise in quality, and I haven’t seen this,  as others have also said on here.

I would have taken a look myself first, before condemning the brand.  You haven't seen a rise in quality because you haven't looked at them yet!  The price of last years gear is irrelevant if we are talking about new designs.

I don't actually disagree with you.  They MIGHT have gone too far, and lost there best selling point.  The price difference between Rab and Alpkit, now makes the Alpkit look like poorer value, based on the specifications alone....I'd just actually look at the products before making a decision and proclaiming you will never buy from them again.

Doesn't matter if they're making higher quality garments to justify their higher price, they are well daft if they're abandoning the "nice but cheap" segment of the market that they've previously been one of the biggest players in.

Personally I buy on fit / function rather than brand, although generally the more expensive brands score better on those criteria as they have more experience and design better kit. Having said that, I really like the design features on Alpkit's Apogee but it looked like I was wearing a bin liner when I tried it on in the Ambleside shop, so I bought the Arcteryx Nuclei instead.

If they've significantly upped the quality and are moving into the pricier end of the market, they should probably rename their jackets or they will be forever associated with whatever the previous version was.

Plus for the vast majority of us they are internet only.  I can visit 2-3 different shops in my lunch break and paw over Rab, montane etc. Then go to a decathlon and check out the cheaper end.

As mentioned above, there needs to be a USP.

They do seem to be launching a ton of new products though, that must take a lot of cost and effort

They're getting close to have a complete range, same as any other major outdoor brand.....

I think it's analgous to Kia / Skoda, start off entering the market cheap and below par and then within 5-10 years no different from any other major brand.

There customer service is still excellent.

My 5 year old down jacket got ripped and I emailed them about a patch kit, they couldn't find any record of my order abut still sent me a patch free of charge.

Isn’t this just the normalising from small business to large business.

Same models, same production runs, better quality, improved production methods, sleeker supply chains, on-time distribution networks, exquisite financial control, improved product lines.

All equates for a sleeker and slim business model.

Sad you can’t get all that by paying cheaply for the products you once loved, but the worlds moved on a bit.

As they move up the scale, someone else will come along to sell cheap, re-branded, sweat-shop goods to the discerning consumer.

Have you checked out On One lately?

Alpkit- they’ve just gone big time, and they’ve got it all wrong.

I guess if you're right, they won't sell many down jackets.

I have a RAB vest from when they were made here. I must have bought it almost 20 years ago. I've looked after it and it's still like new. Really big fill not like these wafer thin jobbies.

That's all, CSB etc.

PS I love Alpkit.

I guess if you’re right, they won’t sell many down jackets.

They seem to always be selling out, so either have very small production runs or are doing OK....

I have a RAB vest from when they were made here. I must have bought it almost 20 years ago. I’ve looked after it and it’s still like new. Really big fill not like these wafer thin jobbies.

That's because of two things, winters are much milder now and also all outdoor brands realises the market for thin duvet jackets is 50x the market for thick ones....

https://www.outsideonline.com/2131216/global-warming-radically-changing-winter-jacket-design

I still like Alpkit and their products always look well thought-out, but for me, they are no longer in the 'no-brainer' price category that they were when they first launched the Gourdon, Hunka, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was more due to a falling pound and my personal spending power than Alpkit's strategy though.

I still think of them warmly as a company.

Bit like Howies in the old days...

The current Filo looks a much better quality product than the older cheap one you are comparing it to. You just need to look at the photos and specification to see that. It uses better down, and the zip is much better quality judging by the photo. I've not yet got to see it in person, but the general quality on alpkit clothes have improved over the years so I imagine this might be the same.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

the seamstress must have been pissed when she was sewing up the cuffs, not a straight line in sight

Or tired at the end of a sixteen hour shift in an overheated factory in <insert sweatshop country name here>. The writing is on the wall for ultra-cheap disposable clothing for the first world.

The writing is on the wall for ultra-cheap disposable clothing for the first world.

You say that, but no sign of it declining significantly yet.

Any number of brands have gone the same way as Alpkit.

Fat-Face, once the preserve of sailing/windsurfing locations, limited number of products and availability. Trendy brand, be-there image, comfortable wear, identity managed.

Expanded, new product lines, expanded locations, increase in brand awareness, expanded to inner city locations, dilution of product quality, increase in products, decrease in trendy brand image, brand hits market peak, brand sell off by owners (who walk away £m’s n pocket) brand falters, quality suffers, price increases to satisfy margins, dilution of product lines, brand image plummets, sales of excess stock in out of town shoppers hell.

Collapse.

Thats the model right there.

decrease in trendy brand image

Isn't it the opposite?  When a manufacturer becomes a trendy high-street name that they begin to prioritise the badge over outright quality?  Cf. North Face.

Could argue that, yes.

But the core market seeks other products that mirror the original image/quality and off they go.. core market moves away and is replaced by having to increase brand awareness and proliferation into other market segments to keep pace with loss of core market. Other market segment to fill the void has to be educated to the brand, the quality and the product lines.. this takes time as the core market built that knowledge up over years of support, so a dip in sales equates to new market fluctuations are new market segment learns the brand.. so to prop up sales expansion into new markets is obtained (based on previous years successive growth) and new finance players invest, and seek return, who seek wider market proliferation and distribution to increase sales margins.. ergo with the intention of increased profits. Brand suffers quality and product supply and down grades quality for faster production, new target market doesn’t like quality and feels brand doesn’t fulfill image and scoots off somewhere else.. brand fails.

Investors take over board, appoint a new broom to reinvent brand and the brand contracts to cope with mass expansion, closes branches and franchises or sells franchises off to Branch Managers on profit only deals  and image and support suffers.

Investors call in capital and walk away with limited returns, brand fails. Original owners living on Ibiza drinking cocktails 24/7 get headhunted to start up shiny new brand.. owners start at the bottom and make brand exclusive and image aware and off the brand goes on yet another lifecycle journey..

Boom!