[Closed] Almost shaking I am so angry

Paedo-B-Gon gene therapy

🙂

Don't suppose you had a hand in naming Anusol, too...

Horrific case and i would be happier with a much longer sentence so that no one ever is at risk of this again so life would fit the crime.
some other comments

Is there anything that kaesae can't spin into conspiratorial nonsense??

For those that are though: do you feel like you have some greater insight/understanding due to it[being a parent], or has it just made you a bit irrational?

The thought of this happening to your own child is so horrific that we either dont think about it or get upset to even contemplate it. Yes these stories have greater effect on me now I am a father than before.
If someone did this to my child you would have one bleeding heart liberal in prison for murder.
Its is undeniably primal, instinctive and perhaps even a base instinct but it is there...you protect your kids its what you do. It is obviously less subjective but I am not sure i would go as far as call it irrational

Don't suppose you had a hand in naming Anusol, too...

I think perhaps you could have phrased that question a little better... (-:

and how exactly do you know that?

and society just wants them 'safe' rather than 'better'

so to say that *every* paedophile in the world, over all history has re-offended is blatant bollocks

OP you could find out if the sentence is within guidelines, if nyes then try to change them through the democratic process etc.

One could write lots. What saddens me is that some of the most vocal admit they only care because they have children. This is no basis on which to sentence scriminals.

Further, the righteous tend to gather and knock anyone who's not saying "string them up" etc. This stifles any thought or rational debate.

Lastly, paedophiles have been victims and have had any chance of the normal functional lives we enjoy taken from them brutally in crimes like this. They are wired up wrong through no fault of their own. Of course they have to take responsibility for their actions, but killing them seems a pretty lazy, barbaric and inhumane response.

Crankboy seems to think the punishment seems fair I'd say by the way the end of his post reads, I'd say being tortured over the remaining period of his life would still be to lenient.

I would have no problem in killing someone who harmed my children like that.

im all for barbarism and inhumanity then.

Wikipedia articles... are notoriously inaccurate

Yes, they are. But that's a world away from [i]actually [/i]being inaccurate.

Lastly, paedophiles have been victims and have had any chance of the normal functional lives we enjoy taken from them brutally in crimes like this. They are wired up wrong through no fault of their own. Of course they have to take responsibility for their actions, but killing them...

*they've [u]normally[/u] been victims, not always, but definitely everyone i've worked with. similar to domestic abuse in that respect!

If this girls grows up to be a sex offender and molests kids, should she be killed?

EDIT - that question is for the 'he deserves to be killed' crowd. not you al! 🙂

colud cut that blokes bollocks off with blunt rusty pinking shears and no anasthetic(then rub salt in )

Further, the righteous tend to gather and knock anyone who's not saying "string them up" etc. This stifles any thought or rational debate.

I don't think it's a matter of knocking anyone for saying that, and I'm not saying that society wouldn't be better of witout these people. I just think it's a wholly unrealistic proposal, so kind of pointless bringing it up, beacuse it ain't gonna happen. Not in Europe, not ever.

I don't see why it should stifle a debate of how to deal with offenders.

al you make a good point but for many the primary goal here is to make sure it does not happen to our kids.

Personally i find the crimes to be crimes against humanity...no one normal would do this kind of crime...without a cure[ not possible iirc] i dont want them out on the streets seriously who would do this ?
How is this just 6 years..i would get more if i was starving to death and did an armed robbery of a shop with a knife.
i would not go a s far as kill but 6 years us about 50 years to short IMHO

Sharia law anyone?

Ok, here's a question for those of the opinion that he shouldn't be allowed to live.

The poor girl victim in this case grows up, and in an amount of time - let's say, 20 years - hits the headlines. She's arrested for child abuse, having savagely beaten and violently sexually assaulted a small child in her care.

What's her sentence? Castration? Lethal injection? Life imprisonment? Therapy and rehabilitation? Counselling? Brain surgery? Flogged and dragged through the streets?

Knowing her history, should we still throw the book at her? What's that say about us if we do? Now, how is that different to the current case?

ton, your choice.

How much thought have you put into your view?

For the "just kill them all" crowd...if a child relative of yours was abused and so grew up to be a paedophile, would you happily see him executed as an adult because of it?

EDIT Junky part of my point is that sentencing should an rational consistent...and not down surely to the victim...or those that love to get indignant in sympathising with her.

lethal injection for anybody repeating my question 😉

kind of pointless bringing it up, beacuse it ain't gonna happen. Not in Europe, not ever.

It's good to discuss occasionally, if only to remind ourselves why that's the case.

I would have no problem in killing someone who harmed my children like that.

What saddens me is that some of the most vocal admit they only care because they have children. This is no basis on which to sentence scriminals.

Although I have a daughter the same age as the poor victim here, I still probably wouldn't support the death penalty if I hadn't seen how this kind of offender can ruin multiple people's lives and pull families apart.

Yes some paedophiles are victims, but many victims of paedophiles do not go on to offend (but still suffer their entire lives).

It's a utilitarian thing I think. Those who offend once are likely to do so again and in cases as serious as this the offender's continued existence is not a risk worth taking.

your entire jobs as a parent is to protect your child , nurture it watch it row

So you're responsible for our successful rowing teams! 😛 😉

So your responsible for our successful rowing teams!

Its so sad it happened for the child and her family.

Questions need to be asked about why and how it was allowed to happen, the problem will be stopping it happening again in the family circle.

Al.......yes i would mate.

I'm wondering if the admission of guilt was part of the reason the sentence was so low? It sounds like he snapped and went out of control (exactly what the string em up merchants are doing?)

Don Simon
Yes just like in the movie, A time to kill.

ton - easily said - your own son?

I have a daughter.
I don't believe in killing.
She knows this.

I don't see how killing someone for harming/killing her would in any way be respecting our relationship and the values I've tried to teach her.

your entire jobs as a parent is to protect your child , nurture it watch it row
So you're responsible for our successful rowing teams!

no you misunderstood me, they are training to be big hitters on here there is nothing they cannot have a row about it, nothing. 🙂

Junky part of my point is that sentencing should an rational consistent...and not down surely to the victim...or those that love to get indignant in sympathising with her.

But druidh...you can't [i]really [/i]lover her then?

EDIT 😉

But druidh...you can't really lover her then?

How do you mean "lover" as a verb here al? 🙂

Collect up all the chav dogs discussed elswhere and feed these kiddy fiddlers to them. Probably televise it on a Saturday evening, better than x factor.

Cripes...add in RLJs and it's a winner!

I'm wondering if the admission of guilt was part of the reason the sentence was so low?

It said as much in the BBC article IIRC; reduced from 8 years to 6 years.

Anyone seen Brass Eye's "Paedogeddon" episode?

I can understand people talking about stringing him up, etc. - it is, undoubtedly, a horrific crime that creates, understandably, emotive responses from people. However, it's all pointless, as we dont have the death penalty in this country. There really is no point just keeping saying it, it's never going to happen. Hora - your comment about 'he must have learning difficulties to do that' is both misguided [i]and[/i] insulting to anyone with or involved with people who have learning difficulties - my little lad has a learning disability, does that mean he'll become a paedophile? Stop talking bollocks, please. And just to dissapoint folk even further, he wont be 'welcomed to prison', he'll be segregated for his own protection. Yes, somebody will probably get to him at some stage, but I very much doubt that there'll be a welcoming comittee. What's the answer then? There really isnt one - we could certainly start by increasing funding for long stay specialised units, but I cant see that happening any time soon. Shit isnt it?

'he must have learning difficulties to do that' is both misguided and insulting to anyone with or involved with people who have learning difficulties - my little lad has a learning disability, does that mean he'll become a paedophile?

Surgeons must be very clever. Therefore, all clever people are surgeons?

I agree with the rest of your post, but you're twisting his words there, which is unfair.

I've got a young daughter and no inclination [i]whatsoever[/i] to follow that link. If reading something like that makes you imagine similar things happening to your own family I can believe that you might become furiously angry. Surely it would be better to avoid similar stories in future?

I agree with the rest of your post, but you're twisting his words there, which is unfair.

Stop talking bollocks, please.

I don't even have to read hora's post (and I haven't) to know that this is more than likely the right thing to say.

re-name these articles of clothing as 'Paedo-bags' and force all convicted child abusers to wear them at all times.. maybe physically grafting them onto the nonces skin..

children could be taught from a young age to avoid them.. and later in life to assault them..

easy peasy

[img] [/img]

Well, seeing as that's what he wrote, I'm not really am I?

Well, ok, you're not twisting his words, you're applying faulty logic in order to take offence at an implied viewpoint which wasn't [i]actually [/i]implied.

I realise that I'm probably being a little sensitive here

Perhaps. But in your shoes I'd probably be a little sensitive too.

All I was meaning was, there are probably any number of reasons to pick on Hora, but I'm not sure that this is one of them.

(-:

barnsleymitch - Member

... However, it's all pointless, as we dont have the death penalty in this country. There really is no point just keeping saying it, it's never going to happen.

That I have to disagree as rules are created by human so it will be up to us to change it again. Politicians as they are will need to win votes and guess what ... I will vote for the ones that have the guts to bring it back. As for EU ... nahhh ... embargo? Send troops to invade UK? They should just mind their own business.

... And just to dissapoint folk even further, he wont be 'welcomed to prison', he'll be segregated for his own protection. Yes, somebody will probably get to him at some stage, but I very much doubt that there'll be a welcoming comittee. What's the answer then?

The answer is in us. We let it happens we need to sort it out again. We can let it be and wish that it does not happen to us or we can drum up some courage by saying ... sort that I am going to say hang the scumbags for his/her heinous crimes and waterboard them for pleasure while at it. Tell the politicians to bring back death penalty for heinous crimes.

There really isnt one - we could certainly start by increasing funding for long stay specialised units, but I cant see that happening any time soon. Shit isnt it?

Yes, there is but just that we prefer to hide behind our whiter than white image and by being on high horse. Oh look we are civilised. Oh look we respect human rights etc. Put it this way there is no loss in having fewer scumbags like them.

Speak to your MP ... just voice your opinion ... no need to be pushy ... let the momentum grow ...

Lord Woolman said it was impossible to say whether the crime would have a long term psychological impact on the victim.

My guess is it might but im no expert

cougar your wrong

hora - it's possible he doesn't know he's doing wrong. He might get a clue though on day one of prison.

POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
hora - Member
He'd have to have learning difficulties for that way of thinking.

I ignored it because it was Hora and low trolling even for him [s]some[/s]most times he should just STFU
I am unclear as to whether he mean people with a LD cant tell right form wrong or he means you would have to have LD's to not realise this was wrong...its possible he is saying you maus have LD to do this but even hora stream of unthinking conscious is not usual that dull witted but he may have meant that
Whichever way you take it he is talking bollox

had it been anyone other than hora I would have replied but he is not worth the effort tbh, excpe t for this aside

Cougar - Why would he have to have 'a learning difficulty' to commit an act like that? I have worked with paedophiles for years, in a variety of secure settings, and here's the thing, they come from all walks of life, some of them have been intelligent, some havent, some of them have been inadequate, some have been raving psychopaths. It's an ignorant misconception to label them as having 'learning difficulties'. I have admitted to being sensitive, but I certainly dont go around looking to take offence at an implied viewpoint. My sons life (and therefore mine) is already difficult enough at times, thank you.

Lord Woolman said it was impossible to say whether the crime would have a long term psychological impact on the victim.

I suspect he will have complete memory loss when he retired ...

Why would he have to have 'a learning difficulty' to commit an act like that?

He's had difficulty in learning that it's wrong to abuse children?

Ach, I don't know. I see where you're coming from, in that "LD" has a pretty specific meaning. I was interpreting it as a PC catch-all term for [i]any[/i] sort of mental dysfunction. Which, of course, it isn't.

I think I need more coffee. Ignore me.

barnsleymitch "... It's an ignorant misconception to label them as having 'learning difficulties'".

Regardless, if they cross the boundary then its good enough to put them out of their existence,.

Rehabilitating those who commit heinous crimes? Why? I have no interest in their future whatsoever nor am I interested in their human rights or to read about them again.

He's had difficulty in learning that it's wrong to abuse children?

shut the **** up

The difficulty is, that in most cases, paedophiles arent able to see that what they do is wrong. In my experience, I've known some paedophiles that were able to see that society viewed their acts as 'wrong', but were unable to internalise that, and sadly, that's as far as I've ever seen things change. What some of the posters on this thread would like to see happen and what does happen are two entirely different things. The best that we can manage at present is to place these people in secure settings and ensure our risk assessments are thorough and robust enough to keep them there. You can talk all you like about the death penalty, but at present, that's all you can do - talk about it.

barnsleymitch - Member

... You can talk all you like about the death penalty, but at present, that's all you can do - talk about it.

Yes, unfortunately that's the case for us keyboard warriors at the moment, let's hope the ball starts rolling.

I wish to see the bringing back of death penalty during my lifetime so let's see. All you got to do is for one nation to suddenly say enough is enough to change the herd mentality.

What type of mother leaves her child alone with a man that might do those things to a child.

I dont let my children out of my sight if i get a bad feeling about something,

so to go to work,and leave your child with this monster, then let relatives pick the child up and take her to nursery, suggest their may be more to it.

i imagine 6 years in jail is a long time, but once a pedophile always a pedophile.

His sexual desires to him, are no different to you or i fancying a tall blonde/brunette, he sees no wrong in what he,s done or he wouldn't have done it.

society thought sees thing in the cold light of day and for this crime their should be no forgiveness,

he should receive all the help he needs to combat his desires, but not the freedom that gives him the wright to act on them.

so In my eyes 6 years is a joke but six years it is.

imo the mums to blame no one else, if you don't no your partner well enough to trust them, would you really leave your flesh and blood in their care?

She wants a good hiding and a serious lesson in how to protect her children the stupid woman.

chewkw - Member
I wish to see the bringing back of death penalty during my lifetime so let's see. All you got to do is for one nation to suddenly say enough is enough to change the herd mentality.

Merchant-Banker

imo the mums to blame no one else, if you don't no your partner well enough to trust them, would you really leave your flesh and blood in their care?

She wants a good hiding and a serious lesson in how to protect her children the stupid woman.

Are you for real?

cynic-al - Member
ton - easily said - your own son?

Al, moreso if it was my son.

Yes.

Its her partner, and she made the decision to leave the poor child in his care,

If she hadn't of left that child with him then none of this would of happened.

Dont get me wrong he's still a pedophile, just one that didn't/wouldn't of got the chance to cause horrific trauma

Im sure if she could make that choice again she would choose differently but the damage is done.

Thank god that the relatives who picked the child up were so upset by her appearance, that they acted on it.

So you want to inflict violence on the woman whos child was assaulted as you blame her. Nice.

shut the **** up

Nice. Did you miss the other half of the post where I admitted I was wrong?

the mums to blame

Without knowing detail, that's impossible to call. For all we know, he was outwardly a perfectly normal, loving father until he snapped one day. Or, he could be a complete nutball and she was negligent in leaving the kid with him. It's entirely possible she was partly to blame, maybe all she was thinking of was her next fix; equally, it's entirely possible that she wasn't.

I wonder how she's feeling right now.

She chose the boyfreind as a partner she trusted him, he broke her trust in a most violent way,both of them will have to live with that forever.

Thing like that happen,and get reported more widely now to sell media space, its sad but people like to read about it, or they wouldnt put it in the media, and thus sell advertising space.

The difficulty is, that in most cases, paedophiles arent able to see that what they do is wrong. In my experience, I've known some paedophiles that were able to see that society viewed their acts as 'wrong', but were unable to internalise that, and sadly, that's as far as I've ever seen things change.

sadly, its the same experience here. and the exact same for my new colleague (we were discussing this subject, not the bbc story, at the end of last week).

on a slightly more reassuring note, there are people who are abused as children and go on to lead a life without inflicting that pain on others, and their strength can change a pattern that damages so many lives.. so before the thread takes another STWesque turn, i'm getting it in there early that not all abused individuals go on to abuse others.

they come from all walks of life, some of them have been intelligent, some havent, some of them have been inadequate, some have been raving psychopaths. It's an ignorant misconception to label them as having 'learning difficulties'.

+1million

The answer is in us. We let it happens we need to sort it out again. We can let it be and wish that it does not happen to us or we can drum up some courage by saying ... sort that I am going to say hang the scumbags for his/her heinous crimes and waterboard them for pleasure while at it. Tell the politicians to bring back death penalty for heinous crimes.

Waterboard them for pleasure??? Yep, what a beacon of morality you are.

lets hope inmates find out and give him the same treatment, dirty pervert should really be shot, just think how little crime there would be if the punishment was accually enough to make people think.

druidh - Member
The death penalty has never gone away. The majority of the worlds population live in countries where capital punishment still takes place. [b]The good news for you is that you therefore have lots of choice about where you'd rather live.[/b]

It has gone away in Europe so what nonsense are you referring? Hello!

No druidh, you do not ask someone to "Go Home" just because you disagree with what they said. Saying nicely but being economical about your true feeling does not help either. You need to get your PC right.

Yes, I know the argument of "go if you don't like it and go live somewhere" sort of argument but then consider this ... lucky you (or the good news for you) you can always vote no to capital punishment (if there is a vote that is) so what are you diarrheating? Are you into some sort of self indulgence for saving those with heinous crimes? Or because you want to portray the importance of "not in my name" kind of argument? Or perhaps you enjoy life with your high horse saviour like whiter than white PC god like civilised attitude that you consider the demise of those committing heinous crimes as an attack on your civilised ideological stance? 😆

p/s: oh ya ... not enough maggots being destroyed in this world ...

My goodness fellas. Did you read that properly.....she was/is a baby. What was done to her has marked her or life in a way she can never understand, she didn't open her eyes for 24 hours?

People like that will never change in the same way an adult looks at an adult and finds them attractive these people see children. For what ever reason they do, they will never change in the same way if you locked me up for six years I'd still find women attractive.

As a society we have a duty to protect the most vulnerable, by doing this he and those like him have chosen to remove themselves from this society and therefore should be removed from it for life. I'm shocked that this has degenerated to such a slanging match, with no real thought about what happened. I had the misfortune to do some research into child protection while doing my dissertation speaking to both the police and social workers among others and the lengths and trust that pedophiles will go to to abuse children is unreal as is the effect on those families and professionals who have to pick up the pieces not to mention those abused.

As a dad myself I can't imagine anything worse happening to my kids, I don't see that this child has had any sort of justice, this person sholud never have te previlige of re joining the community a whole life sentence would be more than justified. I really hope this thread gets closed.

I don't know about these things, but I do know that I can't remember too much, if anything from when I was two years old. I don't know how it would affect someone with this level of trauma.

People like that will never change in the same way an adult looks at an adult and finds thm attractive these people see children. For what ever reason they do, thy will never change in the same way if you locked me up for six years I'd still find women attractive.

I'm not a father and I'm sure I'd feel differently if I was. For those that are though: do you feel like you have some greater insight/understanding due to it, or has it just made you a bit irrational? Genuinely not trying to have a dig, but getting that angry over any news story seems weird to me.

Yeah, probably a bit irrational, I reckon. :O)

I tend to avoid this sort of news nowadays.

don simon - Member

I, on the other hand, do believe that people can be educated and rehabilitated.

Heinous crimes - No.

depends DS yorkshire ripper, Hindley , Brady, Hitler , TJ [ could you change him he is obviously not a criminal] etc

Not everyone can be rehabilitated/educated/changed and even of they were the crimes may be so severe they should still not be released.

Heinous crimes - No.

What about heinous crimes against the English language?

I'm glad I don't live in a society that sinks to the level of those it convicts of the worst crimes. If it was my child who was hurt by someone I would probably react very badly, but I do struggle to understand why people have to personalise a situation that has not and hopefully will never impact on them, I just don't think that's helpful or healthy.

Rather than wade in anymore, I think I'll just repost an experience I had that I mentioned on the Gary Glitter thread, but add that I think that the people out there who do work with sex offenders, murderers and psycopaths deserve more respect than most of those of you calling for retribution and revenge implicity give them.

They do try to treat sex offenders in Prison, and just because you find something arousing doesn't mean you have to realise any thoughts you have into physical actions, just because you fancy brunettes or 6 year old boys, doesn't mean you will abuse them.

You can be sure that there are plenty more people out there who harbour secret desires than actually carry out these fantasies in reality, scary huh? Well no, not really.

Had an eye-opening discussion with the head psycologist at HMP Albany some years ago, I was asking about how they use their IT and he told me about the data-logging from the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_plethysmograph ]penile plethysmograph[/url], to be honest I wish I'd never asked.

They would show the prisoners a powerpoint slideshow of kids in various oufits and measure the response, they would also record the amount of time they looked at each picture.

Basically they would use this to try to show to the prisoner what it was that stimulated them and how to recognise the warning signs and therefore avoid situations that might give them an opportunity to offend again.

Whether they were successful or not I have not idea, it was 10 years ago so I guess things will have moved on, but anything that helps us understand how people tick must be a good thing imo.

druidh - Member

What about heinous crimes against the English language?

Only if you are anal about it.

🙄

Sickening. Hope the poor little lass gets over it.

To the OP, sometimes folk just want to vent a bit of frustration/anger & I'm with you on that. Truly shocking.

Brady, Sutcliffe and other 'high profile' offenders will never get released, despite fairly regular media reports to the contrary. In my experience, prison sentences do little to reduce the risk of paedophiles reoffending, and without wanting to come across as a bleeding heart liberal, I do think that our best option at present is to fund more long stay units, with specialist staff, in order to maintain the safety of all concerned. There is no 'cure' for paedophilia, chemical castration only reduces the mechanics, all the urges are still going to be there.

should be dropped in an Acid bath

There's been some excellent debate on this thread but with some of the comments we've already removed and now the one above advocating violence I'm closing this thread. We can all agree the event was despicable. Let's leave it there at a point of common agreement instead of turning on each other in a deeply ugly way.