[Closed] All those wingeing about public sector workers and pensions

nick1962 - Member
What about business lunches,Xmas parties,putting it on expenses,kickbacks from suppliers,clocking in for one job and getting paid for the whole day on double time etc-Never seen it in all my years in the public sector but that's part of the private sector culture-perhaps explains it's demise......

What. Utter. Garbage.

Most of us do work for decent, fair employers. Our place would love to offer a employer sponsored pension and give everyone a raise, but if the 2012 lineup was priced up 20% to cover that, it wouldn't sell! We could strike if we like, but failed deliveries would half the customer base and we'd all be out of a job in time for Christmas.

Public sector has become fat and bloated. The vast majority of the public don't support the planned strike. If the strike does go ahead, I believe the outcome is more likely to be tougher controls on union activity than another bonus for union members.

What. Utter. Garbage.

I think not. One example-
My in law works for what was a long established succesful British family company bought out by an American multi national.
All of the above goes on-company meetings held at an all expenses paid resort in the Caribbean-where the head honchos hook up with high class hookers on expenses?? I could go on. Suffice to say the British arm of the corporation is now financing the rest of the worldwide operation as it is the only profitable part(surprise surprise) and guess where they are cutting back on staff benefits-yes the UK whilst the corporate board swan around the world in 5* hotels and paying themselves 6 and 7 figure bonuses last year . They also have a plant in Africa where they are raping the local environment and poisoning their workers to fund the (bankrupt)American arm of their operation.
Ain't compassioante capitalism great.

dmjb4 - Member

Public sector has become fat and bloated

I want to challenge the idea that the public sector is somehow synonymous with an underachieving, couldn't-care-less attitude.

You get the impression that those who work in the public sector are burdens on the state rather than dedicated professionals who work hard to improve the quality of people's lives.

Public service - the concept of working for the good of the community - is a high ideal. We see it in our doctors and nurses, our police officers and our soldiers.

But we also see it in many, many areas of our civil service and local government. Yet this is rarely, if ever, acknowledged.

And when I hear Ministers bashing bureaucrats - or declaring that their departments are 'not fit for purpose' - I wish they'd have the decency to admit that very often it's their policies that are at fault, not the people who work for them.

Instead of using public servants as scapegoats we should acknowledge their successes.

The truth is that public servants are privately dedicated to what they do. To them, it's not just work - it's their vocation. Often it's not just their job - it's their life.

Think about what the term "public service" actually means.

It signifies two clear things: that something is being provided for the public, and that it is a service.

Too often these days, there seems to be an automatic and lazy assumption that you get terrible service in the public sector and fantastic service in the private sector.

You regularly hear politicians and commentators going on about "bringing private sector efficiency to public services" - for example sending in private sector 'hit squads' to teach hospitals how to perform better.

There's a widespread assumption that we should always and everywhere encourage the public sector to adopt the techniques and the style of service found in the private sector.

The quality of service that someone gets doesn't depend primarily on whether that service is being provided by the private sector or the public sector.

It depends on a whole range of things that affect the people who are actually delivering the service.

Whether they're well led.

Whether they're motivated.

Whether they have the resources to give good service.

Whether they're trusted to use their personal skills, experience and discretion to do a good job.

We need to understand what lessons the public sector may have for the private sector, instead of the automatic and lazy assumption that it's always the public sector that has to learn from the private.

In my life, I've received amazing service from the public sector - with a quality of care and commitment that you do not always find in the private sector.

ernie

To be fair the last few ministers in charge of our department whether they be Labour or Tory regularly praise our efforts in completing various projects and implementing new government initiatives,achieving challenging targets and delivering excellent cutomer service.
Unfortunately ministerial praise wont pay my fuel bills in my dotage...the pension I have been building all my working life was for that.

I dont get involved in.these threads nowadays as all opinions are already strongly held and unchangable.
Howver i left a well paid private sector job aged 33 to train as a nurse as i wanted to make adifference to the livesof others. To this end i workextremely hard wih dwindling resources and support.
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit not worthy to exist in the same society as you.
I really should consider heading back into my old trade, ut would certainly be better paid and, of course, polymers and resins are far more important than public service, after all it does contibute to the economy.

ernie

To be fair the last few ministers in charge of our department whether they be Labour or Tory regularly praise our efforts in completing various projects and implementing new government initiatives,achieving challenging targets and delivering excellent cutomer service.

Really ? Well they're doing it very quietly......why don't they do it publicly and loudly ?

I'm struggling to recall any minister in this government praising public sector workers.

Nope, can't recall any.

Nope, can't recall any.

During the riots.

(edit: not the bit about the police being crap and getting it all wrong though - obviously)

I suspect that if polymers and resins went on strike, a modern hospital would grind to a halt within minutes.

A modern hospital also needs engineers, plumbers, cleaners and human resource officers to operate. And farmers making food for the doctors and nurses to eat. And truckers to send blood and bandages round the country. And traders, shopkeepers and wedding photographers all paying taxes so that the good doctors and nurses are given money to feed, clothe and house themselves, as they can't be farming, knitting and building whilst with patients.

Who cares - I have to waste a days holiday to look after my children because of this!

Just what part of the Public Sector are you actually targeting
All i would not accept
But funny with no reply to what Dangerous beans has written !

dangerousbeans - Member
I dont get involved in.these threads nowadays as all opinions are already strongly held and unchangable.
Howver i left a well paid private sector job aged 33 to train as a nurse as i wanted to make adifference to the livesof others. To this end i workextremely hard wih dwindling resources and support.
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit not worthy to exist in the same society as you.
I really should consider heading back into my old trade, ut would certainly be better paid and, of course, polymers and resins are far more important than public service, after all it does contibute to the economy.

I agree that the public sector is fat bloated.... in parts-precisely the same parts as in the private sector IMHO.
Not in the bottom three grades where the vast majority of staff in the public sector work and earn from 14,000 up to 23,000 a year, on the "shop floor"
The senior civil service earn big bucks,our head of IT earns over than 250K a year,more than the prime minister and our IT is sh*t-EDS,Capita,Group 4,Trillium etc make a fortune from the tax payer servicing areas of work that were sold off over the years with big bucks government contracts and how much do you think most of their staff get paid about the same as the bottom three grades in the civil service.
So where does all the money go?

dangerousbeans - Member
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit

aleigh - Member

Who cares - I have to waste a days holiday to look after my children because of this!

What can be better than day spent with your children?
Apart from a day on your bike of course 🙂
I'll just be losing a day's pay and maybe spending some time on my bike

During the riots.

You see ? I need to pay more attention, I don't recall any ministers praising public sector workers during the riots. I do recall them praising the courts for dishing out disproportionate sentences though. Perhaps that's what you mean.

I suspect that if polymers and resins went on strike, a modern hospital would grind to a halt within minutes.

A modern hospital also needs engineers, plumbers, cleaners and human resource officers to operate. And farmers making food for the doctors and nurses to eat. And truckers to send blood and bandages round the country. And traders, shopkeepers and wedding photographers all paying taxes so that the good doctors and nurses are given money to feed, clothe and house themselves, as they can't be farming, knitting and building whilst with patients.

Did you smash you face on the keyboard to come up with that? That's the only explanation for such utter crap I possibly think of.

[i]What can be better than day spent with your children?[/i]

Good point although I need my holidays for times like when they're actually meant to be off for half term or are poorly - I can't accommodate these random days on top of the already ridiculous teacher training days!

dmjb4 is a [i]genius[/i].

Perhaps take the teacher (or head, if its been shut in sympathy) in question to small claims court to recover any expenses?

Told you. Genius.

[i]Perhaps take the teacher (or head, if its been shut in sympathy) in question to small claims court to recover any expenses?[/i]

now why didn't I think of that

That's the only explanation for such utter crap I possibly think of.

It's not crap. Although he did leave out builders - without a building there would be no hospital.

And out of the builders the most important and vital trade are the carpenters. The whole hospital hinges on the work of carpenters.

And that is true of schools too, and offices, and houses, and banks, in fact, the whole of society relies on the work of carpenters.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society - just to reflect their importance. They should be on the sort of money which top bankers now enjoy. We owe everything to carpenters. God bless them. And let's hurry up with the revolution. That is all.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society - just to reflect their importance. They should be on the sort of money which top bankers now enjoy. We owe everything to carpenters. God bless them. And let's hurry up with the revolution. That is all.

Beaucoup de lollage.....

Let's not forgot that God made his own son one. Because that's how important they are.
Apart from the ones employed by the public sector obviously - God hates them.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society

There not in London they'll struggle to get £ 75 a day self employed on site

ernie

Our minister sends us global e mails regularly and praised us live on parliament tv at some committe meeting or other earlier this year-these things are just not covered in the media,not sexy enough.
BTW he is a complete tosser 🙂

There not in London they'll struggle to get £ 75 a day self employed on site

You're having a laugh mate. I'm on one thirty daywork rate. I wouldn't stay on a site for more than thirty seconds if someone told me the daywork rate was seventy-five. I've never heard of anyone getting that sort of money.

Would forestry workers not come before carpenters?

I've got an axe....don't need them.

Public sector carpenter? You are way off the pace,the public sector is now much more efficient with all those sort of service contracted out to the super efficient private sector.
If anything goes wrong in our place we log it with our business support person.
Business support contact the building managment company helpline who assess and prioritise the fault and allocate an appropriate deadline.
They then contact the maintainance contractor manager who then comes out and assesses the fault. He then allocates a new deadline for it to be rectified and passes the job onto the maintenance team.
The maintance man then visits,looks at the job,shrugs his shoulders and says we'll have to get outside contractors in to sort that as it's not part of the contract. Our contract managment team then contact the building management contract management team and a million e mails later all parties descend on the office to assess the job again.They eventually reach a compromise on who does what and who pays for what,set a new deadline and various new contractors come in to submit tenders/prices which they do.But then some eagle eyed office clerk reads the small print of one of the contracts and decides that this is a capital project not maintainance so it's back to the drawing board... so months later the heating's still broke but by this time it's summer so who cares...I'm losing the will to live just writing this but you get the picture.

If anything goes wrong in our place we log it with our business support person.
Business support contact the building managment company helpline who assess and prioritise the fault and allocate an appropriate deadline.
They then contact the maintainance contractor manager who then comes out and assesses the fault. He then allocates a new deadline for it to be rectified and passes the job onto the maintenance team.
The maintance man then visits,looks at the job,shrugs his shoulders and says we'll have to get outside contractors in to sort that as it's not part of the contract. Our contract managment team then contact the building management contract management team and a million e mails later all parties descend on the office to assess the job again.They eventually reach a compromise on who does what and who pays for what,set a new deadline and various new contractors come in to submit tenders/prices which they do.But then some eagle eyed office clerk reads the small print of one of the contracts and decides that this is a capital project not maintainance so it's back to the drawing board... so months later the heating's still broke but by this time it's summer so who cares

The market moves in mysterious ways.

Still, the market always knows best.......so three cheers for the market !

dmjb4 - Member
Perhaps take the teacher (or head, if its been shut in sympathy) in question to small claims court to recover any expenses?

How is the hangover this morning? (I hope you were drunk when you typed this)

All those wingeing about public sector workers and pensions
482 posts & 102 voices | Started 3 days ago by cruzheckler | Latest reply from duckman
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ernie_lynch - Member

If anything goes wrong in our place we log it with our business support person.
Business support contact the building managment company helpline who assess and prioritise the fault and allocate an appropriate deadline.
They then contact the maintainance contractor manager who then comes out and assesses the fault. He then allocates a new deadline for it to be rectified and passes the job onto the maintenance team.
The maintance man then visits,looks at the job,shrugs his shoulders and says we'll have to get outside contractors in to sort that as it's not part of the contract. Our contract managment team then contact the building management contract management team and a million e mails later all parties descend on the office to assess the job again.They eventually reach a compromise on who does what and who pays for what,set a new deadline and various new contractors come in to submit tenders/prices which they do.But then some eagle eyed office clerk reads the small print of one of the contracts and decides that this is a capital project not maintainance so it's back to the drawing board... so months later the heating's still broke but by this time it's summer so who cares

The market moves in mysterious ways.

Still, the market always knows best.......so three cheers for the market !

I wouldn't say that was the fault of either public or private sector. It's the people who are responsible for looking after that system who are responsible, regardless of sector. Where I work in the private sector if we came across that kind of ridiculous inefficiency someone would try and tackle it. Either through frustration and a personal desire to get what the work done (as they are accountable) or through wanting to give off impression so they get a payrise/promotion by improving things outside of their immediate area. I Certainly wouldn't just live with it though.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Berm Bandit... firstly well put and secondly tell her it will get better, is she doing primary or secondary?

Thank you. Shes doing Primary in quite a challenged local school. Loves every minute of it even though she got clumped by an OFSTED inspection which downgraded the school and criticised her teaching technique during her third week in the job.

Ref: Enfht

Fella you might be wise to consider some introspection. Unless you are an extremely good actor/writer, which there is every indication that you aren't, all is not well within.

Most rational people know that to stimulate the economy the poorer sections of society need to be given more disposable income. The poor spend on things, the rich just invest.

That is a very interesting (???) observation. We have just had an economic mirage based on consumption and leverage. I would be amazed if merely stimulating consumption was the answer.

There needs to be a redistribution from rich to poor for partly these reasons
.

Sorry, this seems to be absurd. There is an argument for redistribition based on equality, but the logic here ie, poor people spend, rich invest, leaves me gobsmacked.

Teamhurtmore: sorry to drag this up from the dead, but if you're reading here is a good article on exactly this subject:

[url= http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/11/28/767601/why-we-should-lift-the-tax-burden-on-working-people/ ]Why we should lower the tax burden on working people[/url]

Ref: Enfht

Fella you might .......

Don't you not knocking Enfht 😐 In fact, I would like to extend a warm and sincere thank you to Enfht and dmjb4, for having enlighten everyone to just how daft, dense, and dimwitted, right-wing Daily Mail readers/Tories can be. Without their help and cooperation my job might have been a bit harder.

Thanks once again lads, and there's a tenner in the post for each of you as agreed 8)

ernie you seem to be quoting some sort of poor management analogy,
I dont see how the private sector is at fault for your organisations mismanagement,
But its always nice to blame someone else.
I dont see private sector being particularly well managed either.

however this pensions debate is driving a wedge between public sector and private sector.
Union and non-union.

ernie you seem to be quoting some sort of poor management analogy,
I dont see how the private sector is at fault for your organisations mismanagement,
But its always nice to blame someone else.
I dont see private sector being particularly well managed either.

I was quoting nick1962, see previous page. I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but your comment probably needs to be directed at him.

Don't you not knocking Enfht In fact, I would like to extend a warm and sincere thank you to Enfht and dmjb4, for having enlighten everyone to just how daft, dense, and dimwitted, right-wing Daily Mail readers/Tories can be. Without their help and cooperation my job might have been a bit harder.

Thanks once again lads, and there's a tenner in the post for each of you as agreed

😆

Whatever the Govt does manage to squeeze out of the public sector at the end of all this, you can bet your boots that ten minutes later it will be the justification that private sector companies are looking for to reduce their own employees' pay and conditions.

And meanwhile those at the top will be congratulating themselves on how they have cut costs and increased productivity, will carry on awarding each other even higher bonuses for being so good at taking "tough decisions" and the circle will be complete and the whole cycle will start again.

Funny thing perception.

Reading back you lot got all upset by me taking the piss out of your workshy ethics.

And Ernie you STILL go quiet when I mention your hero Che the terrorist.

Bermboy...not now Kato!

rightplacerighttime - Member
Whatever the Govt does manage to squeeze out of the public sector at the end of all this, you can bet your boots that ten minutes later it will be the justification that private sector companies are looking for to reduce their own employees' pay and conditions.

you are about ten years behind the curve, most people in the private sector don't have a defined benefit pension and those that do probably have had the scheme ammended already, those on money purchase schemes are paying in considerably more than the public sector to get less and at risk.

Teamhurtmore: sorry to drag this up from the dead, but if you're reading here is a good article on exactly this subject:

Why we should lower the tax burden on working people

Thanks for the link. I had missed that. Interesting points, and certainly I agree with lowering tax, changing tax thresholds etc. But my distinction and the one that is also raised here is the idea of encouraging leveraged consumption. Plus one of my points above, was the lack of logic in the argument that distribution of income from the rich to the poor was good because the rich would invest it whereas the poor would spend. I still think that that is absurd, sugar candy economics.

you are about ten years behind the curve, most people in the private sector don't have a defined benefit pension and those that do probably have had the scheme ammended already, those on money purchase schemes are paying in considerably more than the public sector to get less and at risk.

And you didn't actually bother to read what I wrote.

Where did I say pensions?

I specifically didn't say that.

Try to see the bigger picture.