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richmtb - that's all wrong - jambalaya will set you straight with the evidence from his own mind which contradicts all known facts and is therefore correct. In his mind.
he will then tell you how he is always correct on all things
Jambalaya earlier
WHO THE MAN
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"Make them accountable for lies and broken promises, and we'll get better representation."
We could not handle the truth and neither could the politicians (of all types). We all participate in the constant lie that is our system (we do it willingly). It may be the best we have but its all still built on fairy stories of growth, spend and the planet will go on and on, pay back time is getting closer and there will be a lot of pain for most of us (or your kids).
@richmtb, no doubt Carmichael has been a naughty boy and very foolish. At the very least he should have leaked the memo in a way not so directly attributable to him as the source, that's a rookie mistake. As said above politics is a very grubby business.
Kicking Carmichael to the kerb isn't going to make any electoral difference to the Lib Dems other than a negative one. The Lib Dems will do all they can to hold onto him/the seat.
jambalaya - MemberHe's a hero. He has exposed the doublespeak of Nicola Sturgeon.
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Kicking Carmichael to the kerb isn't going to make any electoral difference to the Lib Dems other than a negative one.
Satire or confused thinking
Its still so hard to tell with your posts
[b]Not[/b] Kicking Carmichael to the kerb isn't going to make any electoral difference to the Lib Dems other than a negative one.
FTFY
There's no way the enquiry cost £1.4M by the way - that's double the cost of the enquiry into the cost of the Holyrood building, and that enquiry produced a big book at the end of it.
The £1.4M number seems to have been made up by a Labour MP.
@richmtb, no doubt Carmichael has been a naughty boy and very foolish. At the very least he should have leaked the memo in a way not so directly attributable to him as the source, that's a rookie mistake. As said above politics is a very grubby business.Kicking Carmichael to the kerb isn't going to make any electoral difference to the Lib Dems other than a negative one. The Lib Dems will do all they can to hold onto him/the seat.
see? told you.
Any mention of Carmichael denying all knowledge of the memo? Nope, what about instigating a public inquiry at a cost of over £1M to find the source of the leak that he knew was himself? nope, how about admitting telling porkies after the election but just before said inquiry announced that he was a lying little toadie? Not worth the mention, after all it's not like you would expect honourable behaviour from your choice of parliamentary representative is it?
Hmm, the Lib Dems might get sent to bed with no pudding at Royal Rumble Holyrood 2016 if they don't clear this up. Tombstoning their sympathy vote...
Well according to one former senior Lib Dem [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32881672 ]telling porkies is ok 'cos everyone does it[/url]
I predict more lost deposits than MSPs next year.
According to the BBC, that funding appeal to challenge his appointment in the court of session has hit £10k, jacket / shoogly nail...
As posted above hard to imagine how you can spend £1-£1.4m on an inquiry in such a short period of time. I call b/s on that figure.
How is the cost of the inquiry relevant? He lied regardless
If it cost 10p, it's 10p of taxpayer's money he chose to waste already knowing the answer. Insisting on calling an investigation into yourself so you can be found guilty of the offence you knew you did is just the height of absurdity, [i]except[/i] when it's just before a general election and you know admitting to your dirty tricks now will probably lose you your seat. Whereas if you do it later you can just try and brazen it out.
The £1.4 million figure does seem high- I'd like to see a reliable source- but it just isn't very important.
This is from The Cabinet Office guidelines on the 2015 general election
link https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment...3. During the Election period, the Government retains its responsibility to govern, and Ministers remain in charge of their Departments
This would imply that Carmichael was a "minister" when on, April the 5th he denied any knowledge of the memo prior to its publication . That he was minister when Sir Jeremy Heywood informed him there was going to be an enquiry.
http://www.channel4.com/news/alistair-carmichael-was-behind-leaked-nicola-sturgeon-memo
In the same interview Carmichael claims he would have considered it a resigning matter if he were still a minister. It is clear that all mps become candidates once the campaign begins but it seems that ministers still remain in charge of their department and are therefore" ministers" Yet Carmichael has not resigned
mcj78 - Member
According to the BBC, that funding appeal to challenge his appointment in the court of session has hit £10k, jacket / shoogly nail...
£15,000 now. 🙂
The LibDems are mad if they support him. It will cost them any chance of a resurgence in the Scottish elections next year. Wipeout. Or maybe, like the Tories they have given up in Scotland?
As posted above hard to imagine how you can spend £1-£1.4m on an inquiry in such a short period of time. I call b/s on that figure.
... but not on his being a lying little toady? Good-oh, maybe you can explain what's heroic about telling lies and denying telling lies and keeping denying it until you get caught? Is that the moral code you live your life by?
So, at that appeal for funds, £20.6k at 2130: people are voting with their wallets.
Over £20,000 in less than one day. Boy, he is popular in the wrong sort of way!
It is going to stuff the LibDems in Scotland long term unless we see a resignation. Their appeal has always been as the principled party, and this little episode tops the job they did on themselves in coalition.
Lib dems sent to bed with no black pudding?
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RIP LIB SCOT DEM 2016
3 days and 111 posts late THM
THM is the pudding
No Gordi - merely watching the debate with interest and more than a little amusement. Dislike leaking, detest lying, deplore hypocrisy - all are evident in this case. Little credit anywhere. Sorry state of affairs but politicians seem to be one of the few parties that are free to lie without as sanction other than the ballot box.
I hope there is an application of universal principles at work here though. Doesn't look like it so far.
@gordimor - I would imagine he was referring to resigning as a Minister and not as an MP.
he did not resign as a minister he was sacked by the electorate who would have sacked him fully had they know the truth about him and his moral code.
That is the main issue here and why he lied he did it as even he knew he was unelectable without it
We do have a serious issue with politicians honesty and issues like this do not help the situation one bit. A person of principle would neither have done this nor clung to power after having been caught.
Its pretty obvious why the general populus have such low opinion of politicians when they do this. he should be dragged before an ethics committee and sacked as would most people, including a Civil servant for example, in a job had they done this.
It shames the country that he can remain in office to "serve"
epicyclo - Member
Over £20,000 in less than one day. Boy, he is popular in the wrong sort of way!It is going to stuff the LibDems in Scotland long term unless we see a resignation. Their appeal has always been as the principled party, and this little episode tops the job they did on themselves in coalition.
It just highlights how far removed from public opinion certain politicians (parties even...) are these days - to think he could get away with that level of deception then lie about it, then lie about lying about it, then go along with an inquiry into the whole shambles & only hold his hands up after being caught rotten by that very inquiry doesn't bear thinking about... especially after alienating much of the party support (in Scotland especially) with the whole tory coalition...
£27400 😉
edit: now under police investigation [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/26/police-investigate-alistair-carmichaels-false-denials-over-memo-leak ]Guardian [/url]
Does the police investigation now limit the medias' freedom to comment, or would that only be if it went to court? If yes, it might be an astute move on someone's part, though not in the electorate's interest.
The campaign needs to raise £60k as per their own page linked below.
They need to file by May 29, it's not clear if they need all the money by then - I would say not as they could file then withdraw
[url= https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story ]Indiegogo crowdfunding page[/url]
ambalaya - Member
@gordimor - I would imagine he was referring to resigning as a Minister and not as an MP.
That was my point.The Cabinet Office guidelines state that ministers are still in charge of their department during the election campaign which makes Carmichael a minister when he lied about having no knowledge of the memo till it was published.When the report came out Carmichael admitted that he was wrong and said that if he had been a minister at the time he would have considered it a cause for resigning. Yet he was a minister and he did not resign.
So there's the leak and the lying?
Which is the issue that he would resign for? Both or one of them? Or something else? Perhaps the waste of money?
Is the case that he should resign for deliberately lying and also asking a deputy to cover for him?
Given their small size, the Libs have had some proper rum buggers over the years haven't they?
Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Oaten, Huhne, Rennard, Hancock etc.
WTF is it with Michael White's moustache?
This "well, everybody lies" line really isn't helping is it?
[quote=bencooper ]WTF is it with [s]Michael White's[/s]Victor Meldrew's moustache?
David Mundell also gave a very carefully worded answer when asked what he knew about it:
[quote=scotroutes opined]bencooper » WTF is it with [s]Michael White's[/s]Victor Meldrew's moustache?
I DONT BELIEVE IT
So the Grauniad's Ass Ed thinks it's OK to lie, because everyone does it. That's them finished for me. I'll stop accepting their freebie in Waitrose.
@ben, Mundell clearly knew the memo existed based upon his reply. I don't think that would be a surprise as the memo was pretty explosive politically even if for me and I would imagine many others its contents are no surprise at all.
You can imagine what you want as you have clearly demonstrated on this thread/issue.
the main problem is you cannot prove a word of what you have imagined as it at odds with the facts.
I think its safe to say most folk , including the person who wrote the memo and all those present, dont think its true.
If this wont convince you then nothing will
It really is JHJ type debating here.
Apparently a couple of legal bods have offered their services free of charge so it appears the legal action will be going ahead to have his appointment overturned sooner rather than later...
politicians seem to be one of the few parties that are free to lie without as sanction other than the ballot box.
^This, sadly.
There's no sanction for politicians who spout the most brazen, bare-faced lies. At the very least, they should be obliged to forfeit their generous pension, allowances and future eligibility for holding a company directorship if they've been found to have supplied wilfully false or misleading information.
Perhaps that's a good basis for an online petition?
There's no sanction for politicians who spout the most brazen, bare-faced lies.
Well actually there is, it's the same as for anyone else. The one big exception is the "parliamentary privilege" legal immunity granted to elected politicians in Parliament. But other than the protection given to politicians speaking on the floor of the House of Commons they are subjected to the same sanctions as anyone else. Several politicians have served prison sentences in recent times for lying.
I think its safe to say most folk , including the person who wrote the memo and all those present, dont think its true.
Not what I've read. Most think she said something along those lines, eg she preferred Cameron over Miliband as a leader and that if the Conservatives where to win it would be good for the SNP
I think the chances of the election result being overturned in the courts are pretty minimal, let's see.
Several politicians have served prison sentences in recent times for lying.
But not enough. One notable politician told the biggest lie that's been told in decades and he still walks free.
Also, a number of politicians seem hell bent on covering up the sexual abuse their peers dished out to children.
I'd respond that far too many are telling lies without fear of sanction.