[Closed] Alistair Carmichael, catspaw or lying toad.

It's all a plot to get Wee Eck back in the spotlight 😉

Junky - 1.4M alleged on the investigation. Plus there may be room for legal action under 'Representation of the People'. But I read someone needs the funds to risk it.

I'm failing to understand how someone who has been up to no good, and then LIED about it, then ADMITTED LYING, can hold on to their position.

amazed the dodgy git hasn't been booted yet, wtf is the liberal party doing saying he will not face party disciplinary proceedings!!!!!!!!!

I suspect that they do not want to lose another seat and go down to just 7. Just shows how ****ed up their thinking is, they don't see it is exactly this kind of lack of principles that has decimated their electoral support.

The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

The Grauniad seems to think it could result in a By-Election...

The Grauniad is wrong - the Recall of MPs Act hasn't actually come into force yet.

as has been mentioned in various other places on the net.

The FACT he lied about this is surprisingly absent from most stories on this....

Another interesting question is how much did Mundell, at the SO at the time and Carmichael's successor, know about it?

bencooper - Member
Another interesting question is how much did Mundell, at the SO at the time and Carmichael's successor, know about it?

Or, seeing as it is such a small operation, how could he not have known about it?

He now has the backing of his party leader in Scotland. Now why were they almost wiped out in the polls? Was it because they e shown themselves not to be worthy of our trust?

He now has the backing of his party leader in Scotland. Now why were they almost wiped out in the polls? Was it because they e shown themselves not to be worthy of our trust?

They're desperate - if they have to go back to the polls they'll be history in Scotland, maybe for ever.

Or, seeing as it is such a small operation, how could he not have known about it?

Precisely - they were working side by side, cooperated during the Referendum, and Carmichael had it for three weeks before it was leaked. What's the chances he kept a juicy bit of material like that to himself?

They must really have thought they were on a winner with that one.

The fear and smear tactics worked in the referendum so they didn't bank on that having innoculated us from believing anything they produced in the election.

And what is a civil servant doing releasing political material to the press? Surely that's for the political staff. The civil servant should be sacked IMO.

[url= http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2014-15/recallofmps.html ]Should there be moves afoot to trigger this? and ironically wasn't it one of Clegg's babies?[/url]

There's a good post here...

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-naked-liar/#more-71358

... by Eric Joyce (yes, that Eric Joyce). It's worth reading. One point is that, if he doesn't stand down for re-election, the SNP will have a stick with which to beat the Libs until the next election.

Epic Euan Roddin was a Special Advisor which is a fixed term political appointment and not technically a part of the civil service. [url= https://edinburgheye.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/shetland-and-orkney-and-alistair-carmichael/#more-16856 ]good blog here[/url]

Epic Also although the act of parliament enabling constituents to recall mps has passed both houses certain statutory instruments it requires are not in place yet and it effectively doesn't become law till they are in place. So it looks like Carmichael can get away without being recalled

gordimhor - Member
Epic Euan Roddin was a Special Advisor...

Thanks. That just makes him a professional liar rather than a corrupt civil servant then. 🙂

Also although the act of parliament enabling constituents to recall mps has passed both houses certain statutory instruments it requires are not in place yet and it effectively doesn't become law till they are in place. So it looks like Carmichael can get away without being recalled

Damn! Although it's possible the Labour party may have even more desire to do him than the SNP, and he's probably made a few enemies on the Tory side, so it's still possible... 🙂

His locals are upset:

A crowd funding appeal will be launched tomorrow as Alistair Carmichael has said he has no intention of resigning. This will be to fund a petition to the court of session which will be lodged on Wednesday this week. If everyone who has liked this page dontates £1 we will have the £6000 needed to lodge with the Court our case.

Lying toe rag ( like so many, he has just been caught).
He should go, and be investigated for fraud IMO.

If we prosecuted a few more public figures for all sorts of wrong doings, we may have half a chance of weeding out the cheats, frauds and lying toads.

epi - linky please

slowoldgit - Member
epi - linky please

Tried to copy the link. It's on Yes Orkney's FaceBook Page

So I've copied their whole post.

If anything comes of it, then there will be a crowdfunding appeal happening real soon.

Farming4Yes shared Yes Orkney's post.
12 hrs ·
Watch this space....if you want to make a statement and define exactly who is in charge!
I always thought that mostly we had little say in who represented us generally, in Westminster....but this last election, and the Scottish one before, have made me realise that together we have the power to make changes.
For the first time in my life, I have a politician, an MP, in Westminster, that I helped choose, select, and vote for....that is something special!
But I also believe if he doesn't deliver, or falls below the standards I expect, or feel are my own, then I can do something about it.
In the case of Orkney and Shetland, I don't think I would accept the money wasted from my taxes, and yours, spent on an enquiry that was expensive and pointless.
For a former solicitor, former Secretary of State ( just) and representative of supposed moral standards to the people of the Islands, of Scotland, and indeed, the island of Islay, birthplace of my Father, to not just authorise a smear champagne, with international involvement, during an election, then lie to deny it, making little of its importance, and then finally come clean WHEN HE WAS CAUGHT after an expensive enquiry......with the idea he could just get a wee telling off ( and okay, so he disnae get his severance, but that's a minor part of his yearly income).... Sorry, this to me screams " professional and cynical Foul" if ye like the Jim Murphy way of analogy. that's where ye ken fine the risks and the reward, and do it for the rewards......
Red Card offence.....my opinion, he should be sent off!
Especially as he has no intention of going!
So I'm supporting the crowdfunder once Orkney and Shetland get going.....I still mind find fine Alastairs wee Twain quote about reports of his death being exaggerated.....oh really?
There are a few more Twain quotes I could send to him..."politicians and diapers must be changed often, and fir the same reason" and....."Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it".
DFG

Yes Orkney
A crowd funding appeal will be launched tomorrow as Alistair Carmichael has said he has no intention of resigning. This will be to fund a petition to the court of session which will be lodged on Wednesday this week. If everyone who has liked this page dontates £1 we will have the £6000 needed to lodge with the Court our case. More details later.

Did I miss something? Did a politician tell a lie? I'm shocked!

Let them that's never lied cast the first request for a resignation. Also let those who condem (see that) be measured by the same standard.

I suspect that Mr Carmichael will be on his way soon due to the pressure and complete crash in his reputation and rightly so. To listen to some clamoring for his head, it would leave me to suspect he is the whipping boy for them not being on the winning side at this election or perhaps its because he was formerly a minister in the last government.

The only party I'd trust not to tell me a lie is the Green Party

mt - Member
Did I miss something? Did a politician tell a lie? I'm shocked!
...

Yes, but it's the problem of us not having any recourse if they do.

Make them accountable for lies and broken promises, and we'll get better representation.

It looks like there may be a chance of making Carmichael accountable for this particular bit of deliberate deceit, and the next few days will see if that's possible. There's an attempt to crowdfund a legal challenge.

If it works, it will put all our politicians on their toes.

We win.

He's a hero. He has exposed the doublespeak of Nicola Sturgeon. Of course she wanted Cameron as Prime Minister as it serves the SNP agenda of "nasty Westminster and Scotland didn't get the Government it voted for"

I may have been inoculated by too much British politics*, but this seemed to me to be intermediate-level SPADing and leaking, rather than something grandly malevolent.

And I continue to find it very plausible that the SNP are delighted to have a Tory government, whatever they say or said...

*and The Thick Of It

jambalaya - Member

He's a hero. He has exposed the doublespeak of Nicola Sturgeon. Of course she wanted Cameron as Prime Minister as it serves the SNP agenda of "nasty Westminster and Scotland didn't get the Government it voted for"

So it is ok to do the things you often accuse the SNP of as long as it is attacking the SNP? Neat double standard there,which you will no doubt ignore.

No need to ignore anything, what Carmichael did pales into insignificance in comparison to the lies pedaled by the SNP

Sturgeon absolutely made the remark, no doubt about it at all in my mind.

no doubt about it at all in my mind.

And we all no how departed from reality that is.

Sturgeon absolutely made the remark, no doubt about it at all in my mind.

You must be the French Ambassador then, and I claim my Five Euros please.

Inside Jambalaya's head:

[i]Those minutes are an aide-mémoire
for us.

They should not be a reductive record
of what happened to have been said,
but they should be more a full record of
what was intended to have been said.

I think that's the more accurate version,
don't you?[/i]

He's a hero. He has exposed the doublespeak of Nicola Sturgeon

[img] [/img]

Sturgeon absolutely made the remark, no doubt about it at all in my mind.

To then go on about SNP lies whilst doing this

is this an episode of Brass Eye?

you have just replaced JHJ as the Forums the person least likely to listen to evidence/ process facts.
FFS this is not even ambiguous as the people who did it raised doubts and /or admitted it was not true

Not sure if trolling or stupid here tbh as that is a somewhat strange view you have taken utterly at odds with all the facts and is frankly, untenable in the extreme.
WOW there really is no point debating with you as facts dont matter to you.

Careful Jambalaya, when the SNP lie about things and then waste taxpayers money trying to cover it up, then even more taxpayers money on an 'independent' inquiry that coincidentally clears them of all wrongdoing - they are not lying, they are only giving "muddled and potentially confusing" answers

WOW there really is no point debating with you as facts dont matter to you.

[i]We have all the facts on this we need.
We don't need any more facts.[/i]

Okay, I'll stop doing "In The Loop" quotes now 😉

wrongdoing

?

😆

I'll have what he's drinking, thanks

Seriously who cares, politician lied a bit big deal. Let his constituency decide at the next election if they want to keep him. Even if he stood down and the SNP won another seat it would change little in the grand scheme of things.

The only sad thing is the wipe out of a party that challenged the big 2 on proper liberal issues, which has been replaced by a Me, Me, Me party that is authoritarian despite the claims of being progressive.

JY, thanks for posting the letter but I heard at the weekend a quote attributed to him that said he was 100% certain he had recorded the conversation correctly. It is absolutely in the SNPs interest to have a Tory government as that furthers their agenda. They don't care about short term or even long term pain for Scotland if they can get what they want.

EDIT: JY the letter doesn't say she didn't make the comment, it says the "details" where not correct, that's vague wishy-washy nonsense. Typical politicians response.

And we all no how departed from reality that is.

As an aside I need to dig out the Man U thread as I bet @binners (?) £10 they wouldn't finish in top 4, more painfully I have to concede a victory to JY as we have a similar for honour bet.

I heard at the weekend a quote attributed to him

How was this quote recorded? Was it translated into Albanian, written on a beer mat, and then leaked to the Telegraph? 😉

You're just doing a slightly more sophisticated version of "it stands to reason", "I heard from a bloke in the pub", and the old favourite "well, they would say that wouldn't they".

MSP don't you find it interesting that on all the major issues debated here like the Scottish Referendum, the General Election and the various Middle East threads that I have been on the side of the argument which has turned out to be the correct/winning one ?

Should you not just tell us that "The truth is out there sweaties"(copyright THM)Bearing in mind some of the pish you and Ninfan spouted on the indy thread...annexing Faslane anybody? I would take issue with that statement. Your hatred of the SNP is kind of getting you lumped with the right wing JHJ mentioned above.

What the person wrote down is 100 % accurate - they did say what was reported
However what they said was not true
Why am i Having to explain this? Its basic stuff

MSP don't you find it interesting that on all the major issues debated here like the Scottish Referendum, the General Election and the various Middle East threads that I have been on the side of the argument which has turned out to be the correct/winning one ?

I have reported this accurately. This has not made this statement true. It really is basic stuff this. Hearsay that the person raises doubts about that is denied by the people present cannot ever be considered true unless its you or JHJ.

The internet often throws up these examples where you just cannot decide if the post is a satirical gem of Chris Morris/ Brass eye bad aids genius or if the poster is just wallowing in self delusion.
This is what he JHJ says when what he is talking is utter bobins and his views are irrational and at odd with the facts.
Anyone can always be right all you have to do is ignore facts and ignore the fact everyone else is disagreeing with you and just keep pretending you get things right

And now the good Sir Malcolm says it's ok because all politicians tell lies. Would he have said that before he retired? (edit) That's essentially the former Boss Liberal admitting the lie.

They'll have to do something to regain trust before the Hollywood elections.

Seriously who cares, politician lied a bit big deal.

Call me naive*, but I do not believe all politicians set out to tell lies, Tony Blair excluded. Sure, some are economical with the truth, suggest things otherwise, spin negatives into positives but tell outright lies, no.

This is different. He could have suggested this at hustings and on the doorsteps, and his constituents could have weighed it up, but to hold back and plant untrue information and then deny it for cynical political expediency undermines the man, his office, profession and his constituents. The moment an inquiry was raised costing what £1.5 million (how can a couple of phone calls be so expensive BTW), he knew he would be found out, but calculated he would be safely re-elected and back at the trough.

He is not fit for office and has to go now. It should not be his decision to collect 67k for 5 years and his ministerial pension, and then see what his constituents regard him. I don't care who is re-elected but it won't be him and his lies rewarded.

*Hi, I'm naive...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

If you want to help the legal case

MSP don't you find it interesting that on all the major issues debated here like the Scottish Referendum, the General Election and the various Middle East threads that I have been on the side of the argument which has turned out to be the correct/winning one ?

I find it interesting that you believe your fantasy is reality.

Ignoring jambalya's sophistry for a minute...

1) Carmichael authourised the leaking of confidential document concerning the contents of a conversation that took place between the French ambassador and the first minister. The memo questions its own veracity in the text but Carmichael chooses to leak it anyway believing it sufficiently damaging to the SNP to warrant being leaked.

2) He then denies having any knowledge of the leak or the memo prior to reading about it in the Telegraph, this is a flat out lie

3) He then organises a public inquiry to find out the source of the leak, the inquiry cost in the region of £1.4 million pounds

4) He finally admits culpability just as the inquiry was about to report naming him as the source of the leak.

Point 1 is a dirty political tactic but slinging mud in a political campaign is nothing new, choosing to use such weak ammunition against your opponent marks him out as not a particularly savvy operator, but then he a Lib Dem so that makes sense.

Points 2 and 3 are damning though. He's lied, then he's lied about lying. Not only that he's not actually very good at lying as he's had to admit it once he's been found out. So he's not even good at being a lying shitehawk.

Now the Lib Dems have said its fine as we are all liars!

Thing is if they have any hope of any small electoral recovery ( by that I mean actually managing to get a couple of MSP through using the list system at the next Holyrood election ) then they need to kick Carmichael to the kerb as fast as they can.

As it is they will finish 5th behind the Greens