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Given what they say about folk living in glass houses, it is ironically amusing to recall that salmond was proposing a conservatory extension to the official residence. Who would have removed the stones from his pockets?
The bare faced cheek of a guy who appears to have done the same thing about legal opinion re EU, plan B, the nature of currency and sent his deputy to cover for him is breathtaking if not unexpected.
Two rules of engagement
The ends always justifying the means
Do as I say, not as I do
Did he leak lies attributed to his opposition about those things, or just voice an opinion you don't agree with?
MSP, my position is clear. To repeat
Dislike leaking, detest lying, deplore hypocrisy - all are evident in this case
What is not clear or apparent,
I hope there is an application of universal principles at work here though.
Little or no credit anywhere in this debacle. Still, dear Nicola got what she wanted or was it other way round?
Most
think
something along those lines
eg
You start multiplying these variables together and it doesn't look anywhere near "I have no doubt" which you said earlier in the thread. Why have you decreased your previous level of certainty then jambalaya?
MSP, my position is clear.
Yes you are making up stories because you do not like Salmond, you are accusing him of lying because you disagree with his political position, you are lying and failing to hold up the ideals you are demanding.
Most think she said something along those lines
No one thinks this except you NO ONE _ re read this thread everyone mocked you.
No offence but it is near delusional to claim that anyone thinks what that memo said is true including the authour 🙄 To claim most think is true is bonkers/JHJ levels.
Can you please just stop saying its true when he apologised he admitted it was not true.
Well since his comments on taking (or not) legal advice on the issue of EU membership is a matter of public record we can each make our own minds up, can't we?
I will let you put the stones back in his pockets then!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scotland-office-memorandum-leak-cabinet-office-inquiry-statement
Cough
Things I've seen elsewhere, which I don't know much about, but am inclined to believe...
1. The business of government continues right up until they jack it in or whatever, so ministers etc are still in post. So he was still in the job when he said he wasn't. That's an extra lie, and him a solicitor.
2. There are two different writing styles in the memo as published. The first part being measured precise english as one would expect from a civil servant, the second, other and different.
I'll leave this with you.
I think you both have a point
THM is undeniably correct that AS lied about that
However MSP has a point that we are on a thread about another MP lying and all you have done is tell us how much AS/SNP lies and not commented on the MP [ if you have I missed it - have you commented on the issue we are discussing?] caught lying - you are doing this due as you are politically motivated by your contempt for AS /the SNP and you seem determined to turn any thread into a SNP / AS bashing attack.
Many of us pointed out that all politicians lie and you admit your views on AS are clouded and here we have another MP lying and yet you fail top comment except to tell us all how bad a liar AS is
Score draw as you both have a point.
Need some strepsils THM?
Can you please just stop saying its true when he apologised he admitted it was not true.
How could Carmichael reliably say it was not true? He wasn't there when it was alleged to have been said.
Saying it wasn't true is as much of a lie as saying it was true!
Why on earth would the French Consul General, in a confidential discussion with a British civil servant, suggest it had been said if it hadn't? What did he have to gain from it?
Even if you try and rely on 'lost in translation' (was there even a translator there? The French Ambassador seems fairly proficient in English, though I don't know about Sturgeons French oral skills) then there must have been some discussion along those lines.
re read this thread
This thread is hardly representative of public opinion. Quite a lot of people think she said that or something very similar. Not least the person who wrote the memo.
IMO Carmichael tried to do a mega apology including saying he didn't think it was true (which actually is not what he said, see my earlier post) just to try and make it go away
Quite a lot of people think she said that or something very similar. Not least the person who wrote the memo.
We're into angels on the head of a pin territory here. "Quite a lot of people think" is not the strongest foundation for holding up anything to scrutiny.
Its also a straw man.
The issue is the leaking of the memo and the subsequent lies. The veracity or otherwise of the memo is largely irrelevant.
Its also not most which was what he said so he also moved the goalposts.
and confessed that she’d rather see David Cameron remain as PM (and didn’t see Ed Miliband as PM material). I have to admit that I’m not sure that the FM’s tongue would be quite so loose on that kind of thing in a meeting like that, so it might well be a case of something being lost in translation.
Only you could think that this is someone not raising any doubts about the accuracy of the comment and wholeheartedly supporting it as true. Its not really possible to take this seriously and even JHJ would not be this daft.
BRILLIANT 😆
Its hard to take you serious tbh.
Perfectly happy with my stance
Dislike leaking, detest lying, deplore hypocrisy - all are evident in this case. Little credit anywhere. Sorry state of affairs...
Completely consistent. I dislike leaking and detest lying - AC guilty as charged. No excuses. No ambiguity. He should take full responsibility.
I watched with interest and without comment (as Gordi noted) until the blatant hypocrisy of AS' position and those who chose to condone his behaviour became too much. Oh and the factual errors re what people are saying hence the link to the government website.
Thanks for your concern Gordi, but I will decline your kind offer.
Stands corrected Apologies as I missed that post.
I do agree to many folk draw up a political border and are unwilling to criticise their side when it does wrong...my party right or wrong.
FWIW I missed the AS one [ or I have forgotten it] on the EU advice...that is indefensible as well. Like a bad episode of in the thick of it.
I do think carmichael he should have to face the electorate though and allow them judge whether he is fit to represent them.
AS got brilloed on those "muddled and incomplete" answers last night, (about 32 minutes in) and had the full on head wobble going, clearly very uncomfortable at being reminded of it!
For the fun of it, this is Alex "not confirming or denying the existence of legal advice"
Sorry Jamb - this week
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05x80zm/this-week-28052015
Edit: can I correct that to footage of Alex "not confirming about specific legal advice, or even its existence" 😆
"What you can say is that everything we publish is consistent with the legal advice that we receive" - at least that bit was true 😉
This Week
EDIT: Slow, was enjoying watching Salmond squirming too much.
was enjoying watching Salmond squirming too much
Why do you think I am asking 😀
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05x80zm/this-week-28052015
Actually AS is correct, he speaks of the "art of politics" being to not lie. What he of course means is to give an evasive or misleading answer without it being a lie. "Economical with the truth" as Andrew Neil says for example with the SNP fighting a freedom of information request to prevent access to legal advice which they never actually had, the existence of which they had clearly given the strong impression did exist.
I come back to Carmichael's letter where he speaks of the details being incorrect, the inference being he believes the general thrust of what was written is true. His crime, a serious one, was to lie about the leak. He failed in Salomond's words at the "art of politics"
The amount raised for the legal fees is now over £40,000
This isn't going to go away.
Steady now we are mocking AS for something that happened months ago
The ability of some England dwelling RW to get worked up by AS is limitless and timeless as well
JY, we are speaking of the programme last night, it did happen to bring up something from a while ago.
@epic, no issue at all with filing a legal challenge, filing sand winning are of course two different things. I'm surprised the Wier's haven't put up the money to be honest
The papers have been filed.
And the people behind the action have been warned not to say anything, so it may go quiet for a while.
It will be good if it works.
Might bring a bit of decency into the way politics is done.
A bit of a shame for Carmichael in that he has done some good stuff in the past. Sadly the LibDems really descended into the shitpot of nasty politics in their coalition years.
steady now we are mocking AS for something that happened months agoThe ability of some England dwelling RW to get worked up by AS is limitless and hilarious as well
POSTED 18 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Ftfy
I think it's a long shot that the legal challenge will result in a by-election, we shall see in a few months
On AS "economical with the truth" and the "art of politics" just demonstrates that he's every bit a part of the political elite as anyone else in Westminster or Holyrood.
I think we both missed out relentless as well Duckman
Like a STW swiss tony there is no subject they cannot answer with a reference to AS
Apparently Paul Flynn (Labour MP) intends to drag Heywood before the Public Administration Select Committee (he's a long standing member) to find out why the inquiry took so long to complete.
He feels the inquiry was purposely delayed for political reasons.
I've seen a lot of comment about Alec Salmond. In the interest of clarity I've stolen this from a comment on WoS...
...........................................................
"The point I made was that Salmond was NOT asked if he had EU legal advice but as the Rev Stu shows above : –
“NEIL: Have you sought advice from your own Scottish law officers in this matter?
He was asked if he had legal advice from his own Scottish Law Officers.
As Salmond made the reply, “We have, yes, in terms of the debate”.
He not only gave the correct answer to the question but then told Neil where that information was published in the public domain.
So anyone accusing Salmond of telling porkies quite obviously cannot read or understand basic English.
How the hell can asking if he had legal advice from his own Legal team be interpreted by these idiots as being asked if he had advice from the EU?
Isn’t it amazing so many supposedly highly trained Journalists and government ministers fail to be able to understand English? I listened to that interview live and there was no mention of EU legal advice."
.....................................................
I would add - it seems to be co-ordinated, why is no-one asking who's been jerking their chains?
[url= http://theorkneyvole.com/2015/06/01/standing-up-for-our-rights-in-a-small-community-the-reality-of-intimidation-in-orkney-and-shetland/ ]Interesting article from Orkney[/url]
BTW over £50,000 raised now.
Today is a significant date in the legal action, a deadline for Mr Carmichael to act, or something like that.
And today the appeal passed £60k.
Update on the legal case: there will be a hearing in Edinburgh, Thurs.
I don't think the legal action will go anywhere but it's largely served to make the lib dems unelectable for even longer, since at the exact moment they needed to start rebuilding trust and confidence, they proved themselves untrustworthy again. Absurd really and sad, and bad for the country.
In case anyone is interested, the Orkney four have re-opened their appeal. They feel further legal costs will arise. Details are on Bella Caledonia.
I was going to contribute, but I got distracted by Realise Minath Tirith.
Vomit.
[url=Alistair Carmichael case: Legal bid to oust Lib Dem MP fails - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35049150 ]null
Lying toad it was then! You would think he would have had the sense to keep his pus shut afterwards,he will be finished
Yes, he's a liar. No doubt about that. But because he didn't specifically say he wasn't a liar, he gets away with it. Just.
He lied. The system thinks he didn't lie enough to be kicked out. The voters of Orkney will probably show a different viewpoint. He's about killed the LibDems chances in May.
He won't have to face the voters till May 2020, a lot can happen between now and then. Every chance it's a Lib-Dem hold with a new candidate or even him. It was stupid to lie about the note, he didn't even write it and leaking stuff to the press happens all the time. Lying about it is a crime but it really didn't impact the result so the court reached the right decision. Holyrood elections will be an SNP triumph which is perfect as they can't blame anyone else for Scotland's problems - but they will
He's finished, but has fours years to serve out first and top up his pension.
We expect politicians to be economical with the truth and spin their message, but this was such a blunt and "shitily" placed lie. It goes beyond party politics no matter what he thinks.
He knew what he was doing and has gotten away with it. Is he hoping / expecting, a seat in the Lords when his time is up?