Air density at war...
 

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[Closed] Air density at warmer temperatures

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Many years ago (before children) I used to do quite a lot of windsurfing. We sailed all year and went to the Canaries a few times with our boards.
We used to reckon that, for a given windspeed, we could use a bigger sail in the Canaries than we would in the UK as the warmer air was less dense (certainly seems to lack the same kick when a gust came through).
So were we right or is there no real difference in air density between [say] 10c and 25c?


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:33 am
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Not much, about 5%. Maybe the wind speed is more consistent so the gusts aren't as powerful in those climes?


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:41 am
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I think there is, purely from a cycling perspective. I also think that damper air is heavier and affects drag.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:42 am
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Just worked it out to be a difference of about 5%; though I can't see how this would translate to a noticeable difference in handling characteristics of a sail.

25C: 1.247 kg/m^3
10C: 1.184 kg/m^3


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:48 am
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Wiki has a good table of changing air properties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air

Air at 0 deg. C has a density of 1.292kg/m^3
Air at 35 deg. C has a density of 1.1455kg/m^3

So, the air at 35 degree C has 0.89x the density of air at 0 degrees C.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:51 am
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Not a lot then. Odd, I remember the wind just felt 'softer'. Must be 'cos I is rad innit.
🙂


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:53 am
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5% is going to make a noticeable difference when you're on a time trail though I reckon, where every second counts. If wind resistance was proportional to the air density (no idea if it is) then you're looking at 5% difference or about 15-18 watts of power. It could take me all season to train that much extra power! It's similar to the difference that a time trial bike makes over a roadie with TT bars IIRC - in that kind of ball park at least.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 10:56 am
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But when cycling what you gain in reduced drag you lose in effective lung capacity.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:08 am
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sharkbait - Member
Not a lot then. Odd, I remember the wind just felt 'softer'. Must be 'cos I is rad innit.

11% difference would be noticeable I would have thought.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:08 am
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Density will definitely matter w.r.t wind resistance - the kinetic energy of a body of air will be proportional to its density.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:09 am
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But when cycling what you gain in reduced drag you lose in effective lung capacity

Oooh yes good point.

Anyone know what sort of conditions time triallers prefer?


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:20 am
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I windsurf quite a bit in the Canaries, and there are a few reasons you might get away with a bigger sail.

Your mast will be softer in the warm
The wind is clean and constant, fewer gusts
That beautiful Atlantic swell is just so perfect - you can just power up and sheet in. (except in the harbour at Teguise and the bays at Pozo and Sotavento)
You get a lot of time on the water so you're sailing better
The hire centres like lots of outhaul


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:23 am
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Dunno the science behind it but I just about always commute home on the bike into a headwind. Anyway winter winds are always much tougher than spring/summer - even if the wind speed is around the same. Best way I can describe it is that winter winds feel hard and in summer it's soft, like it envelopes you rather than battering you.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:27 am
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Damper air is lighter than dry air because of the hydrogen content.


 
Posted : 25/03/2011 11:39 am