Good luck and keep us informed!
It's been 14 hours and heard nothing from Denis? What's happening!? Hope he's not scamming us I want to know the outcome!
Waiting for the police to contact me back with news.
Keep at them polite but firmly. They can't arrest you for being a victim. All the best 🙂
Hope it all works out ok and you get your lens or cash back.
I've bought a lot of s/h stuff on the net (including a £16k car, that gave me a few sleepless nights) and it's always come good, but I'm always conscious there's a lot of unscrupulous scumbags out there. I only buy from sites with a feedback system and hence from sellers with good feedback.
Hope it works out for you, sounds like very tough luck. Hopefully it will be the bank's mistake.
The seller has contacted me after 5 days of silence.
He's emailed me saying that he's gone on holiday in Cornwall without his mobile - but he's been checking his emails to keep in touch.
Well I emailed him about two days ago saying I was concerned about the situation and wanted him to get in touch with me - otherwise he'd leave me with no option other than involve the police - as it looks like fraud - but he didn't get in touch then.....
Anyway, he doesn't seem to think its too much fuss to have the lens and my £975 for a fortnight......
I did tell him that I wanted the lens for a specific event last weekend , and when I emailed him this week, I said I needed it this weekend...
I don't think he realises the stress he has caused, I've given him my contact details again, but he still hasn't contacted me, therefore, I keeping the police option open for the moment.
He hasn't even checked to see if the money has cleared in his account yet.
Sounding better though and pretty sure a real scammer wouldn't have been in touch
Some people are just very laid back and can't understand everyone not feeling the same way
Reckon it will all be ok and the mobile bit could be true, I don't even have one
He hasn't even checked to see if the money has cleared in his account yet.
Press ahead I say. Good luck 🙂
Ask him for a landline no in Cornwall that you can call him on...
Sorry, but just sounds like this prat is playing for time.
If he had a grand of my cash I'd be outside his bloody door.
Try setting up a new email address & account on this camera site. Get a few people to buy/sell to you if needed.
Then contact him asking if the lens is still for sale...tell him you've the cash ready, maybe a bit more if he can post quickly etc.
Just to see what he says...
takisawa2
Thanks, I've had a friend email him about the lens (about a week ago), he didn't reply.
I think he is playing me badly - just spoke to the police who are getting back to me soon......
I feel for you, it doesn't sound great. If I was selling something to someone and there was any sort of issue I'd want it sorted straight away. I buy a lot of stuff online, like for eg. furniture I got recently (from this crowd www.fashion4home.co.uk)but its usually proper companies. Its sad to say but sometimes you just cant trust people. I hope it gets sorted soon for you.
Meant to add, hoping this comes good for you.
Just an update.
Still no progress...
Seller does appear to be genuine, he has been in touch , but the money transfer is still in limbo.
My bank (RBS) has confirmed the transfer was successful.
His bank (Nationwide) have confirmed that the money is not in a holding account for any abnormality.
Money is not in the sellers bank account - as of today.......over two weeks.
It appears that the money can stay in limbo for an indefinite period - never use bank transfer again.
I have used Bank Transfers many many times.
even with one or 2 people on this site I have transfered cash to.
I am with the HSBC where it states the funds should be in the other's account within 2 hours. that includes on an evening (though I believe it doesnt appear in their account until the following morning)
This said I have never transferred money to the Nationwide.
I do hope the issue is resolved soon
I've got a bit of an update, but would appreciate some advice from anyone who works in a bank to help me get my £975 back.
It appears that the chap was on holiday for 2 weeks and didn't bother progressing this issue for me - I'm still a little suspious about him, but probably err on giving him the benefit of doubt about not trying to steal my money (just) - still very annoyed with him , he doesn't seem to think that I have an issue here....
Anyway.
The £975 was successfully transfered to his account details 3 weeks ago.
He says it is not in his account.
Its not in the Nationwide holding / query account.
He's dragging his feet in contacting and sorting this out - still.
Who can I get in touch with at either bank (mine RBS , his Nationwide), because I cannot get any joy from the Nationwide (customer confidentiality etc).
But the money must be somewhere, yet I'm not allowed to find out where. So it could stay missing forever???
Any help/ advice/ contacts greatly appreciated.
Thanks
It's not really reasonable for the banks to just say that it's been sent but that it's not arrived - Reckon the ombuds may be enough threat to get things moving. Also worth going into your branch and asking to speak to the manager in person as that also tends to get things going.
100!
He's lieing. Three trusted sources have confirmed the movmement of the money. You, RBS and Nationwide.
He's the weakest link here, the money will be in his account. He probably doesn't have the lens. And probably went on holiday and spent your money.
Press ahead with the police. They have powers to track things like this in cases of suspected fraud. So even if Nationwide won't tell you, they will talk to the police.
Denis,
tell him you're coming up that way next week, and ask him if he wouldn't mind accompanying you to his bank in order to get this mess sorted out and collect your lens.
If he agrees, I don't mind either going in your place or going with you.
I'm not a big guy, but I've got a few friends I could take with me. I'm only in Leeds.
M
Also check the sortcode/acc number used for the money transfer to Nationwide. When someone transfers money to some of my Nationwide accounts they have to transfer it to a group sortcode and account number with the actual account number as the transaction reference. Nationwide then have to transfer the funds to the specific account. Just wondering if he has given you his specific account details and Nationwide have not correctly handled the transfer.
Time for bombers and a tin of black gloss paint.
Oh and trip to preston, im sorry but the guy knows your concerned and does nothing. BS.
Just read the whole thread mate. Really hope it works out, as others have said.
i would be down there by now..why havent you been to visit him? I know its a trip but worth it no?
very dodge! id be going to preston taking him to his local branch and getting him to print off a monthly statement showing all transactions, if it clearly isnt there he has nothing to hide. if it is there, get out the razor blades!
I've just spoke to the police who will be visiting him and investigating his (and my) bank account transactions.
They have advised me to inform him that the police will be visiting him and have the power to look into his bank account(s).
I have tried to speak to the chap, but he won't answer the phone to me, or ring me back - this has been going on for well over a fortnight.
The police have advised not to bother with him anymore and concentrate on the police and bank investigations.
Thanks for the offers of help, but I'm going to put my trust in the official channels - I'll keep you all posted , thanks for your comments etc.
Good Luck with getting your money back .
Let us know how it all turns out .
I think you are brave putting your trust in the official channels, when there are a few guys on here who are local who could knock on his door pretending to be you .
I've been reading this with interest as I've bought many things online over the years, including (I think) the same lens!
Got my fingers crossed for you and looking forward to hearing the outcome
smurf
Financial Ombudsman isn't really an option for you - yet. You have to raise an official complaint with your bank and let them process it and answer it, which they have 8 weeks in which to do so, before you can refer to the FOS. The FOS are overwhelmed at the mo and will take at least 6 months to deal with your complaint.
Stick with the police angle and good luck!
Yep, rang the Financial Ombudsman dept who told me how the system works.
I've found someone in my bank who is helping with this (at last), letter sent to the Nationwide awaiting a response on a trace for the funds.
Police due to make a visit to the other chap today / tomorrow and get access to his bank account details.
Once the police can confirm euither way I can take action to recover the funds.
1. He has received the money and he will be arrested etc
2. Money "lost" in the banking system, and funds will eventually be returned to me.
Option 1 doesn't mean I'll see my money.
Option 2 does.
Denis, you should see your money, the police now cam enforce repayment, but only for "small" sums of money. I know this because the police were going to do this with my sister and the £15k she stole, but it was too much money.
What a stinking situation to end up in - really sorry you've gone through this (beeen lurking and reading updates since the start). Was thinking a lot about your predicament as I have just bought a D300 body off a guy over at ephotozine - he's a long time member (as am I) but I'd never had any dealings with him before, either in the forums or in real life.
This thread was foremost in my mind as I paid £700 into the bank a/c of a guy I'd never met / knew very little about. My transaction went like clockwork but was scary nonetheless.
Sounds like the guys at the bank are finally sitting up now the police are involved - best of luck and keep us up to speed...
I suppose the one thing I've learnt from this is that I will never conduct another transaction for [b]less than[/b] say £20 online ever again.
I don't call that a 'lesson learnt'.
Jokes!
Srsly, hope you get your cash back cos it sounds to me like this lens never existed.
Further to the saga, and drifting a little off the main issue (ish).
I rang the RBS on Tuesday evening to ask if someone in a senior position within RBS could enter into some dialogue with the Nationwide to investigate where the funds are. (Nationwide won't talk to me).
RBS said that they would log this issue as a special concern and get back to me within 48 hours....
Thursday evening came, and no one from RBS phoned me.........
Rang RBS last night to explain the story again.......
Basically they said that there is nothing that they will do for me, I made the request for the £975 to be transferred, and they have done that.
So, the only way to resolve this is the police (even if the funds haven't been transferred to the Nationwide).
It appears that if the transaction goes wrong between two banks then the issuing bank (RBS) says that they've done what I asked them.
Receiving bank (Nationwide) say - funds not in the account - we won't talk to you.
~~
Needless to say the police will be investigating, and if this turns out to be a bank error I'll be informing the press about the service from my bank.
I've had a bank account with them for over 25 years.
Will be changing from RBS after this is sorted out - one way or another - appalling customer service.
Just beware of the consequences of using online direct money transfer in future.
~~
The other chap in this still hasn't done anything, and won't answer phones calls.
Thankfully, the police will get around to sorting this out - but it still looks another week away.
Arse. I will only do a bank transfer to those that use the fast pay service, or instant transfer.
I pay suppliers and get paid by customers all the time via transfer and have never yet had an issue, but only do it with the instant banks.
I've heard nothing but trouble stories from the other banks
Forgot mention.
There's a hidden factor in all of this, as its been going on for over a month now.
I have become very preoccupied with this, telephone calls to police, banks etc. Checking emails to see if the other chap has responded (even with something remotely useful).
Hasn't done me a lot of good, sleep is distrupted and I'm very short tempered (not normally), and generally feel ill and worn out with it.
Its like waiting in the dentist waiting room.
I'd rather know the true story.
Bank error - ok, get money back.
Fraud - ok, police case and maybe get money back.
I've as good as written off the money , as I'm completely worn out and fed up with the whole saga.
Good to know the banks are a responsible lot (not). Sure the press will be interested, as (if its a bank error), then this could happen to anyone again. But they're just saying its not their responsibility, and I'm powerless to do anything as an individual.
Must admit if Nationwide says that, then if I was the seller and the money wasn't there I'm not sure I'd talk to you either (what could he do ?)Receiving bank (Nationwide) say - funds not in the account - we won't talk to you
Yep, the seller doesn't want to help, which probably means its fraud, but the poloice will soon find out.
The seller does seem a little dull, and doesn't know (or want) what to do.
So I've emailed him ('cos he won't phone etc) telling him what to do.
He hasn't replied.........
Denis - am I being thick? Nationwide has said the money isn't in the account ?
Surely then bank error, not fraud on the seller's part. I can't imagine how he can help
(unless NW mean money has gone in & come out again ?)
Nationwide have told me that they are aware of the transaction and it is not in their holding account (won't actually confirm that it has been transferred, but it is not in the holding / query account, and hasn't been returned to me).
Seller says its not in his account.
He could be lying or there could be a fault in the Nationwide transfer to his account.
He could do this..
Go to his Nationwide branch and make them investigate the transaction - he has all the information from me and RBS to ensure this can happen.
God knows, the Nationwide could even ring me to discuss.
He could also send you copies of bank statements to show he's not received the money (wouldn't prove it though, unless you're at teh bank with him when he asks for them, as they could be tampered with otherwise). Sounds like a scam if they won't do this...
could you take NW to small claims ?
presumably they'd either refund or have to explain what went where
He could do as you've suggested, and I would have to be with him etc.
But even so, he would have to initiate the investigation - or the police involvement is the only way to progress.
It seems incredible that I can't get the 2 banks to sort this out to confirm its not a bank error.
Any result from the police?
Nothing yet - the officer dealing with it is on nights.
I'll be speaking to him sometime tomorrow.
What I don't understand is why TF Nationwide can't confirm that YOUR money has been paid into his account or not.
Stick with the police, let them chase it up. That's what they're there for. Have patience mate, you'll get your money back. Might take time, but you'll get it back. You've got all the evidence of an agreement betwen yourself and the seller, that's a legally binding contract, so by law you get either the lens or your money back. At this stage, you're entitled to your money back I'd say.
As for the 'going round his house with a few mates', a word of caution. I've known of someone trying that, and the scumbag 'phoning his mates who turned up in a car, with sawn-off shotguns. Probably an extreme case, but it's always best left to the Professionals.
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blimey what a bummer, I've been shafted by someone on here for £75. DOES ANYBODY KNOW BEN NORLEY? I haven't forgotten Ben if you've crept back on here!!! The scrote moved out of his rented flat so the small claims papers never got served. £75 wasn't worth a trip up north for me.
I hope this ends nicely for you and this particular scrote gets what he deserves.
Well there has been a development.
I re emailed him again......
Just stated some facts
Confirmed bank transfer from my bank to his....
Gave police investigation report number to him
Gave investigating officers name and badge number
Gave police telephone number
He responded within one hour saying that he's had enough of this, and my harassment .
He said that he has put a cheque in the post today for the "missing" £975 and this will end the matter.
~~
Sits back and waits for cheque, and wait till it clears before I look for a replacement lens.
Might even buy a bottle of Newcastle Brown to celebrate the return of my money.
That seems remarkably generous of him 🙂 I hope you don't feel too beastly about all the harassment that you have given him.
( I'd hold off the beer though until you i) have the cheque ii) cash the cheque and the money clears into your account ).
So, it was theft/fraud and he's trying to get out of being arrested. I can only assume that he thinks this will get him off the hook. I wouldn't be surprised if the police still follow this up. Would he have returned the money if the police weren't involved? Where's the lens? Suspect it never existed. He still (allegedly) committed a crime. Un committing a crime after you've been found out doesn't work!
I'd be relieved, but still suspicious until the cheque clears. Hope it does work out ok, but I'd still want the tosser to be nicked for it
If he has sent you a cheque, then he has clearly received your money(how many people can pay out nearly a grand to stop 'hassle'). In that case, I'd carry on with the Police involvement, as it is still fraud, whether he pays you back or not.
Paying the money back will be taken into consideration if it gets to Court, but the Offence has still been committed.
Alan.
Wowsers, how lame!
Keep up the investigation for sure.
Don't forget the normal cheque scams, and that they can bounce even after they've cleared. Make sure it all looks good, and keep a photo/scan for evidence.
I'd've insisted upon return of funds via BT - the same way they were sent.
Denis, i wouldnt accept a cheque from this guy after all of this - Can you not just go meet him and get the cash?
Arrange to meet with the police at the same time. Then you really can sit back & relax...
A meeting isn't going to work, obviously.
Maybe reply to him and state that you'll expect the cheque within 5 days and that will be the end of the matter.
Scumbag was sitting on the cash hoping you would just go away, what an ass. Poo on his doorstep.
Scumbag was sitting on the cash hoping you would just go away
Yup and its still theft. Would press the Police to follow this up, even after you have your money.
Yep, you should chase him on this.
I've told the police about the cheque in the post, but am still going ahead with the police action(s).
Didn't have much of a choice about the payment method - he surprised me really - just sent me an email as a statement of what he was prepared to do.
In the end I'll accept the cheque and hope it doesn't bounce or have any other complications.
Sounds sad, but I'll be glad to have my money back - its just a relief to (hopefully) get the money back and .......relax.
I'll keep the bottle of Newcastle Brown in the fridge for the moment 🙂
Call me cynical, but I find it pretty suspicious that he's sending you a cheque to settle things, rather than the lens you paid for.
I also got scammed by a seller on here for £80, a well known seller as there's probably the largest ever thread about it all.
Anyways, I was promised that the money would be returned by cheque on a regular basis. The post office really appeared to be very careless with all the post he was "sending".
So, press ahead, ask your bank how long it takes for a cheque to clear completely and for the funds to not be recalled / bounced (from memory it's actually quite a long time, something into the months). Until this period is up, keep on with the police investigation, and keep records of all calls / emails, including the times and dates etc and pass them on to the cops on a regular basis.
My bet is that the following will unfold:
- the post office have lost the cheque;
- this chap not prepared to send another before the post office investigation time is up (about 28 days or something)
- nothing will ever be sent so it can be tracked
- the cheque never existed in the first place
I'll just be glad that the saga is (hopefully) over.
Once this is over, I'll be posting on most of the UK camera forums to warn others. I have been looking to see if he has been trying to sell the same lens on different forums - but haven't seen it yet.
A friend of mine has emailed him to enquire if the lens is still for sale etc - he hasn't replied to date.
If he's got the money then what's wrong with a bank transfer your way again? When it's in your account, it's in for good then, non?
If the cheque is suspect, then the police will prosecute.
I contacted the bank - I can pay a fee to ensure that the funds are available in his account to cover the £975 , about £15 I think.
Its not over yet, but the police detail has spurred him into action - so it must be worrying him ?
Cheque clearing has changed, after 6 days or so it can't be taken off you. Allegedly.
[url= http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2007/167-07 ]OFT info here[/url]
thanks for the link
it's spurred him into action, but don't call them off until it's fully resolved and the cash is safely and fully returned to you.
Then leave the police on him anyway for clearly being a tool.
Keep all communication and IF the cheque arrives and it is NOT in his name inform him that you are handing the cheque, envelope and communication to the officer investigating. It could mean he has hold of a stolen chq book. If it has been stolen the chq would bounce due to the owner cancelling the book.
Keep at it. There is not a chance in hell that I'd pay someone almost a grand to 'make them go away' if I'd never received the payment. Not a chance- or anyone else who is sane. Hes using the 'harrasement' to hope you feel bad and 'believe him'.
Then leave the police on him anyway for clearly being a tool
Totally agree. He'll have form on this and even if he isn't already known to the Police, this transaction will hopefully start his record proper.
I still think hes a teenager living at home, riding his bmx and laughing at 'mugs'. He wouldn't be the first (Ebay had one of these).
Heres a few within seconds of googling:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4615117.stm
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4694074.Haslingden_teenager_admits___96_000_eBay_scam/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3734462.stm
ummm... takes Newcastle Brown out of fridge for the moment, looking good on the dining room table.
I do hope I can open it soon....
Hmm, so he's prepared to refund you the money. Here's a thought, why not send the lens instead?
He's talking pish if you ask me.
Oh and treat yourself to a nice ale, Innes & Gunn for example.
so it sounds like he's had your money all along, there's a shock! Lets hope the scrote gets a record for his little scam.
I wonder how many others have been done like this.
TBH it's utterly amazing more of this doesn't go on. Fairly decent chunks of money change hands every day on this forum. It's astonishing that there aren't more people taking the mickey. That said, I've had a couple and that's my fill.
It sounds to me like he used it as a holiday loan until pay day, on the assumption most people got paid on Friday / Tuesday.
Cheque has arrived by recorded delivery this morning.
Photo taken of the cheque and will take to my bank tomorrow morning.
~~
Bottle of Newcastle Brown moves back into fridge in readiness.....
~~
If its genuine, then I suppose it won't be until Wednesday - Friday next week until it clears.
[i]Cheque has arrived by recorded delivery this morning.[/i]
Great news. Fingers crossed it clears.
TBH I was expecting it to be more like pk-ripper described..."the post office have lost the cheque; this chap not prepared to send another before the post office investigation time is up...etc"
Good luck - hope you get your cash back - but I also hope this doesn't mean the scumbag will get away with it.
Isn't it odd that he decided to send you money instead of the lens? If he is genuine he now has the problem of selling the lens again.