Need some advice, any advice on how to try and get my money back would be appreciated.
Bought a camera lens of another forum and eventually agreed a price of £975 inc postage.
Initially, I thought I could collect so asked the seller if meeting him with the cash was ok, he agreed - but given he's 250 miles away I decided post would be better.
Made a payment of £975 via direct bank transfer to his bank details on Monday 2 August. he has since said that the money is not in his account.
My bank says the money has been transferred successfully to his account and that its there.
I've got his postal address - well the one he gave me anyway, and his mobile nimber - which he doesn't answer.
What can I do?
Pay him a visit, if you've got his address.
Sorry to hear that. Hmm not sure really - how much info do you need for a small claims court action? I spose you need to find out if it's really his address.
What forum was it btw?
Ask the bank if they can reverse the transfer. Mistakes do get made.
Then go visiting!
I've asked the bank to reverse the payment, but they're not allowed to do this. I made the request to pay him the money, and they have no legal power to refund the money I sent him.
Small claims court looks to be the only way here, but I'd be interested in other opinions.
Won't be using the direct money transfer or cheque route ever again with an individual.
I was asking what forum mainly because I was wondering if it was talk photography where they have the feedback system? I'd be dubious of transferring £950 to someone who didn't have a pretty decent feedback rating.
Sorry I know this doesn't help you now...
grum
It wasn't Talk Photography, it was the Canon EOS forum.
Initially I contacted the seller with less than his selling price and he refused the offer. About 5 days later he said that he'd take £975 - so I said fine , where can we meet. He agreed to meeting and sounded very genuine.
Had lots of detail about the lens and knows about photography - it a 70-200f2.8 IS. Good images of the lens and case / box etc.
Got his mobile number - he even rang me last Saturday - got his address.
Seems he thinks he can get away with this though.
what area of the country is he in?
Are you 100% sure it was his bank account?
What I've done before when I've done this is got the other persons bank account number and names the account was in, then gone to the nearest branch of the other persons bank and paid in directly into their account after confirming with the cashier that the account number and names match up and got a receipt. That way you know it's gone to the right place and you don't get to pay any charges for the transfer.
He doesn't live in Plymouth does he?
I paid the money into the bank account details that he gave me - I asked him to double check the sort code and account numbers were correct.
I've asked him to chase up the money from his bank, but as I said won't answer his mobile and seems to have stopped replying to my emails.
He's in Preston.
Doesn't sound like the usual scammer, does he post regularly on that site especially away from the classifieds
Must admit I do tend to use the talk photography classifieds because of the feedback system mentioned earlier.
Sold a camera recently and the transfer took a few days, kept in contact with the buyer, he mentioned not being worried because of my good feedback history
Hope this all works out ok, think it might and could just be the chap has had something happen his end
Could be a scam but from the details you've given, doesn't seem like it apart from you not actually getting the lens. Check if he's pinched the images he sent you. The computer geeks might know a better way but you can upload them to flickr or photobucket, do a google search that will find the photo then ask google to find similar images (I think this works, am I right?).
250 miles is not a long way for me to get £950 !!!!!!
My bank says the money has been transferred successfully to his account and that its there.
I asked him to double check the sort code and account numbers were correct.
I've asked him to chase up the money from his bank, but as I said won't answer his mobile and seems to have stopped replying to my emails
I'm not sure what good it will do- the Police might say this is 'Civil' however you have had fraud committed against you/defrauded out of money.
You were to buy goods that possibly did not exist. This bit is key. Hence if the Police officer says its civil ask to speak to someone higher up.
Inform the person that unless he transfers the money back asap you are going to involve the Police. The fact hes avoiding you now says to me that he cant be genuine. IF he is genuine the threat of Police will make him speak to his bank ASAP at the very least and get him concerned.
As a lesson- NEVER buy something that much unless you can collect. There are scammers on here from time to time as well.
All the best.
I think there's still time for the money to show up
on another note: I sent someone money by direct transfer for some parts off the classifieds here
that 'disappeared' for around 2 weeks before the receiving bank found it
I think its fair for the OP to nudge the otherside with a Police involvement message.
At least then it'd shake him/her into being more helpful. Yes the seller maybe thinking 'I havent got the money- is this fella trying it on'? but after almost 2 weeks I think its fair to step up a gear now.
Is it time for the angry mob of justice yet?
The bank have a duty to provide you with proof of payment, they will send a letter of confirmation to you. Then its cops/small claims.
I'm in Lancaster which is not too far from Preston. I don't have any bombers to own him with though.
I'm in Lancaster which is not too far from Preston. I don't have any bombers to own him with though
I'm sure a crusty pair of Lyrics or Domains will suffice, but would obviously be less stylish.
i wouldn't go round and start making any accusations, difficult to see a good outcome from that. Getting violent would mean you get in trouble with the police.
i'd get written evidence from the bank as to where the money has actually gone, without that you can't do anything.
Then send it to the guy with a polite letter stating you intend to involve the police/small claims court if it doesn't get resolved.
Have you considered he may be on holiday and hence not replying? Its quite common this time of year.
This happened to me last year - £800 for a holiday let in France. It transpired that the dozy bint had been checking the wrong account for the money. It was a bit of a nervous couple of days, but it came good in the end.
Whenever I pay for anything expensive by bank transfer now, I always send a few pence first and get the respondent to tell me how much it was before sending them the balance. It is far too easy to make errors in entering account numbers and sort codes.
He is probably just on holiday and too idle to check his account. Try calling him from another mobile he wont recognise the number of and see if he answers that.
Good luck.
40mpg
He spoke to me on Saturday and sent me a text on Monday.
Doesn't say anything about not being at home - in fact he said he would post as soon as the money appears in his account.
geoffj
Tried the different mobile - still doesn't answer.
Have you considered he may be on holiday and hence not replying? Its quite common this time of year
Even in America you can pick up emails and answer mobiles 😉
Something similar happened to me - except the other way round.
All I would say is; Don't assume the chap is lying about the money not appearing, he might be telling the truth.
If he hasn't had payment arrive, then his options are limited.
ntreid
Yes, but if he was genuine he would answer the emails and phone / text wouldn't he (wherever he was).
I've got the letter from by bank confirming the bank transaction - off down to his bank now (Nationwide).
It's common courtesy to reply, yes, but not doing so doesn't make him a crook.
I agree with Horatio in that I wouldn't go round making accusations.
JUst a note about nationwide I'm with them and I transferred money from my Yorkshire one to that and although all went thru fine it tool over a week to appear at the other end despite vanishing immediately from my Yorks account. Good luck
Put his address into google street view, and see if the address exists, then BT.com for a neighbours phone number etc, then ring them ask them to put a note through his door.
Easy or what.
Making acusations....
The money has been transferred sucessfully.
He's got my money and the lens.
He's got my address and hasn't sent the lens
He's stopped communicating with me.
Am I just supposed to forget about the fact that I sent him £975 for something that I haven't got.
Its been well over a week now since it should have been with me.
Been in touch with small claims people, another day or two and I'll begin that process.
I thought I'd been pretty patient and trusting up to today.
Denis... what banks were you transfering money from and to? If they aren't part of the Faster Payments system then money could take upto about 10 days to appear in the other persons account.
Me - Royal Bank of Scotland
Him - Nationwide
RBS says the money is in his account.
Nationwide won't do anything for me.
Took the letter of confirmation to them and asked them to confirm that the transaction was successful and without any problems.
They won't do anything for me - customer confidentiality etc.
So, I have to post a copy to him, he takes it to his bank and then they confirm that the money is there.
Good luck.
Just paid £1500 to a complete stranger, and had a nervous few days.
Hopefully a happy outcome.
J.
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Nationwide still use roll numbers for certain accounts, as opposed to sort code / account number.
Is the account number a memorable number, e.g. 11111111, and you supplied the roll number as the payment reference? If this is the case, there is likely a degree of manual intervention as the payment will not be routed via Straight Through Processing.
Your bank cannot possibly confirm that the funds are in the account, it's just not possible. At no point can they look into an account held at another bank, so this part is incorrect. They can confirm that the funds have been sent to that sort code, but it's up to Nationwide to apply it to an account. If they are unable to apply the funds, they will be bounced back to your bank and may be sitting in a rejections account somewhere. Your bank needs to open an investigation where Nationwide can then look into it there to confirm the location of the funds.
Don't go down the small claims route yet until you have irrefutable proof from both banks as to the location of the funds.
agree.Your bank cannot possibly confirm that the funds are in the account, it's just not possible.
Ok so he should respond to you, but the time between transfers of non same banks takes longer.
9 days long?
no communication for the last 3 days?
if you were selling something for £975 wouldn't you want the money in your account/.
speaking to RBS now .....again
never, ever again....
As I said earlier, I sold something recently and took a while for the money to appear, showed it leaving the buyers account almost immediately.
Also my wife has a Nationwide account and if she writes me a cheque it has taken an age to show up
Paid in with other bank cheques which clear a lot quicker than the building society one
No excuse for the lack of contact though unless he is having a problem, but a text doesn't exactly take long to send
hora - MemberHave you considered he may be on holiday and hence not replying? Its quite common this time of year
Even in America you can pick up emails and answer mobiles
Maybe he took a proper holiday and left the mobile at home?
I don't always carry mine.
9 days long?no communication for the last 3 days?
if you were selling something for £975 wouldn't you want the money in your account/.
speaking to RBS now .....again
never, ever again....
The monday you sent it doesnt count, so thats 8 days...you need to phone your bank and ask them how long it can take, but i seem to remember 10 working days..
I transferred 40k by internet banking, and it took 10 days...
Denis, what's his history like on the Canon forum?
Have you tried google mapping his postcode as mentioned above to make sure the address he's given you exists?
Presumably the name on the bank details is the same name as he's given you?
have you tried doing a directory enquiries search for his home phone number?
Isn't there some dodgy way of tracing a location of a mobile phone signal or did i dream that?
There's no history on the Canon forum
Got his name address and bank details plus his mobile number and email address.
Google maps show the address exists
Nothing in BT directories for a landline phone number though - but more people just use a mobile these days.
Don't know dodgy stuff, I'm a pretty straight forward (too) trusting type......
I'm a pretty straight forward (too) trusting type.....
Trusting isn't the word I'd use.
maybe not, but I'm me and I treat people the way I'd like to be treated.
haven't always come out of things in life on the winning side - but see plenty of people who have no trust or compassion.
I pity them, hope I'm not stung for a grand here, and it will teach me a sad lesson.......
But life will go on, and if I've been scammed , then who knows who this chap will scam next
If has ripped you off which I sincerely hope he hasn't might be a nice idea to join up to the various well known photo sites that have classifieds and make people aware of him
I live near Preston, I have a nice pleasant attitude and like trips out to quite places........... I can even collect things
I would be PM'ing Tango Man if I were you.
Have you googled his name and address, and his Cannon Forum sign in name?
Its a 4 hour drive . I would be on the motorway 5am sat morning for £975
Good Luck
Step it up a gear I reckon. Shake the tree and see what falls out.
I live near Preston I can film it for you and post it up later if that helps
you have the address.
You can verify that the address exists via googlemaps etc.
You can take a trip up there, and if you do, knock on the neighbours door first, and be completely polite and ask if they've seen Mr X recently as you're trying to get hold of him (don't tell them why just yet). If they have, then go knock on his door and ask for your money back.
Sadly, you're not the only one to get scammed. I was done for £80 from here by some scrote from Plymouth (hence Hora's question). Really pissed me off, but what goes around comes around. Maybe that particular gent might piss someone bigger and nastier off than me. I hope so.
I do have his address, and google maps confirm it exists.
I've sent him an email explaining that if he doesn't get in touch with me tomorrow then he leaves me no option but to begin the small claims / police/ solicitor route.
No response yet - no answer to the mobile number he's given me either.
I am thinking about the four hour drive , but what do I do if he's not there and even more so can't get his hands on £975 in cash? Because his promise of getting the money to me would be pretty valueless.
Wouldn't trust a cheque off him either as he can stop this payment also.
He could get aggressive - I'm too old for that sort of thing now, and haven't had a fight since I was in school - read over 40 years ago (suppose I a stupid old xxxxxx, now).
This whole episode has really got me down...... Could do with a bit of help.
sadly there's not an easy solution i can think of really - good luck though and hope it does turn out to be legit.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier - you don't know that he has the money!! Reporting it to the police won't work at all as you can't prove he's lying, at best all you'll do is alienate him if he is being truthful.
Telling him to get in touch with you tomorrow won't work, it's an unreasonable deadline and you have no proof he's reading his emails.
Post a letter first class signed for, asking him to get in touch. Make sure you use a service with decent tracking so you can confirm he's at home as you can see who signed for it.
Issue here is your bank has verified what a/c numbers hes given you and what you have paid into.
Hes definitely given you the right a/c number- you've gone back and asked him to reconfirm?
So the money is in his banks system. His bank isn't obliged to give you any information at all. Which means it has to be driven by him (with permission from him/request where the funds are). If hes not forthcoming with this little bit of human-nature then I would honestly involve the Police now.
Even if he geniunely hasn't received it any decent human being would investigate where its gone. Initially I'd think you were trying it on with me but with your insistence I'd start digging, phone call etc. At the very least I'd do this- partly to close off the subject and put it to bed eitherway/get rid.
Can take upto two weeks- Sorry. I really don't believe that in this day and age.
Sorry, I'd involve the Police now and say unfortunately you feel you are the victim of a fraudulent transaction that didnt involve anything to sell. It can't be doing your blood pressure any justice.
What if this seller is actually doing it to others and turns out to be a teenager laughing his head off in his parents house? Far-fetched I know. Still.
Would I wait two weeks for someone to say 'no mate, nothing received'? No. Be proactive now. I wouldnt worry about him suddenly ignoring you- doesnt sound like hes being bothered anyway. Police involvement would make him sit up.
Call his local force to start with.
Thanks hora
I'm going to start this today - he will have received the confirmation of the bank transfer from me to his bank account this morning.
I also included a letter to remind him that I've been trying to contact him via phone and email for days, and he's been ignoring me.
Doesn't sound like he cares etc.
Perhaps some official intervention will resolve one way or the other.
~~
My bank says - the money would have reached his account by now - if there was a problem with the transaction it would have come back to me by now as undeliverable.
I asked him to double check the account details he gave me --- no reply.
~~
If he was genuine, and wanted to get the money for his lens (after all it nearly 2 weeks since I originally contacted him), he would be wanting his money for the lens.
Next stop is the police station.
what is the rough address of seller/street postcode. I will tell you if it is a rough area or not...you can read into that what you want
Ribbleton
Ribbleton
I was warned by a local to keep well away from there 🙁
Step it up a gear I reckon. Shake the tree and see what falls out.
Funniest thing I have read today.
mmmm, a couple of years old but [url= http://www.lep.co.uk/news/city_named_as_a_poverty_hotspot_1_70774 ]it was a poverty hotspot[/url] hope it works out for you
mixed area could not the worst nor the besta area. Some deprived areas but mainly terrace houses with posher areas on the edges. No help really as not a fully chav area nor a posh area
Sorry
E-mail me address I can hand deliver a note if you want ..no calling/violence/bombers offered on my part
Postcode for google streetview please 🙂
Denis, Accept the offers from locals on here to maybe go round and deliver a note? save you a drive to start with?
STW middle class pedantry on lock on mode. He lives in whats classed as a lower end neighbourhood, therefore he must be a scum of the earth low life thief. 🙄
I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt for a week. If no response then involve your local police and give them all the details you have for them to send it to the police local to that address. A chap on the door by the local police might be enough to kick him into action or refund the money if he has received it.
Is this not the classic kind of case where the Police say "it's a civil matter"?
im near preston, i know of a few people who will get your money back, but will want 25%... haha
Can take upto two weeks- Sorry. I really don't believe that in this day and age.
It's not a question of technology, I think it's more to do with what the banks do with your money during this period. If the bank wants to play with your money for two weeks, they can and will.
Maybe talking to the bank again mentioning fraud, theft and the police might get them to look a bit more carefully.
Good luck.
I was scammed a few years ago involving a cheque. I was with the Nationwide and they were no help at all. They treated [u]me[/u] like the criminal. I reported it to the Police who tried but couldnt't trace the person. As I had reported it to the Police they were able to get a copy of the cheque, acccount details it was paid into etc. From this I could prove that the name of the account didn't match exactly what was on the cheque (cheque was crossed so had to match) and therefore the Nationwide had to reverse the payment. Though I had to get copies of the relevant legislation to prove all this to them. Bottom line, report it to the Police so they can get involved. Nationwide were useless.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-10956763 ]"At the end of the day theft is theft, whether it's hundreds of pounds in cash or hundreds of pounds-worth of points and we were duty-bound to investigate this properly.[/url]
Get the cops in.
timc - Member
im near preston, i know of a few people who will get your money back, but will want 25%... hahaI'm glad its amused some...................
~~
Police involved - will hear in 24 hours from the police what is happening. A neighbour of mine is a policeman, he has advised me not to get involved - his words - there are some dangerous and desperate xxxx's out there, and you could get hurt.
So thanks to all for the offers of help, but I'm a straightforward type - I'll have to let it run officially with the police.
I suppose the one thing I've learnt from this is that I will never conduct another transaction for less than say £20 online ever again.
Hope it all gets sorted out soon with a satisfactory conclusion for you
Nothing is 100% safe, but a bit of research before you commit is always a good idea
I would never buy online from a new member here who had just started using the classifieds, same on any site really
Talk Photography is pretty good with its trader ratings and gives you a good idea about a persons trustworthiness
Maybe its time for something like that on all sites, something that has been mentioned here before and obviously needs doing where you bought from
Just out of interest being a Canon user myself, which site was it exactly?
I've paid for items on BR and it's taken 8 days for the funds to get there. Still 950 no communication, sounds like it's gone.
Thats why I said Police at the start. There are people out there with less to loose than me and you in many ways. They see scamming someone as 'their earnings' and the unfortunate is just a money source/should know better/tough.there are some dangerous and desperate xxxx's out there, and you could get hurt.
The key to your communication with the Police is persistence and asking for info to be logged and you to be called back. If you are not- chase. Dont give up especially as you have a trace on this person.
Its a cash/fraud-crime NOT CIVIL.
We take most of our payments by bank transfer and the time for them to come through can vary a lot. Some people's come through almost instantly, some take several days.
Should the OP wait 6 weeks 'just incase'?
I've had a phone call from the police saying that they will be pushing this case as it is fraud.
Hope to hear from the Lancashire police in the next 24 hours - at least they are taking a real interest and seem to want to do something about this.
Hope I see my money again........
Luck.
Hope it works out for you mate.
Denis99 - Member
"My bank says - the money would have reached his account by now - if there was a problem with the transaction it would have come back to me by now as undeliverable."
This is cobblers, a substantial minority of problem payments aren't returned, but instead drop into a suspense account awaiting further action. But it's pretty rare for a payment made to correct account details to fail to arrive.