Topic starter
Eldest son lives in a flat with a steep set of stairs to the back garden. Facing the top of the stairs and over the stairs they have set of large shelves, but access is awkward and risks a fall down the steep steps. So we’re thinking a ‘trap door’ about 3’ long (or over the stairs) and hinged off the wall opposite to the hand rail. The ‘trap door’ would normally be held up in the vertical position by a hook/latch system
We recognise that on the hand rail side we will need a block on the wall at the top of the stairs to rest the ‘trap door’ on and, as the ‘trap door’ will have to be curved to avoid the hand rail, we will use a ‘strap’ to support the far corner. We think the strap and a small kick board should be enough to stop someone stepping beyond the trap door edge.
The ‘trap door’ will likely be plywood with bracing to ensure sufficient strength.
What hinges and strap types would STWers recommend to safely take the weight of a person accessing the shelves?
Thanks in advance.
Posted : 14/04/2025 12:27 pm
Topic starter
@tthew good point. Thanks.
No idea why I hadn't thought of that!
Posted : 14/04/2025 12:48 pm
I'd put a proper support under the hinge side too, and any other unsupported sides to be honest. Hinges are not designed to support that kind of weight in those directions.
came to say this, the trap door on our stage has supports, the hinge lifts up from those supports
Posted : 14/04/2025 1:56 pm
Mr Pierrepont to the forum!
🤣 My first thought when I read the thread title!
Posted : 14/04/2025 2:04 pm
MoreCashThanDash reacted
Topic starter
I will use supports on the non-hand rail side and on the hand rail side nearest the top of the steps. For the hand rail side furthest out from the top of the stairs I’ll still need to use a strap as that edge of the ‘trap door’ curves away (ie the trap door narrows) to allow it to drop down/lift up past the handrail.
Posted : 14/04/2025 2:08 pm
I'd buy a combination stair ladder, handy for you to borrow as well 🙂
Posted : 15/04/2025 8:28 am
I will use supports on the non-hand rail side and on the hand rail side nearest the top of the steps. For the hand rail side furthest out from the top of the stairs I’ll still need to use a strap as that edge of the ‘trap door’ curves away (ie the trap door narrows) to allow it to drop down/lift up past the handrail.
That doesn't sound very clever.
Thats an open span unsupported you will end up needing a thicker trapdoor. The trapdoor should fit in a socket the socket should support the trapdoor frame all the way round.
I wouldn't muck about with a platform thats half arsed especially when you are planning to also be lifting things on and off shelves at its furthest, unsupported edge.
Sort the trapdoor then workout how to alter the handrail not the other way round.
Posted : 15/04/2025 8:46 am
Topic starter
I've suggested a combination ladder but storage space is an issue. I have one and v useful.
Yep, thick trap door. Sorting out supporting that one corner is the challenge.
Posted : 15/04/2025 9:15 am
Gamg plank that hinges down from the shelves?
Posted : 15/04/2025 10:04 am
70mm wide ss piano hinge will do it but only as good as the fixing and material your fixing too.
70mm is full leaf so about 30mm each leaf.
It's no cheap
Posted : 15/04/2025 10:28 am
Just a thought; is the flat rented or does your son own it? If rented, I’d be checking in with the LL before making any contraptions.
Posted : 15/04/2025 10:44 am
Posted : 15/04/2025 10:50 am
Topic starter
Piano hinge, I'll check that out.
Owns the flat.
Mr Pierrepont.. .. infamous hangman .. .. trap door!
Posted : 15/04/2025 11:26 am
Mr Pierrepont to the forum!
Gallows humor
Explanation for us 'new' members?
Family business:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint
Posted : 15/04/2025 3:07 pm
Is it just me that's being thick and struggling to visualise this?
You want to have a three foot long wooden flap jutting out over the top of a steep staircase, thus ensuring that it you do fall down the stairs you'll have a good 1m drop before you hit them?
Can you move the shelves somewhere less awkward?
Posted : 15/04/2025 3:21 pm
Standing at the top of the stairs. You are looking at a large deep set of shelves that you pass under. I would guess the strps are 3ft wide the length will be quite a bit longer as you want to be able to pass under them.
Normally accessed by a ladder half way down the steps.
He wants to bridge that gap.
However you do raise a good point. Whats the wall made of, i grew up with a cupboard in that spaced accessed through the wall.
Posted : 15/04/2025 4:08 pm
Topic starter
@joshvegas that’s pretty well it, though the trap door length only needs to be about 3’ or a bit more as the steps are pretty steep. The bottom shelf, if I remember correctly is about upper chest height and there is at least 1 more shelf. Don’t have a picture to hand as he lives 180 miles away.
Space is at a premium in the 1st floor flat, for anything including ladders.
We do plan to drill (thin/exploratory) the walls either side of the stairs to see how solid they are.
Posted : 15/04/2025 6:14 pm
Aye. What you need there is a cupboard.
Posted : 15/04/2025 6:43 pm
Jesus they really are steep.
Three foot length wise. If the shelf is 3 foot deep and on a beam. Make a pull out gang plank almost the full width of the space. Block up around the gangplank and put a new shelf in.
Imagine a drawer. That pulls out and rest on the steps and oberlaps the original shelf. No hinges. No extra support.
Posted : 15/04/2025 7:13 pm
No help to the OP but the Timothy Spall dramatisation of Pierrepoint's career is compelling and uncomfortable viewing if you can find it.
Posted : 15/04/2025 7:31 pm
Topic starter
Imagine a drawer. That pulls out and rest on the steps and oberlaps the original shelf. No hinges. No extra support
Trying to envisage that and think I've got it.
Will draw it up to see how it looks.
Posted : 15/04/2025 7:56 pm
Just make sure there is a rope to grab hold of in case of missteps.
noose motif optional…
Posted : 15/04/2025 8:10 pm
MoreCashThanDash reacted
Imagine a drawer. That pulls out and rest on the steps and oberlaps the original shelf. No hinges. No extra support
Trying to envisage that and think I've got it.
Will draw it up to see how it looks.
Sorry wasn't too clear. Stick say a 2x4 against the back and side walls and place a new shelf on that. You now have a gap. Which you can store bridge.
You can play with the thickness but 2x3 frame with ply faces all glued and screwed would be plenty rigid.
You pull it out and it sits on the step and bridges the gap. So it needs to be longer than the gap sufficient to be secure. Which might make it infeasible to fit.
That way you keep the stairway completely clear.
Posted : 15/04/2025 9:22 pm
Is the hinge side a solid wall?
It would look rather industrial but gate pins and strap hinges would hold someone's weight on the basis they can hold back a bull scratching it's behind against a gate. Would be dependent on how well you can attach the pins. Pins could be reversed so door doesn't fall off or in line so you could take the door off.
Posted : 15/04/2025 9:31 pm
Don’t have a picture to hand as he lives 180 miles away.
Does he not have a phone with a camera on it?
Posted : 15/04/2025 9:32 pm
Topic starter
He’s away this week but will get some photos when he’s back.
We are going to test drill the wall.
Posted : 16/04/2025 9:38 am
Topic starter
I am sure the door is higher than the sloped ceiling above the lower part of the stairs.
'Trap door' Support blocks not shown.
Posted : 16/04/2025 10:54 am
So I think you are trying to do something a bit like these:
They feel like a bodge thats probably ok for accessing a rarely seen basement but not ideal for an actual main thoroughfare and I imagine may have some building regs violations if you care about that.
You could take joshvegas drawer idea and do something like this:
with a boathook or similar to slide back n forth.
Posted : 16/04/2025 11:31 am
nickingsley reacted
Topic starter
@poly ... the trap door is similar to what I had in mind, but ..... that sliding shelf is making me think hard. If we raised the sliding shelf a bit it wouldn't restrict headroom when using the stairs down to the rear garden.
As for the trap door, I need to better understand how it's supported on the non-hinged side in that picture.
Great stuff, I'll share with DiL
Thank you
EDIT: I've just realised there is more than 1 picture in the links. Cheers
Posted : 16/04/2025 11:47 am
I am revisiting based on that sketch.
Rolling shelves would be cool. Safe too.
One reason i don't like trapdoors as i am lazy. And i would end up leaving it down. Then some stuff wpuld be left on kt. Then i would be annoyed.
Posted : 17/04/2025 3:32 pm
Topic starter
Cheers @joshvegas
There are some good ideas put forward by team STW, thank you. I've forwarded them all, including the Rolling Shelves to the DiL who is keen to sort something out. DiL has sent a photo of the top of the stairs..... attached below.
One thing that has been pointed out to me is that the existing shelves are actually higher up, the top shelf is at the same level as the top of the door as the ceiling at the top of the stairs is above door height.
Posted : 17/04/2025 3:52 pm
Does he own the flat?
Take out the shelves, knock through from either side and put fitted in wardrobes accessible from the rooms.
Posted : 17/04/2025 4:32 pm
Topic starter
Yep, owns it. I think there is already a fitted cupboard the other side of the far wall accessed from a room on the right. Left wall is shared with neighbour. They could put an access point from the right side to a cupboard or ..... but will require hacking through a solid wall with lintels erc.. I will suggest in the list of options they have.
Posted : 17/04/2025 4:42 pm
Yeah it's no exactly how i had imagines, i assumed the bottom shelf was rough upper landing level.
Are you saying even a trap door doesn't help with the top shelf?
Posted : 17/04/2025 5:05 pm
Topic starter
^ TBH I'm not sure. I need some measurements. If they go down that route they might need a small step/set of steps on the 'Trap door', not a big issue.
Posted : 17/04/2025 5:14 pm
Is the right hand side a load bearing wall?
Posted : 17/04/2025 9:30 pm
