So, question.
Why is everyone advising waiting until retirement to downsize? Wouldn't it make more sense to downsize earlier and put the released equity (assuming there is some otherwise my point is moot) into the pension pot and the associated tax boost?
Or have I missed something?
There’s a fair amount of evidence that retirement isn’t good for men.
Some men. If I had the money I’d happily quit working tomorrow. Pick up playing an instrument again, give drawing or painting a go, learn a few skills etc. Work is what gets in the way of living in my opinion.
Bank robbery ?
You get away with it and theres plenty of money to fund the lifestyle. Or if you get caught then the prison service will give you a small centrally heated room and free meals.
Exactly retirement doesn’t have to mean sitting on your arse watching tellybox for 14hrs a day 7 days a week waiting to die.
plenty of stuff for me to replace ‘work’. I just hope I have my health when I get there….if I get there
If only A.I. could work for us all then we could do want we want…
I know it’s not the point of this thread, but what’s this with pensioners needing a new car every three years? Fine, I’ve never bought a new car ever, so I’m not target audience there, but why oh why get a new one every three years? 🤯
If you’re still paying a mortgage i’d try and prioritise paying that off first.
This isn’t necessarily good advice: it’s not always wise - with minimum 20% tax relief, even with mortgage rates where they are now pension contributions will almost always be more advantageous than overpayments. The immediate gain of £80 up to £100 (then some pension growth) performs better than overpayment, especially over shortish-medium timescales. Especially more so if you’re a higher rate tax payer.
As others have said – its not too late to start a pension –
This is excellent advice!!
Any amount you can spare, don’t prioritise overpayments, probably don’t think about reducing your working days. Not yet! IMO.
new car every three years
Car warranty 3 years long, mot after 3 years. Makes sense to sell or trade in after 3 years and get a new one.
(to some people who can afford it)
Basic awareness of pensions (and credit cards etc…) should be taught at schools. Dunno if it is now, but it wasn’t when I was at school and I was completely clueless until I landed a job by chance at a pensions firm. Had zero guidance from my parents on it either. Just wasn’t spoken off at all. Maybe they were clueless too
I guess most of us are children of boomers and taught by boomers. Either you had a good pension, provided by the company where you probably spent your life, or you had no pension and we’re relying on state pension to see you through (but your own parents probably didn’t have a particularly long retirement), teachers typically had final salary / defined benefit pensions back then and so prob weren’t the ideal people to explain to average Joe.
Some men.
Most men.
Why is everyone advising waiting until retirement to downsize? Wouldn’t it make more sense to downsize earlier and put the released equity (assuming there is some otherwise my point is moot) into the pension pot and the associated tax boost?
Depends what you think will do better. House prices or pension funds. If house prices are going up quickly then it's tax free anyway so there's less point putting it into a pension fund, especially as most people dial back the risk (and thus potential reward) as they hit 50-60.
Depends how much value you can release and depends how you can get it into a pension. Assuming you can release a fairly big chunk, significantly more than the annual allowance, then you've got to have it sat in a normal savings account for a few years (paying tax on the interest) while you use it to make additional payments into the pension (unless it's so much money that it's worth putting into a pension quickly as the compound interest would outweigh not getting your 20-40% back from HMRC).
Most men.
What's the evidence?
Car warranty 3 years long, mot after 3 years. Makes sense to sell or trade in after 3 years and get a new one.
(to some people who can afford it)
"Makes sense" is doing some really heavy lifting there. Financially it's by far the most expensive way to never own a car (because it's on 3 year PCP). And reliability wise it's dubious Vs a slightly older car as you're in the poopy bit of the bathtub curve so probably no more likely to avoid a breakdown, it's just paid for if you do.
johndoh - did your employer all those years not tell you about their pension scheme and/or encourage you to join?
I never paid attention to the future early on. No pension etc, lived for the next night out.
When the auto enrollment was kicking off I asked the firm when they were joining / setting it all up. I got a piss poor response so I set up a stocks and shares ISA through an IFA.
I now have 2 pensions (one is pretty low) and a neat one thats growing.
My ISA currently makes (and loses) more on a daily basis than I pay in each month so I'm probably looking at setting up something else and increasing my pension contributions once my wife goes back to work.
I keep meaning to set up a pension for my 2 boys (5 & 2) and trickle funds in for them to give them a better / earlier start to their retirement.
As for downsizing, the estate I live has many folk who bought off plan in the 70s and now have one wee old biddie rattling around herself with carers coming to visit. I think it's a travesty the new estates aren't built with a whole mix of houses so there are places for people to downsize to and stay in the same community. My in-laws have a 4 bed house and want a smaller place but want a smaller detached bungalow with garden, garage and drive. They ain't gonna find that near them.
The thing is, most people seem to say that you need about a million quid in your pension pot to comfortably retire.
No, most people don't.
It's marketing spiel pushed out by some of the less scrupulous financial services companies.
What most people don't have is any clear understanding of how much they would need in a pension pot to fund different levels of pension lifestyle.
I use a chartered financial planner and have an accountant; neither have ever said anything to me about a 'target value' for my pension pot.
People with all their money in property are taking a hell of a risk IMO.
WRT men not doing well after retirement, there was a health/economics podcast that I listened to that covered it, can’t remember the exact one. It’s also something, sadly, that I see quite often as a GP.
I would love to be able to afford a mini retirement (career break) to go travelling but getting back on the treadmill would be hard. To be honest the thought of retiring gets me through my day at work. That in itself is pretty sad.
Mostly what @frankconway said.
Estimate what you’d want in retirement, see what you can save and invest, make a plan for how you’ll manage the difference when you consider the potential state pension.
I’d thought the ‘£1,000,000 target’ came from the £1,000,000 tax-free lifetime pension savings allowance.
This allowance was £1.5m when set in 2006. ‘Austerity’ Osborne reduced it to £1m 4 years later. In the last budget the limit was removed. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11862935/amp/Will-Budget-pension-lifetime-annual-allowance-changes-help-you.html
I keep meaning to set up a pension for my 2 boys (5 & 2) and trickle funds in for them to give them a better / earlier start to their retirement.
No harm in putting money aside for their future. My SO made sure we budgeted to save for the amount we’d have to top up our children’s maintenance costs at university. Good call.
5 & 2 seems a bit young for a pension? Will they be able to take advantage of the tax efficiency on the contributions you’ll be making?
We were recently reminded about the Child Trust Fund that Gordon Brown established for newborns back in the day. This scheme was stopped after a short time. Nonetheless, our children got their forms in and the £200(?) had turned into about £1,000. Sadly the investment program was not a great one. #1 child commented that it would have been worth 20% more if they’d cashed it in a year or so ago.
I think financial education and specifically retirement planning should be taught at school.
Given that people actually with jobs and 20 years to retirement don't "care" about pensions. How much do you think someone 60 years from retirement cares about it. Remember when we were 16 it was all live fast, die young, I won't make 30.
FYI
Free pension advice from independent source (*but just 1 hr and age limited, also pension type limited)
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/pensions-and-retirement/pension-wise
I used them and I got good advice. I’d suggest doing some homework first, getting a clear and full picture of all your finances, all current/existing pension details, savings, debts, commitments etc. Thinking realistically about when you want to retire and what your personal lifestyle wants are.
There’s a fair amount of evidence that retirement isn’t good for men.
My aim is to go on working for as long as possible.
Some men and an awful lot to of that is due to socioeconomic pressures
I'm retired and so much happier ( ignoring other stuff) than when working. All the men I know that are retired and for some of them thats 25 years retired and they are are happy and thriving.
I never lived to work. I always worked to live. I feel sorry for those who have their entire identities based on their work and who have no interests outside of work.
Given that people actually with jobs and 20 years to retirement don’t “care” about pensions. How much do you think someone 60 years from retirement cares about it. Remember when we were 16 it was all live fast, die young, I won’t make 30.
A part of the reason I became a nurse was for the pension. That was a decision made when I was under 20.
Same as Jeremy here.
Work to live.... no more.
Retired on a pittance and loving it.
Ignore all the braggards telling how big their pension pots are and how much they will have after working mega hours a week.
You need far far less to retire on than you think. Just live a more simple life.
johndoh – did your employer all those years not tell you about their pension scheme and/or encourage you to join?
No - the last time I was employed was 19 years ago so long before workplace pensions and they never had a pension scheme set up.
No harm in putting money aside for their future. My SO made sure we budgeted to save for the amount we’d have to top up our children’s maintenance costs at university. Good call.
yeah that’s one thing we have done - £100 a month for each child since they were about two years old - it won’t cover the full cost, but will certainly help.
Retirement is bad for most men.
Clearly ones who don't own a quiver of bicycles, a fleet of windsurfing boards, no friends ,multiple SUPs , carp fishing kit , sea fishing kit, a shed and garage , a set of tools , a house , a car or 2 . Don't get any pleasure from reading and probably haven't planned for any retirement whatsoever and still have significant others who think they are the sole keeper of a magical money tree which means holidays to the Seychelles are still possible.
Sure there's days in mid February where you might say to yourself You know what , I'd rather be at work today, but for 9 months of the year...hell no.
there is not a single day I have thought " I wish I was still working"I don't own all that stuff either. Just some bicycles
It's not about boredom and suicide.
There's a 40% increased risk of CVD and related issues in the year post retirement in men -toys doesn't fix that.
Women are likely to fare much better at around 1-1.55% increase in the same.
CVD cardio vascular disease
Correct, hobbies like carp fishing won't fix a blocked artery for sure.
But keeping your CV system in good shape by putting yourself through regular mild stress by cycling or surfing , sea swimming etc will almost certainly help than a sedantry lifestyle of zero exercise , poor diet and possibly increased alcohol consumption.
All of which aided my dad into a wooden box at 70 .
For balance - what the Daily Heil will resentfully refer to as a 'gold plated pension for some' (their paymasters resent these because we're not then over a barrel to employers who want to behave like total barstwards and rip up our contracts or force us only worse conditions) came at a cost.
I was paying nearly 25% of my salary into it for a long period of time (averaged about 20% for 30-odd years - increasing as the pension black hole got larger due to the Tory Gov of the 80s and early 90s letting companies have 'pension holidays' and not contributing themselves whilst employees still did, for years).
Have only lived in a small house for 20+ years - so no option for us to downsize and release equity, only had 2 foreign holidays (done cheaply staying with friends) in 20 years, have run older cars, and never had an 8 grand Santa Cruz or Specialized Turbo Levo in the shed or a VW T6 camper on the drive, no Sky TV etc.
WRT men not doing well after retirement, there was a health/economics podcast that I listened to that covered it, can’t remember the exact one. It’s also something, sadly, that I see quite often as a GP.
I'm healthier, fitter, faster on a bike, my blood pressure is down and I'm happier since retiring. I am lucky enough not to have any concerns about money, and because I'm a cyclist my base fitness was better than a lot of those my age, but I'm struggling to see any downsides to retirement.
It’s not about boredom and suicide.
There’s a 40% increased risk of CVD and related issues in the year post retirement in men -toys doesn’t fix that.
Women are likely to fare much better at around 1-1.55% increase in the same.
You're confusing correlation and causation.
Anecdote time - we had a shift manager retire after years of health problems with the ridiculous lump sum and pension that went with the job, didn't even last 3 months.
Was it retirement that killed him or the lifestyle leading up to it?
A lot of folk had the option to go at 55 but chose not to and stayed on until they were basically forced into it by failing health, I have no doubt this is true across industry.
The point about cutting your cloth to suit is also a good one, if you don't try to live a high roller lifestyle then there is less pressure to maintain it and easier to build a pot to go early.
I'm 52, my Dad was a copper and mum a housewife, there was no spare money to 'invest', in fact the house they bought at 20 for £3500, they owed £35,000 on by the time they moved at 50. So they didn't really have the knowledge to advise us kids. I suspect lots of 50 yr olds are in the same boat.
Over the last few years I have gained a lot of knowledge through a friend who's business has done well, so he's needed proper financial advice, plus Meaningful Money and James Shack.
I am now putting as much as possible into my Vanguard pension each year. And we put the full amount into a pension in our 12 year olds name this year too. The wife is a copper so at least we have one half decent pension.
Things I think I've learnt...
Martyn Lewis - the age you start your pension is the percentage of your wage that you will need to put in each year.
And if you put the full £2880 per year in for your child from 1-18, by the time they hit 68 it will potentially be worth £700,000 (sounds mad, so maybe I've misunderstood this)
My son will definitely have the understanding of compound interest that my Dad didn't give me.
Age 34 I bought a BTL and stopped paying into my pension, I really wish I'd carried on paying in.
I do also agree with those that want to live for now though. Your body and brain won't get any better and your kids are only young once. Perhaps it's better to think in terms of earning something until you can't rather than missing out on this part of your life.
I cram my hours into 4 days now (Barber) and try and use that extra day wisely.
And we put the full amount into a pension in our 12 year olds name this year too.
I'm not a fan of this approach, it ties the money up until they are 57 (probably older by the time they get there), when the chances are they'll need it for things like house deposits.
I did start a pension when my daughter was born, but rapidly decided that funding a child trust fund was a better option as the money is available when they reach 18.
But if you are in a position to do both then, yes , good idea.
And if you put the full £2880 per year in for your child from 1-18, by the time they hit 68 it will potentially be worth £700,000 (sounds mad, so maybe I’ve misunderstood this)
It's possibly correct but a misleading figure because 700k won't be worth as much in 70 years time. With inflation at 3% average prices double every 23 years, so in 70 years 700k is worth somewhere around 90k today - a reasonable amount but much closer to the 50k you put in
Was it retirement that killed him or the lifestyle leading up to it?
Well flipside anecdote is I've seen seemingly fit healthy people retire and succumb to it shortly after retiring(early) also.
And then also begs the question -whys it so prevalent in only men -in studies conducted up to 6.5 years post retirement -not discriminating wether it's early retirement or not.
Your no doubt both right and yes, we have a Vanguard S&S USA running for him too.
My Father in law died this year so we took the opportunity to add in the pension option too. The way I look at it, it's a good way to teach him these things early so he doesn't end up like a lot of us.
And then also begs the question -whys it so prevalent in only men -in studies conducted up to 6.5 years post retirement -not discriminating wether it’s early retirement or not.
Because men have a greater tendency to vegetate and are more likely to struggle with making new friends and developing new interests after they retire. In short for many men their work is a massive part of what defines them, and they struggle to replace it when it’s gone, women’s identities tend to be more diverse.
I should also add that I agree with whoever pointed out that growing really old looks a bit shit. On that note I've just signed Pru's Dignity for Dying, failing that, helium.
“Because men have a greater tendency to vegetate and are more likely to struggle with making new friends and developing new interests after they retire. In short for many men their work is a massive part of what defines them, and they struggle to replace it when it’s gone, women’s identities tend to be more diverse.”
not sure that applies to my generation (or below) - 90s child. Maybe cyclists ate skewed out of this as we have hobbies. And I’m sure if cycling is a hobby, you likely have others too or could easily swap to another one being comfortable joining clubs etc
I'm thinking that if I can't make £(p) last between starting to need a pension (r) and not needing a pension any more (d} perhaps I need to decrease (d-r) so that the p is a more useful number.
Either increase r, or decrease d.
Sure there’s days in mid February where you might say to yourself You know what , I’d rather be at work today, but for 9 months of the year…hell no.
I'd assume I'd suffered a significant head injury for that kind of depraved thought to enter my mind 😀
Have a friend who retired 5 years earlier than she thought she could IFA went through the numbers and reminded her that retirement has three stages each need a decreasing amount of money per year.
Go Go stage, Go Slow stage and No Go stage.
Having looked at my pension it's not as bad as I thought it might be.
There is a stark reminder about aging in the predictions. I am lucky enough to get a lump sum which is about 75% of my annual salary if I go at 60. If I stay on to 67 then it's 3x my salary and my annual pension increases by 50%. I know of no teachers who are thinking about going to the bitter end
@flannol - yeah that maybe true about younger generations?
To be clear, it happens to women as well as men, but IME it's much more common in men.
WRT growing old, it's what you make of it. The people I've seen do best are the ones who keep going for as long as possible doing as much as possible.
Kramer
Its not just younger generations. Im in my 60s and my peers who have retired do not face this. My parents in their late 80s as are their pals. None of them have been like that either.
