[Closed] Adding a webshop to an already existing site - £20k??

They can’t really tell me exactly where the time will be allocated and also why it is so expensive,

There's your answer. What other options do you have for adding the functionality you need though?

Is the company you are using the same company that built the original site?

Sounds pretty excessive to me. How many products?

If they're quoting for adding stock etc, chances are you can do that (and probably way faster if you buy wp-all-import or similar, can import 1000s directly from a CSV file).

Unless they're coding a brand new theme from scratch with a huge amount of customisation (in terms of functions / custom plugins) for the online shop (hence the 12 weeks to test/design) then this sounds excessive to me.

I'd get a breakdown of exactly what work they're carrying out, and if it is:

1. Work they are 100% carrying out themselves from scratch
or
2. Themes / Plugins that they are buying, customising and integrating.

There's nothing wrong with going down the 2nd route - it will save time and money (and will be thoroughly tested & updated to be future proof) - however it shouldn't cost £20K if the bulk of the work is buying and customising off the shelf solutions.

£20k for 12 weeks of a companies work isn't bad. I don't know if it is 12 weeks work but I would say that just because you have X doesn't mean you can "just add" Y. It may well require significant work on your existing systems. As ever get some more quotes. Wordpress stuff is well supported.

they can’t really tell me exactly where the time will be allocated and also why it is so expensive, i’ll be managing it in terms of taking off orders, updating stock etc…

This seams somewhat shady. When we quote for projects(research) you will get a breakdown of milestones/tasks and justification of why they may take longer.

Thanks folks, great insight as usual.

The website is upto date with all plugins and running the latest version of WP. The site is 3 years old was designed with teh specification that this update (webshop) would be happening at some point, so it should have been designed 'just' to be able to 'switch Woocommerce carts' on, link to bank accounts and away we go (very simplistic i know, but thats me!).

Are you using a standard woocommerce theme like storefront or is it a custom one? Lots has happened with Woo and Wordpress in the last 3 years so the spec from 3 years ago might not be suitable now.

Going from what you're saying, if it's essentially being turned from a catalogue into an online shop, and it's already using WooCommerce (and doesn't need much in the way of customisation) and they're not prepared to elaborate on the breakdown of costs then it sounds like they're ripping you off.

From what you've stated, unless something has been missed out, then this is nothing like £20Ks worth of work (nor 12 weeks worth of testing).

Is it 12 weeks constant work i.e. 12x40 hours or that's just the timeframe to complete but may require fewer hours?

This seams somewhat shady. When we quote for projects(research) you will get a breakdown of milestones/tasks and justification of why they may take longer.

Do you think all your customers understand exactly what you mean and none of them are ever going "bloody hell, 12 weeks to do that - I thought it would be a day and half".

The website is upto date with all plugins and running the latest version of WP. The site is 3 years old was designed with teh specification that this update (webshop) would be happening at some point, so it should have been designed ‘just’ to be able to ‘switch Woocommerce carts’ on, link to bank accounts and away we go (very simplistic i know, but thats me!).

Ask them just to do that then. Either they didn't deliver the spec you originally requested (an e-commerce ready site with the ability to process payments initially disabled) or you are underestimating whats needed.

FWIW, I'd have thought £20k/12 weeks was start from scratch territory for a simple e-commerce site being built on existing modules if you've no clever stock shipping integrations etc.

One think to be aware of (having spent all last weekend doing it) is if you are about to take payment you really want to test the hell out of stuff as issues people will tolerate with no cash involved become blown up when "you've taken my money and not confirmed my order" etc.

When I quote silly money for what seems like a simple job its because of one or both of these things:

1. the customer is a PITA and we'd actually wish they never spoke to us again. I've sent a quote for £2600 this morning for ~2hrs work for exactly this reason. OR
2. we are worried about the risk / scope creep involved especially for something we've never done before or where the client is insisting on doing it a particular way.

Often both are linked. Any chance they don't want the business or you are making it more complex for them.

On the face of it £20k sounds expensive. I don't know many web developers who focus on a single project for the projected timeframe - that 12 weeks will, in all likelihood be a slot here and there along with their other projects. It would be better to find out how many hours it will take.

That said there just isn't enough info to know for sure. If it is a bespoke site with custom coding, all the secure payment facilities, the database and its initial configuration etc then £20k may not be excessive.

We have been quoted something similar for an internal web based insurance quote system but that would include a lot of custom coding, back office finance functions, CRM capabilities etc and I know exactly how much work it will be as I have been involved in drafting the spec and have been involved in similar projects in the past.

If it is cobbling together an e-trade front end using various WP plug-ins and perhaps some facilities provided by your web host then it sounds a lot and would possibly be something you could have a go at yourself. Plenty of very simple to use e-trade frontends out there to play with...

Another consideration is that world + dog wants an ecommerce site at the moment. Maybe they are cashing in on this while demand is high.

It shouldn't be any bespoke coding, the reason i chose WP was to avoid this. There is nothing bespoke or custom on the entire site.

@poly

1. i doubt it's because i'm a PITA, in fact im a doddle to work with. Very low maintenance!!
2. nothing complex, just a straightforward webshop with 16 items.

I'd prefer to know its being tested thoroughly and fit for purpose, i get all that, it's just the price breakdown seems way too high to me...no stock control, no site additions, no special projects..

I have a meeting with them in a few hours as i want to know exactly what i'm paying for, something which has been skirted around.

A web shop selling 16 items, built on existing Wordpress/Woocommerce templates, with no stock control etc needed?
20k sounds utterly insane to me for that.

(I work in this area, though admittedly no experience with Wordpress or Woocommerce directly)

I set up mine in Wix over a weekend with most of the time being getting the pictures uploaded properly. I have since found out I should have given them sensible names as "20190212_173919" being displayed when you click on the photo isn't great but it all seems to work.

2 separate product groups plus an overview of everything. A private viewing area for members full payment enabled.

NicksArtStuff.com

Am I reading this correctly?

"It'll be £20k for 12 weeks work."

"That's fine, what are you going to be doing in those twelve weeks?"

"We don't know."

Get a second quote. Even if it's above board and competitively priced, you don't spend twenty grand on a service and blindly go with the first supplier you see.

16 items, no custom work = 12 weeks plus £20k = taking the p*ss!

TBH with you, I'd say £2k is steep for that kind of work.. unless we're missing something here, sounds like a few days work absolute max.

Yeah given what you describe I will happily do it for £15k. Actually what I'd then do is what my friend does which is to sub out the work for £1-2k and pocket rest as that is the maximum something like that should cost.

To be honest, it really is something you could DIY without too much fear of buggering it up...

err yeah 20k.. pfft. £2K as joeydeacon says is still very steep for what you have described..

As someone else earlier on said - it's all within the realms of doing yourself, no probs. But I also get wanting other people to do stuff - there's plenty of things I know I can do myself, but just don't have the time.

For comparison, my wife recently taught herself how to make a couple of websites using WordPress. She started working for a local fair trade shop and made them a whole new website, with click and collect stuff, in just a few weeks part time. ( https://www.headingtonfairtrade.org.uk/)

So I reckon it's very likely to be something that you either do yourself with a but of time and inclination, or else find someone way cheaper. She says she could probably do it in a few days and for more like a grand! I guess it's possible that there's more to it than seems obvious though!

20k for 12weeks would be a good rate but 12 weeks sounds a huge amount of time for that if set up correctly.  For reference I had someone change the payment system on one of our sites recently and it took them a week (not Wordpress).

12 weeks sounds like how long it would take them to learn the module and get it running from scratch.  I would be looking at a second quote as the variation in price for the same thing can be huge.  It's also useful just to not be tied into one company as they can pull your trousers down at any moment.  They might be correct at 12weeks but I would want a lot more info, that sounds huge.

They may just quote high as their way of turning down a project with a badly written spec. The above doesn’t make any sense as to what you actually want with clear tasks to quote against line by line.

Sounds like you already have woo x wp x PayPal + inventory and are fine with woo cart. What do you actually need done?

I've been out of the game for a few years now, but the last place I worked would be 20k minimum for anything ecommerce related. I've also worked other places that would do it for less than 2k but I would not recommend them to anyone. You're right to question it because there are a lot of cowboys and chancers, but it's incredibly difficult to put a price on anything with so little detail. It might be WP but it doesn't mean it'll seamlessly bolt together. Any kind of software development is very time consuming and this stuff is rarely plug and play, otherwise you could do it yourself.

I would however expect a detailed spec whatever the cost.

This should be on Rogue Traders with the BBC presenter in a cupboard.

Do you think all your customers understand exactly what you mean and none of them are ever going “bloody hell, 12 weeks to do that – I thought it would be a day and half”.

You are missing the point. The company quoting the OP are avoiding this information

Off on a tangent...

What’s the business case?

Is this going to drive £2m annual incremental sales and £200k of net margin?

If so, then £20k is not really an issue.

As others say, there needs to be more info to guage the value for money.

But a starting point should be the business case. Then judge the criticality of the work in delivering the business case.

If £10’s of millions will drift in regardless, then go ahead. If you think the site will deliver only £50k extra income, then (obviously) the proposal is too much.

Start with some fag packet numbers and go from there.

2. we are worried about the risk / scope creep involved

This. If you’re vague (we have no idea what you’ve said to them, but the info here is vague) then they need to quote assuming it’s going to be one of those “piece of string” processes. Also, we don’t actually know what they’ve told you the work involves… but failing to do a detailed spec at the quote stage could be because they don’t really know what it is you want yet. Or, as others have hinted at, they currently have work to be getting on with that they won’t take people off unless you’re paying money the other clients are not.

TLDR: sounds expensive, but we don’t know enough to help you

> I’ve been out of the game for a few years now, but the last place I worked would be 20k minimum for anything ecommerce related.

This. Good developers are expensive to employ. And if you're happy with the site they originally built you, using the same people is often a smart move because they'll know the codebase, which customisations have been made, and how everything is set up and hosted.

They can’t really tell me exactly where the time will be allocated and also why it is so expensive,

Regardless of the problem / solution, if a company can't explain their quote, I wouldn't do business with them at all. You would expect to get an outline project plan with basic milestones, effort required to achieve each one and a description of what will be working at each milestone.

OP have you discussed and agreed the project scope - defining exactly what will be done and by when? If not, how exactly have you/they arrived at a figure of £20k?

Value for money or not, do not agree to anything without an agreed project scope.

Once you've got a spec, take the same spec and shop around for more quotes. WP + WooCommerce 'experts' are ten a penny.

Edit: Just seen the post above, I'm kinda repeating what has already been said by Footflaps.

NB An alternative solution is just to sell via Ebay / Amazon / Etsy etc and just add a link to your eShop on your website.

What WP theme is your site based on? If it’s a commercial one rather than homegrown you should’ve able to access the developers forum and find another company that can add the functionality you want. For example, I use a version of this one albeit without e-commerce enabledEnvision Shop Theme And I know that I could find somebody to add WooCommerce to it for a small amount of money or use the supplied documentation to DIY.

Another option is Shopify - they do a Wordpress plugin so relatively seamless integration. I build my own e-commerce store in Shopify with no prior to experience - there was one tiny bit of coding I had to do to incorporate product customisation (lots of online tutorials). If you only need it for 16 products, you'll be at the lowest subscription level. The good thing about Shopify is that they're one of the biggest e-commerce platforms so have really good reliability / security as well as a number of payment options. I've never had a problem with mine in 2.5 years.