I'd be interested to read a justification of why someone should be denied essential medical care in a nation which prides itself as being a 'civilised country'
Would a justification be that said medical care isn't required at all, but is just a pathetically transparent stalling tactic to prevent him facing the justice he so richly deserves?
For a man so avowed to the destruction of the Great Satan, he seems remarkably reluctant to go and have it out with them himself. Though I note no such hesitation when sending gullible half-wits to go and do the same on his behalf
Do they not have medical care in America? I know it isn't that good in some other regimes that'd quite like to have a word with him about a few things
Sorry Mike but it's hard to have any sympathy for a certified hypocrite. For a bloke who hates the west so much, he's trying bloody hard to stay here...
Interesting, that Hamza himself is quoted as saying that Britain is "a paradise, where you could do anything you wanted".
Granted, he does appear to be a tad unsavoury, and his views are a little extreme to say the least. but personally, I feel he should be treated with all the medical care a human being deserves, regarldess of any other consideration. Because if we as a nation failed to do so, then we fail as a humane and egalitarian society.
As for those who advocate Hamza being denied medical care, as well as possibly being tortured/killed etc; how do you think you fundamentally differ to a man who does not believe in erquality, and would see those different and opposed to himself murdered? Seeing as you appear to share similar ideals?
The same system that banged up all those critical mass pedalists.
I read an article in the Law gazette yesterday, about a solicitor who represented 30 of the 182 arrested. Unsurprisingly, out of those 182, the police will be taking no further actin against all but 16 of them. which opens the probability of wrongful arrest suits being filed.
The 'system' isn't perfect, but is it nor our duty as citizens, in a 'civilised country', to ensure we try to make it so?
If he uses an iPhone?
Dont worry he would never be able to find his way to the hospital with that piece of crap
a paradise, where you could do anything you wanted".
source - google was of little help
The 'system' isn't perfect, but is it nor our duty as citizens, in a 'civilised country', to ensure we try to make it so?
thanks to you and your mates provocative actions i can feel that day getting ever closer , no really I can.
Mike you have a point but its also fair to say so do those who are saying the opposite of you
If he uses an iPhone?
Dont worry he would never be able to find his way to the hospital with that piece of crap
ha ha! Be careful, lest you invoke the wrath of the fundamentalists.
Granted, he does appear to be a tad unsavoury, and his views are a little extreme to say the least.
And there we have it. Understatement of the decade. Whats your views on Hitler Mike? Just a bit misunderstood? Bless him. If only someone would have sat him down, put a welcoming arm around his shoulder, and tried to get to the bottom of why he doesn't like those Jewish folk?
could you use a touch screen with a hook?
What an absurd thing to say. Nobody has suggested anything based on skin colour, disabilities, even politics or religious views. It's been based on him being a wanted criminal, so don't skew things to suit your own argument.
Various comments alluded to his religious beliefs, his disability and his culture. As for him being a 'wanted criminal; he hs been convicted of various offences in the Uk, but for nothing more than being a shouty racist bastard really. I can't find any evidence of him having been convicted of any other crime, just lots of allegations. I'm not saying he's innocent, but surely everyone accused of crime has the right to defend themselves, no? And if we are to go on the premise of 'innocent until proven guilty', then aren't claims about him being a 'mass murderer' a tad libellous? the whole issue with his exrtradition is that it will be to a country not exactly famous for having equality of justice and humane standards in detention.
As for the 'PC' crap being slung my way; how sad that the only defence of the ignorant is to start spouting rubbish like that. i'm simply one who feels that law, order and justice must be fair and equal at all times. I'm sorry that you don't feel the dsame.
Interesting, that Hamza himself is quoted as saying that Britain is "a paradise, where you could do anything you wanted"
hes not wrong is he ?where else on the planet could you spout vitriol like that and not get banged up or stoned ,the adventurer in me wants just bob on over to the holyland and set out my anti mohammed stall but i fear my live televised burning might come all too soon
recentley in another story anti mohammed guy got banged up in hours and poor old Rushdie is still hiding in a wardrobe somewhere
On a quick note theres been a nock on the door
I'm not saying he's innocent, but surely everyone accused of crime has the right to defend themselves, no?
That's exactly what he's been invited over to the good 'ol U S of A to do Michael. It generally tends to be the point of extradition proceedings. Did you miss that bit?
I hope he dies soon, the racist, hypocritical, Anglo hating c&8nt!
Various comments alluded to his religious beliefs, his disability and his culture.
People are allowed to comment though aren't they mike? Nobody has suggested that's he's bad because he's a muslim/brown etc.
As for him being a 'wanted criminal; he hs been convicted of various offences in the Uk, but for nothing more than being a shouty racist bastard really.[b] I can't find any evidence of him having been convicted of any other crime[/B]
He was found guilty on Six Counts of Soliciting Murder ?
Slightly worse than "being a bit shouty" wouldn't you say 🙄
for balance; I hope he dies soon, the racist, hypocritical, non-Anglo hating c&8nt!
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And if we are to go on the premise of 'innocent until proven guilty', then aren't claims about him being a 'mass murderer' a tad libellous?
Well, a bit strong, perhaps, and he's welcome to sue, I guess, although it's debatable whether someone already convicted and jailed for soliciting murder has much of a reputation to base his libel claim on.
What exactly is this 'deterioration' he's claiming? No doubt something rather intangible and resistant to firm diagnosis. Last gasp stalling by his legal team, who would probably be better employed in the service of someone who really needs representation in our courts.
for balance; I hope he dies soon, the racist, hypocritical, non-Anglo hating c&8nt!
Too right! They're both as bad as each other in my books. Both should except that Britain is made up of a mix of cultures, and the general exceptance of this is what make this country what it is!
I thought he was supposed to go to Jordan not the USA.
[i]I thought he was supposed to go to Jordan not the USA.[/i]
that woman's got a lot to answer for then.
He's being extradited to Peter Andre's old bedroom? 😯
he could try the 'cruel and unusual' punishment appeal next then, I guess.
And exclamation marks.
Don't forget those, very important.
hes not wrong is he ?where else on the planet could you spout vitriol like that and not get banged up or stoned ,the adventurer in me wants just bob on over to the holyland and set out my anti mohammed stall but i fear my live televised burning might come all too soon
And doesn't that make you feel proud to be British, to live in a nation where freedom of speech is the right of every single person here? and that we have a legal system that treats everyone fairly and without prejudice?
Last gasp stalling by his legal team, who would probably be better employed in the service of someone who really needs representation in our courts.
Oh without doubt. They will be on big money for such a high-profile case. But those involved will be using every single letter of the law to defend their client, as they should be expected to. and i think it's important that such cases are given such attention, as it shows that our legal system is working as it should.
That's exactly what he's been invited over to the good 'ol U S of A to do Michael. It generally tends to be the point of extradition proceedings. Did you miss that bit?
no, but I missed the bit where he will indeed get a fair trial in a country known for a rather less than fair legal system (Jordan or the USA, I don't think it matters in this respect).
then aren't claims about him being a 'mass murderer' a tad libellous?
nope
no, but I missed the bit where he will indeed get a fair trial in a country known for a rather less than fair legal system.
Can you please supply me with any evidence that he wouldn't receive a fair trail please? Its just that the High Court, The House of Lords and the European Court of Human Rights all reckon that he will.
Unless you know something they don't..... ?
You guys you're so funny. Abu Qatada was to be extradited to Jordan you know that country in the Middle East. Not Abu Hamza.
http://news.sky.com/story/989801/abu-hamza-in-high-court-extradition-challenge
Can you please supply me with any evidence that he wouldn't receive a fair trail please?
sure. It's called Guantanamo bay.
He's not going to Guantanamo Bay though, is he? As that is reserved for 'enemy combatants' captured in war zones. Or Bagram airbase. or Ascension Isle. Or Jordan. Or the Hague. or Benidorm
So... evidence he won't receive a fair trial please
And doesn't that make you feel proud to be British, to live in a nation where freedom of speech is the right of every single person here? and that we have a legal system that treats everyone fairly and without prejudice
Yes , except when someone is taking the piss out of it.
i think it's important that such cases are given such attention, as it shows that our legal system is working as it should
Pretty sur eit is designed to dish out justice - we are at 8 years in and still no justioce here [ whatever the verdict] so i dont think it is actually working and if it is we could speed it up by a few years.
I missed the bit where he will indeed get a fair trial
inshallah
He's not going to Guantanamo Bay though, is he?
You asked for evidence that somoene extradited to the USA won\'t get a fair trial. So i mentioned Gitmo, where hundreds of inmates who have been extradited to the USA have ended up. Many habve been there for years without trial. Many have been released without ever standing trial. Imprisonment without trial is something the ECHR is against, but Gitmo isn't on US soil, so doesn't count.
As that is reserved for 'enemy combatants' captured in war zones
Is it really? I suggest you read up on Moazzem Begg, then. Who was arrested in Islamabad, ****stand, then handed over to US officials and subsequently rendited to Gitmo. He was not an 'enemy combatant captured in a war zone'.
You asked for evidence that [b]somoene[/b] extradited to the USA won\'t get a fair trial.
No I didn't. I asked specifically why [b]ABU HAMZA[/b] (the person this thread is about, lest we forget) won't receive a fair trial.
Fire away....
You asked for evidence that somoene extradited to the USA won\'t get a fair trial. So i mentioned Gitmo, where hundreds of inmates who have been extradited to the USA have ended up
I didn't think that any of the gitmo residents had been extradited? I thought that they had been rendered?
He was not an 'enemy combatant captured in a war zone'.
Oh yes... one of those 'on holiday' from Birmingham, in the mountains between ****stan and Afghanistan, in the middle of a war, who just wandered inadvertently close to a terrorist training camp?
Yip... entirely believable story, that. Do you ever open the door to salesmen Mike? I would kindly suggest you don't
EDIT: In his own words.....
Begg admits spending time at two Islamic militant training camps in Afghanistan, supporting militant Muslim fighters, buying a rifle and a handgun, that he "thought about" taking up arms in Chechnya, and being an acquaintance of people linked to terrorism (most notably, Khalil al-Deek, Dhiren Barot, and Shahid Akram Butt), he denies the remainder of the U.S.'s allegations.
Nope.. you're right Mike... how, in the name of Allah, did the poor lamb end up being classed as an 'enemy combatant' 🙄
No I didn't. I asked specifically why ABU HAMZA (the person this thread is about, lest we forget) won't receive a fair trial.
because many of those who have been extradited to the USA haven't recieved fair trials. How much more 'evidence do you need?
Did Osama bin Laden get a fair trial?
Hand him over and let Uncle Sam treat him, yo
They have the fantastic medical facilities but you have to pay for it
get him fit and healthy - then torture the crap out of him
then maybe give him a trial
namby pamby nanny state
because many of those who have been extradited to the USA haven't recieved fair trials
And you saying that is 'evidence'?
Did Osama bin Laden get a fair trial?
When was he extradited?
Did Osama bin Laden get a fair trial?
Did he deserve one? Can you find me the bit where he denies murdering thousands of people on 9/11. I know he's a bit of a wallflower, but from memory I seem to recall he was quite proud of the fact. And may have subsequently made the odd mention of it in his televised Fanzines
Feel free to prove me wrong though. You're doing well so far. If only Hooky had had him defending him eh?
Oh yes... one of those 'on holiday' from Birmingham, in the mountains between ****stan and Afghanistan, in the middle of a war, who just wandered inadvertently close to a terrorist training camp?
Oh dear, your ignorance really is staggering on this one. Begg was arrested in the ****stani capital, Islamabad (I'd already mentioned this). Last time I checked, it wasn't a 'war zone'. Begg was released without charge, never having stood trial.
And Begg has never been convicted of any criminal offence, here in the UK or in the USA. So whilst you may have your prejudiced opinions of him, he is, in the eyes of English law at least, an innocent man. Feel free to prove me wrong.
He may have been in Islamabad when he was picked up. Where had he been prior to that Mike? According to his own book? A clue for you: see my quote above
Oh... and details of how Osama was framed while you're at it please 😆
Did Osama bin Laden get a fair trial
The problem is , and I do get your point, but there is something uncomfortbable about extending western rights and liberties to folk who attack and despise these very same rights/liberties. When they fight to excercise theirs it is hard to sympathise as they are , frnakly, just taking the piss
I dont like having the piss taken out of the system in this way
Did they/will they get fair trials , probably not but there is probably something in their world view about an eye for an eye and those who live by the sword
Yes officer... I may well have attended 2 Bank Robbery training courses recently. And you may well have caught me outside the bank vault with a large haul of high explosives, and my "idiots Guide to Safe-Blowing' handbook, but I can assure you I was merely passing, and bank robbery was the furthest thing from my mind
Mike - if you ever want to buy a used car, will you buy it off me please?
He may have been in Islamabad when he was picked up. Where had he been prior to that Mike? According to his own book? A clue for you: see my quote above
so, he wasn't in a war zone then? Glad to see you admitting you were wrong, thanks.
Again: Do you have any proof to prove that he is guilty of any crimes? Proof that neither the UK or US authorities could find?
Th eproblem is , and I do get your point, but ther eis something uncomfortbable about extending western rights and liberiotioes to folk who attack and despise these very same rights. When they fight to excercise theirs it is hard to sympathise as they are taking the piss
If we deny human beings the rights we believe they should have, then we descend to the level of barbarism. Better that some 'take the piss' tyhan to be denied equal rights under law. by acting with dignity, we prove ourselves to be better than those who wish to attack us and deny us our fundamental rights, no?
Mikeconnor = Fred
Mikeconnor = Fred
Shhh...
We all know that but he runs away when it's mentioned
Hence the mention.
Mikeconnor = Fred
West? Flintstone? Perry? care to explain please? or is this some attempt at an insult?
Mikeconnor = Fred
West? Flintstone? Perry? care to explain please? or is this some attempt at an insult?
