[Closed] A warning to Red Light Jumpers

Too much is not shown in that video.

Only if youare a black man - not if you are white woman

On 28 July 2011, Toyin Agbetu witnessed a young African in handcuffs feeling harassed and eventually being arrested after being stopped for cycling past a red light near hackney mare Street, London.

In this clip you see his frustration at being targeted in what seems a racist operation as the same officers ignored a european woman who did exactly the same thing. The officer creates an excuse that he cannot verify the name of the young man or reconcile him with the name on his credit card despite passer-bys fully identifying the young man.

Must have missed the racist bit, I just saw a ****t making things worse for himself due to his big gob. He sounded more english than african to me too. Honestly it's enough to make you want to go and loot richer sounds.

Can someone tell me what the officer did wrong because I'd be very interested to read it.

Its not an arrestable offence, the police refused to accept his ID. He was a gobby get for sure. However on the surface its an abuse of power and quite possibly racist. He provided them with ID would they have treated a white guy the same? They didn't treat a white woman the same ( if the commentary is to be believed)

Watched the first 5 seconds, thought dumb **** and switched it off! No respec for the law!!!

wrightyson + 1

Reminds me of this.

Hmmm.......

I thought if the police were not satisfied as to your true identity relating to any finE that was grounds for arrest? Seems like the situation there tbh.

Lucky he didnt get done for public disorder aswell with all the foul whiney abuse he was shouting. If he shut his mouth and accepted the ticket he wouldn't have been arrested. Idiot.

Who bets he was running down the street with a big tv last night....?

Racism is a hard thing to explain. Statistics relating to stop and search if you are young male and black are revealing.

🙁 Daft Babylonians

Statistics relating to stop and search if you are young male and black are revealing.

you're a policeman, if you knew that people from a dodgy area of your city were statistically more likely to come into town and commit crimes, and everyone wore a badge saying where they were from, would you be more inclined to stop and search those from the dodgy area?

So he showed them "ID" did he? They would have carried out checks on that which would have put that "ID" you mention in doubt.there is no such thing as an arrestable offence for your info.any offence is if it meets certain criteria like being unable to confirm idenitity. I ask again,what did he do wrong?!

Like I said racism is hard to explain.
Brakes your analogy is poor but makes a point. That is called profiling, in this case based on race. What you are in fact saying is it's okay to stop dark skinned people and search them because some dark skinned people have committed crimes,(but more specifically you don't know what these figures are). If that does not bother you, well I haven't the energy to talk you round.
Also you are conflating stop and search statistics with crime statistics.

TandemJeremy - Member
Only if youare a black man - not if you are white woman

Not exactly Tandem I was given a hard warning some 13 years back and I am White man.

I'm a middle aged white male who frequently rides an expensive bike in the middle of the night while wearing a rucksack.
If the police want to stop and search me to meet their ethnic diversity targets I'd be glad of the company and a chance to chat to them about the marmalade sandwiches, bananas and soya yoghurt I'm carrying.

you could be on dodgy ground with soya yoghurt you know

Who bets he was running down the street with a big tv last night....?

As I know the young mayn in the video no more than I know you, what's the bet you were running down the street with a nicked telly last night? Just as likely a scenario in the big scheme of things, in't it?

As for racial profiling; when I was a yute, we used to get the white lads in our 'gang' to carry any drugs, as they were far less likely, if we got pulled over, to get searched. I've bin in situations where the white lads were told to 'go home' without even being asked their names,whiles us darkies were questioned and searched. I've bin and seen mates racially abused by police officers. Sadly, there were quite a few racist coppers in the local police force when I was young. I hope the situation has changed, and it does seem the coppers today are nowhere near as bigoted, but profiling still exists and is racially prejudicial by it's nature.

The lad in the video is a gobby git but that's not a crime. The copper seemed inept and a bit overwhelmed by the fact an intelligent rational person was asking him questions. As for the credit card, well if it were nicked then he's bang to rights.

One thing is clear though; a number of people on here jolly well have not a clue what they're talking about, as per bloody usual.... 🙄

Brakes your analogy is poor but makes a point.

the point being that there is a distinction between racism and profiling, but that distinction is a very wobbly one

...a number of people on here jolly well have not a clue what they're talking about...

I was at work Elfin so no late night tv hunting here.

But if that chap in the video has that much respect for a police officer issuing a ticket it's probably surely a slight possibility he has similar respect for local businesses and property...

But that's just me profiling.

The straw man here is hurting my brain.

But if that chap in the video has that much respect for a police officer issuing a ticket it's probably surely a slight possibility he has similar respect for local businesses and property...

I don't have a great deal of respect for the police based on a number of negative experiences and numerous cases of them failing in their duties, but I have respect for local businesses and property.

So, where are you now?

Still judgemental and prejudiced, I'd imagine.

"Profiling"...The new name for racism?

Or just being stupid?

Statistics relating to stop and search if you are young male and black are revealing.

I'll bet many of the folk (of all colours) who moan about being stopped and searched are the same ones out terrorising innocent shopkeepers the last few days, thereby pretty much confirming the police as being right all along.

Not watched the video yet because I can't right now, but the subsequent discussion reminds me of a little tale.

A mate of mine used to drive a Sierra Cosworth back in the day. Ford tiger stripes, wide wheels and lowered to the point of the tyres catching on the wheel arches if he cornered too heavily, drove everywhere like his head was on fire.

He was bemoaning his lot to me one day about being constantly harassed by the police. "It's because I'm a young black lad in a fancy car," he told me. He seemed genuinely shocked when I suggested that it might just be because he drove like a ****.

I don't doubt that racism occurs, and I expect in the 70s / 80s it was endemic in and out of the police forces (though I'd hope it's considerably less these days); however, I'd reject the implication that that's the only reason that youths of darker skin get stopped by the police. To wit,

Statistics relating to stop and search if you are young male and black are revealing.

I'm sure they are, but you need to be very careful about what conclusion you draw from that. Does it imply prejudice, or does it indicate the demographic most likely to be behaving in a manner that would draw attention / merit a stop & search?

I live in East Lancashire, and the vast majority of lunatic (fast, erratic) drivers I see are a) male as close to exclusively as makes no odds, b) young in the vast majority of cases, and c) black probably more often than not but less of a majority than the others. Ie, the largest demographic I'd expect to be stopped are young black men; the second largest I'd expect to see are young white men. Do the statistics bear that out?

That is so dense and myopic it hurts.

Far more black men are stopped and searched than white. It confirms prejudice according to this

It confirms prejudice

Not necessarily. Could equally be the police targeting the folk they think most likely to be carrying knives.

So you didn't read the report.

No - it confirms prejudice - thats what the report says.

arrests are more likely after stops on white men. Innocent black men get stopped far more than innocent white men.

Far more black men are stopped and searched than white. It confirms prejudice according to this

Conclusion
The pattern of entrenched disproportionate
use of stop and search powers on people
from ethnic minority communities is
[b]consistent with the evidence on racial
prejudice and stereotyping[/b]. On the other
hand, none of the arguments set out earlier
in this chapter provide a satisfactory
explanation as to why in some areas of the
country different racial groups are targeted
relatively equitably, while in others black
people in particular are much more likely to
be stopped and searched than white people.
Arguments based on generalisations
about some racial groups being more
‘available’ to stop and search or more
likely to commit particular types of crime
are highly problematic. The evidence
supporting such claims is unreliable and,
in any case, when making the decision to
stop and search police officers are legally
obliged to have ‘reasonable suspicion’
that the person involved has committed
an offence. Reasonable suspicion must be
based on objective evidence in each case
rather than generalised beliefs about the
behaviour of people from particular social
or racial groups.
[b]The evidence points to racial
discrimination being a significant reason
why in many areas of the country people
from ethnic minority communities, black
people in particular,[/b] are so much more
likely to be stopped and searched by
the police than their white neighbours.
It implies, in other words, that [b]stop
and search powers are being used in a
discriminatory and unlawful way[/b]

I'll bet many of the folk (of all colours) who moan about being stopped and searched are the same ones out terrorising innocent shopkeepers the last few days, thereby pretty much confirming the police as being right all along.

Black people are at least six times as likely to be stopped and searched as white people.

Presumably I missed the bit where they proved that more black men being stopped than white proves prejudice - care to point it out to me?

You've highlighted some assertions there, TJ. I don't see any hard data. "The evidence points to" - what evidence?

given the disproportionate rate what reason would you give here?

I would also like your account of why this disproportionate rate is legitimate

Thats the conclusions based on the evidence gathered. Have a read - there is lots of hard data in it.

Go on TJ, humour me, pick out some of that hard evidence which actually proves their assertions without recourse to waffle.

All sorts of reasons given in that doc TJ linked to - none of which I could see it adequately shooting down with any proper evidence.

I'm not asserting that it is - simply questioning the assertion that it proves racial discrimination.

TandemJeremy - Member
No - it confirms prejudice - thats what the report says.

arrests are more likely after stops on white men. Innocent black men get stopped far more than innocent white men.

So is it a FACT?

so you accept it occurs disproportionately according to race and deny it is racism

TandemJeremy - Member
Only if youare a black man - not if you are white woman

Once pulled over by the Police I asked why me & not the others doing the same, his response...

"have you ever been fishing?"

"No... Why?"

"Because you can't catch them all"

Strangely Im white & he was Black, I didn't cry racist... was I wrong not to? 🙄

so you accept it occurs disproportionately according to race and deny it is racism. So again the reason is what?

Does it consider the race of the officer in each instance?