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How many higher rate taxpayers have ever been made homeless by government policy?
Get some bloody perspective.
People are dying because of welfare cuts.
according to bbc website i ll be £6.67 better off every month .
it is a disgrace that disabled people are going to be worse off because of it .
G O and his pals have no morals whatsoever .
Why are people not in the streets is beyond me , i think you need a training course with french farmers .
Context is everything... Maybe making disabled benefits more streamlined in the right palces is appropriate but there will always be collateral damage which will result in deaths, increased suffering and hardship within a section of society who are already having it hard enough compared to the majority of others..howver it's the context this is done in..MP's kept their payrise and economists today all agreed that it was the top 10% wealthiest who 'made the most' out of this budget...so quite obviously these cuts are not equal across all social boundaries.
Simple fact is...it's choices. Government are choosing to cut benefits (knowing full well the consequences) when they could quite easily choose to leave them alone and raise the money elsewhere. They have chosen to hit some of the most disadvantaged...how you perceive that is obviously up to you. But if you know anything about politics you'll also know if was simply choice - not necessity - to hit the most disadvantaged ( As has been demonstrated by Tories own backbenches telling them to choose not to do it)..
Since old Gideon seems to be missing all his targets and the amount of borrowing keeps going up and up along with a noticeable decrease in public services offered for the (increased) money we put in are we going to admit he's made a pigs ear of the finances yet? I thought they told us they were the safe bet and labour would mess things up?
It's quite obvious that this mob had thought they'd spouted enough guff that people seemed to believe, scared enough people into not taking a risk (ha,ha) and diverted enough attention on to the scrounging immigrants/disabled/jobless/homeless/low paid that they could do exactly as they liked. Seems there might actually be some resistance and fight left after all!
...the general direction of travel of shrinking the deficit is a good thing...
I agree with this, but am also deeply shocked by how much this government has borrowed.
I saw a breakdown of where my tax goes the other day - the amount servicing the [b]interest[/b] on the national debt is horrendous. It's more than is spent on defence!
I'd be interested to know what constitutes 'welfare' too. I can't imagine running job centres costs more than a modern army, navy and air force.
This isn't the same image as the one on my tax return, but is certainly in the same ballpark.
[img] 
[/img]
Pm-j, iirc the 'welfare' part of that diagram includes public sector pensions which in effect were paid for/into by public sector employees a generation ago: although 'ponzi scheme' has a slight whiff of of sour grapes, i agree that the funding is rather different and stupidly short-termist compared to a 'normal' pension, and anyway maybe better off breaking public sector pension expenditure into the relevant areas and including them in the spend eg health service pensions into health spending, teachers in education etc. . I had a similar government funded [s]conservative party mailshot[/s] helpful tax summary in the post a couple of years ago.
[url= http://https://fullfact.org/economy/what-you-need-know-about-treasurys-tax-statement/ ]Full Fact sauce from 2014 here.[/url]
Probably quite a few, if they lose their jobs. Being a higher rate taxpayer doesn't make you rich (my definition of that being someone who isn't immediately in trouble if they don't get paid at the end of the month!).
IDS resigns over the cuts.
First major resignation under Cameron, will be interesting, however the fact he is an outer is probably a factor too.
IDS resigns over cuts?
Do you hear that?
That's the sound of irony being brutally murdered.
It appears that all government activity now revolves around who gets to be big chief big bollocks in the Tory party.
Hurray for democracy!
Julian thanks for the good news. Public sector pensions paid for. Phew all the scare stories about they way they are funded just nonsense. We can all sleep easy now
Thm, where did I say all that?
Damn misread it. Still a Ponzi scheme then.
Demonising anyone who takes a different viewpoint seems to be an increasing problem in modern politics
Who's being demonised?
Uh, that Ponzi scheme comes up again and again in your posts and yet still no one does anything about it. Along with "theft": you should really report these crimes.
[edit] Wandering off my post pointing out the unhelpfulness of the tax summary graphic and that state, private and public sector pensions all come from different places and different times. In doing so, I thought 'stupidly short term ist' was probably a more helpful description than what if it was in the legal sense a Ponzi scheme, would be a phenomenally large scale pan-government pan-generational financial crime that has inexplicably never been brought to justice.
Perhaps for the purposes of balance you could also suggest a more accurate description and to-approved term of reference for tendering/contracting of health than 'privatisation' since you (in the true legal factual sense correctly!) point out that it isn't.
THM, my scheme was funded by the members but various governments stole the money put in to spend as they wished. The money has been paid in yet we got blamed after it had been spent and now needs to be replaced.
The cynic in me thinks IDS is resigning solely to damage Osbourne and the "In" campaign re Brexit. By kicking Osbourne and Cameron right now he's helping Brexit, a cause he is championing and nailing his colours to Boris' mast as he's next in line if they pull off Brexit.
I honestly don't beleive IDS gives a toss about the disabled.
In the absense of an opposition, the entire countries political system is now devalued to the extent that it's been reduced to a bunch of posh boys, all having a bun fight about who gets to be the next big swinging dick.
And it doesn't matter about what the consequences are of the outcome, because for the top percentile there are no consequences. Not for them. There are for the rest of us, of course. But not for them
So ... Meh... who cares? It's all just a jolly big game, isn't it?
Actually..... Using an apparent new concern for the plight of the disabled (yeah..... right) as a front to further your own political agenda surely marks a new low even for the Tory party.
They truly are a bunch of utter ****s!!!
See the other thread, IDS has resigned to campaign for Leave. Osbourne is tied to Remain as is Cameron, Remain is a sinking ship.
Hats off to the elements of the press that have managed to link cuts to the disabled as being the result of tax cuts to the middle classes. The headlines don't play as well if they read "Tories honour commitments to increase NHS spending by scaling back welfare budgets"
@binners the lack of an opposition is the fault of the Labour MPs who decided to "broaden the debate" by allowing Corbyn to stand and to those that voted for him. Thats the beauty of democracy, they got what they voted for.
jambalaya - Member
See the other thread, IDS has resigned to campaign for Leave. Osbourne is tied to Remain as is Cameron, Remain is a sinking ship.
Hats off to the elements of the press that have managed to link cuts to the disabled as being the result of tax cuts to the middle classes.
Not according to his own resignation letter...
[url=In full: Iain Duncan Smith resignation letter http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35848891 ]bbc link/url]
As many have long suspected:
- cuts politically motivated. Tick
- ideologically driven. Tick
- economically necessary. Nah (ref IDS comparison of young family vs wealthy pensioners)
- All in it Together... Blown out of the water
Hats off to the elements of the press that have managed to link cuts to the disabled as being the result of tax cuts to the middle classes. The headlines don't play as well if they read "Tories honour commitments to increase NHS spending by scaling back welfare budgets"
Hats off to jamba for using the words "Tories" and "honour" in the same sentence.
Actually I sort of agree - the public voted to be ****ed, and they have been. In spades. That's life below stairs for you.
Jambalaya there was no mention of the NHS in his resignation letter, why on earth would the press link it.?
IDS plainly states that tax breaks for the rich are indefensible and that austerity is ideological rather than good for the country.....
Besides which no one believes the Tories are doing anything other than dismantling the NHS, even the Tory graph admits they've broken it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/laura-donnelly/12198069/AandE-now-overwhelmed-says-top-doc-as-he-calls-for-army-of-medics-to-be-sent-in.html
Jambalaya tory fanboi
Drinking from the poisoned cup
Writing facts like fairy tales
You really couldn't make it up
Suckling from the demon's teat
Mind and soul awash with greed
Writhing debauched, entranced, ecstatic
Drunk and high on Satan's seed
Prostrate before the foulest alter
Vows taken, dedication whole
Wealth and death and no compassion
For lower tax he sold his soul
Take me up oh wondrous leaders
To join you in your golden beds
Feasting on the poor and needy
Midst lusty trysts with porcine heads
Deluded, rapturous believer
Sacrifice the lesser man
Some of us were born more equal
To take all things since time began
Who will stop these pompous pirates?
Lacking will and weak of chin
Pathetic mewling grasping monsters
Braying waltzing, utter sin
😆
Man, reading through the rest of this thread is just depressing.
I'm starting to think that further cuts to the disabled are absolutely necessary if only to serve to piss off binners to a point where his head actually explodes.
I thought they told us they were the safe bet and labour would mess things
Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I'm certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.
I wish peole would stop thinking about numbers and focus on the peole concerneds....who gives a shit about what Labour might or might not do to the economy.. Right now the peole in charge are making nasty decisions (as evidenced by the backlash of their own MP's)...
Slimjim ...you want to kill people to upset Binners? What a lovely set of values you have...
Shame that the one thing you are certain of in politics is nonsense slimjim.
And hilariously hypocritical that Osbourne is now blaming global financial conditions (as well as Labour, obviously) for failing to meet virtually all of his targets for balancing the books when they've spent the last few years castigating Labour for happening to be in power when a worldwide financial meltdown happened.
Slimjim ...you want to kill people to upset Binners?
You misread (again). I want to kill people in order to kill binners.
A necessary evil. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten
Who's being demonised?
Jambalaya tory fanboi
Drinking from the poisoned cup
Writing facts like fairy tales
You really couldn't make it upSuckling from the demon's teat
Mind and soul awash with greed
Writhing debauched, entranced, ecstatic
Drunk and high on Satan's seedProstrate before the foulest alter
Vows taken, dedication whole
Wealth and death and no compassion
For lower tax he sold his soulTake me up oh wondrous leaders
To join you in your golden beds
Feasting on the poor and needy
Midst lusty trysts with porcine headsDeluded, rapturous believer
Sacrifice the lesser man
Some of us were born more equal
To take all things since time beganWho will stop these pompous pirates?
Lacking will and weak of chin
Pathetic mewling grasping monsters
Braying waltzing, utter sin
I thought it was a pretty generous appraisal of your average common or garden tory boy 🙂
Shame that the one thing you are certain of in politics is nonsense slimjim.And hilariously hypocritical that Osbourne is now blaming global financial conditions (as well as Labour, obviously) for failing to meet virtually all of his targets for balancing the books when they've spent the last few years castigating Labour for happening to be in power when a worldwide financial meltdown happened.
In the interests of balance, might that be attributable to them tending to take over from a high spending Labour administration? Saying "Osbourne has borrowed more than Brown" is factually correct but very misleading, classic politicking!
Hasn't it just been reported that as well as losing half of the £45b used in the bank bailout (after promising us a profit)he has just lost a further £22b in the rbs thing?
No wonder he's ramping up the cuts and greasing the palms of the elite
What a useless pillock.. IBS' resignation might just be enough of a story to cover it up though
Slimbo - as I'm not presently disabled* why not kill two birds with one stone by hacking one of my legs off, or even both, then leaving me to bleed to death? Thus ensuring not only my untimely, grizzly demise, but as at the time I would technically be a burden on the higher rate taxpayer, a saving to the state?
It's a win/win!
* people who ride with me regularly may dispute this
Maybe some things need demonising. This government has caused deaths and a great deal of stress/misery for the most vulnerable people in our society. If you don't think this is worthy of demonising what would it take airtragic?
This guy demonising the government too?
You know, the disabled lifelong Tory supporter and activist who's quit the party in disgust. Perhaps he should moderate his views and be more understanding of others' viewpoints in case he offends anyone?
It's funny how those on the right are very quick to complain about PC and how easily offended we are, until they get a bit of criticism and all of a sudden it's out of order.
Savage murderous bastards don't like being called names. It makes them have a sad
[i][b]You misread (again)[/b]. I want to kill people in order to kill binners.
A necessary evil. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten[/i]
@slimjim - where did I misread you last time? Genuine question, not a reactive post. I've only made three posts in this thread and two didn't mention other forum posts...
Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I'm certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.
So Gideon fails and proves he isn't very good at running the figures therefore showing his way of doing things doesn't work yet the people who did a reasonable job with the figures over a decent amount of time are not to be trusted even though there's no way of knowing if their alternative might be better?
Right.
It's pretty clear this was a classic case of a budget that started from a point of wanting to give tax cuts to businesses and the middle classes.
It then worked out how it could pay for those tax cuts.
It worked out that cutting welfare was the best way to do this.
It then remembered how poeple stopped them cutting tax credits like they wanted to, because tax credits affect many voters.
It then looked at how many disabled people vote...
My wife is a higher rate taxpayer, we do well for ourselves financially and consider ourselves rich. The fact that we aren't very financially sensible and blow most of our money on bikes and furniture for our house is our fault.
If one of us lost our job we would be screwed, but we would only have ourselves to blame, as we have been lucky enough to be financially independent. It has been our choice how we spend the money.
A disabled person is very much less likely to be so lucky, due in no small part to the inherent discrimination in the system. Through no fault of their own, many disabled people have no choice but to be dependent upon the state, as there is no other way for them to earn money.
Just because Gideon has decided to reward higher rate taxpayers by punishing the weak does not make higher rate tax payers evil.
At the same time, higher rate taxpayers should probably not go on about how hard done by they are, because they are not. They have the luxury of choice.
So Gideon fails
Subjective. He didn't hit his quoted targets, but I'm pretty sure the economic shower of shit he inherited was even worse than first predicted. Britains economy has been fairing favourably in comparison to the majority of the rest of the world, so subjectively, you could argue that Gideon has done well all things considered.
IMO it's too easy to just spout 'he missed his target he missed his target!'
On balance, I think the cuts to disability have been too deep and too fast. We should indeed be taking better care of the vulnerable. Including *sigh* binners
Well, Steve Crabb is the new minister, the coming man and a modern John Major, great appointment.
Yes Steve Crabb- some are touting him as a possible next leader.
In a way this cock up may benefit the Tories- they'll realise G.O is a no go for the next leader. G.O cannot win the next election!
Subjective.
Nope - entirely 100% objective.
IMO it's too easy to just spout 'he missed his target he missed his target!'
Yep. Because he ... errr ... missed his targets - you know, the ones he made for himself. If it's OK to miss them because of <insert excuse here>, what was the point of having them in the first place?
On balance, I think the cuts to disability have been too deep and too fast.
So, just for the record, how deep and fast do you think disability benefits should be cut?
Sideways move for Steven Crabb?
So slimjim, what exactly would he have to do for you to agree that he's failed?