[Closed] A new Tesla for £25k? Sounds good.

asks the council to install electric charging points around town

Hang on, so the government subsidizes the cars, then the council pays for charging points, all the while the government gets less tax from VED and Fuel Duty (& in London avoids congestion charge).

Talk about a huge subsidy for the well off paid for by the poor.

If car manufacturers want to push EV's then they should pay for it.

Given that roads are paid for out of general taxation, it's arguably the 1% who are or will be footing the bill for it.

I'm sure tax structures will have to change if fuel duty drops, but the smoking lobby said the same thing.

No idea who pays for charging points, just noticed that a few are poping up around town now and assumed it was coming out of the highways budget.

The other great thing about EVs is that most of them are bought on PCPs subsidised by the manufacturers (at least until they achieve market penetration) meaning that their values drop like a stone. You can buy a lovely low mileage Leaf for about £7k. Big enough for a family and most journeys, and if you're sitting in it you don't even have to look at it.

No off-street parking?

You will probably be able to just have the car go off and charge itself when you're not using:
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Talk about a huge subsidy for the well off paid for by the poor.

You're forgetting that the cleaner air, from less local pollution, disproportionally benefits the poor, who tend to live in the most polluted parts of towns and cities.

I'm not sure these cars are aimed at people who can't afford off-street parking.

But charging is going to be one of the major challenges in UK cities. Various people (Mayoral candidate Zac Goldsmith amongst them, seem to think in a small number of years London's pollution and congestion problems will be solved by electric vehicles. Quite apart from the fact that a road full of electric vehicles is just as congested as one full of diesels putting in place the charging infrastructure for the majority (?) of London's cars which are parked on street is going to be expensive and time consuming.

Easier in those big new high rise blocks with underground parking but the majority of London housing remains old terraces. The new connection for my house cost c£2500 when the parking suspensions were included. There's going to have to be disabled type bays "for electric car charging only". It's not insurmountable but I think it's going to slow take up in some fairly large parts of UK cities.

I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not sure these cars are aimed at people who can't afford off-street parking.

Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested 😉

Pre orders on this totalled 7.5 billion pounds!

Stoner - Member
Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested

Was having a similar discussion with my neighbour yesterday. He is very anti-EV and extremely anti-self driving car. I pointed out how cool it would be when he is in his 70/80's to have his volvo amazon converted to EV with the option to self drive and he started to see the benefits.

I can't see conversions taking off really though except for rare cases like the above. It should be easy to swap out the rear axle on a FWD car for an electric assist one though with batteries for town driving by the enthusiast but with all the seamless integration that would be needed for the mainstream punter it's just not worth the effort.

There are a few cars around here that charge at the kerbside. No significant problems. If you live somewhere the neds would do that to an electric car they'd probably do it to something else anyway

Did anyone suggest that these were wonder cars suitable for absolutely everyone?

I must admit, though, driving an electric car around California is a lot different than than the UK - remember there’s no big petrol engine warming the inside of the car up…

I love the critique of the interiors yet this is the choice of champions according to STW

[img] ?itok=8OI2-Lw3[/img]

😯

We have a Tesla. It is lovely. I will leave it at that.

oh don't remind me! I went to look at Octavias and Passats given how much praise they get on here....they really did feel nasty and this is coming from someone who drives an old french estate and a freelander!

Next week I'm driving to Roubaix. Its further than 200 miles, and I want to do it in one go. The week after I'm going up to the lakes - that's 330 miles, also further than 200.

Likewise, we drive to the south of france/spain each year which is considerably more than 200 miles. However, the theory is that once you add Tesla Superchargers to the motorway service stations this becomes a lot easier

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/supercharger

170 miles after a 30 minute charge. That's not really much longer than a pee stop. Plug in when you arrive, go for a pee, pick up a few things in the shop and you're not exactly going to be waiting long.

We're edge cases as well - most people, most of the time, can easily cope with a 200mile range. It would happily take me to Newport down the M4 or to the relations in Hereford.

Awaits the first Street Legal electric dragster conversion.

Not practical for me unfortunately, if I want off street parking I sacrifice my garden, if I want on street charging its the other side of the road. I work in a power station belonging to a company who installs charging poles, guess how many we have on site?

Oh and that interior? Works for me, at least its not a butt ugly VW dash or god forbid a Saab

Stoner - Member

Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested

MG MGF
http://www.evalbum.com/3250

Loads of VW Beetle
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electric+vw+beetle&oq=electric+vw+beetle&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4271j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It's pretty much just battery + controllers + motors, and hook it upto the gearbox.

packer - Member
I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not against "going green" but if that really is your driving force (if you excuse the pun) "switching" is the last thing you should do, there's a horrific amount of energy, water and oil (in the form of plastics) that go into building a new car, a staggering amount - and simply shifting pollution from the car to the powerstation isn't going to make much of a dent in that. Plus the associated impact of building the massive batteries with their limited lifespan means it's not guaranteed that an EV will be lower impact than all petrol / diesel cars.

If you want to reduce the impact on the environment keep your current car, maintain it properly and get 200-300k miles out of it before it's finally and completely worn out, even if it means making repairs that cost more than its resale value - if everyone did that you might only buy 2 cars your whole lifetime.

If it really was £25k to buy, then I would be interested, but given the dollar to pound ratio, it'll end up being too much.

The idea of eV conversions sounds good, I would be interested in that sort of concept as well.

packer - Member
I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not. Many people live paycheck to paycheck with no savings. Increasing their vehicle spend for a less capable vehicle (smaller range and fewer refueling points) is the last thing they are going to do.

I think the point is though that most people commute less than 200 miles each way or even round trip. Its also not people who are living paycheck to paycheck who should even be considering buying a new car but rather those who can afford to buy a new car in the first place.

Agree that a new car is energy intensive but the new ones dont just pop out of thin air, if a decent enough finance deal was to be had I may seriously consider one but I would have to work out how the hell I charge it both at home and at work and until that happens its a non starter. We cant even get the council to maintain the roads so the thought of them installing chargers is just hilarious...

$10 billion worth of orders with $270 million in deposits.

It's like the HebTroCo kickstarter all over again...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/04/tesla-motors-sells-10bn-model-3-two-days?CMP=twt_a-technology_b-gdntech ]http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/04/tesla-motors-sells-10bn-model-3-two-days?CMP=twt_a-technology_b-gdntech[/url]

It shows that there's certainly an appetite for EVs. Told my BIL about it and he put his deposit down immediately!

http://www.evalbum.com/3959

This is a guy at works "kit car".

My problem with Tesla is whether they'll exist in 3 years. They lost 40% of their €2bn float just last year, if they don't turn a profit soon, they'll be in administration and then what?

$10 billion worth of orders with $270 million in deposits.

Refundable deposits though, they've still got to turn those deposits into orders and build them for <£25k to make a profit.

Told my BIL about it and he put his deposit down immediately!

@zilog - they have $270m in refundable deposits, they will burn through that in a heartbeat.

I am sure someone will come along and work out how long it would take them to manufacture that many cars at current volumes

EDIT Tesla sold 17500 cRs last qtr of 2015 a record. So assuming 80,000 cars a year and first delievry in 2017 (optimistic) latest depist can exoect a car in 2020-21. Of course production can be ramped up or Tesla could go bust and you lose your deposit

now trying to work out what an 'eval bum' is.

Well if their powerwall turns a profit then it should help. If the choice was to continue with some of the old industry and subsidise something that will never turn a profit or invest in something like tesla which would make more sense?

A friend's son has had an S model Tesla for a year or so. He likes it but finds it a bit too big.

He's put his (refundable) deposit down for an M model. He reckons the UK version won't be available until late 2018 at the earliest, by which time he may be thinking about replacing the S model anyway.

So they have at least one happy customer.

And the recharging thing - apparently a dedicated Tesla charging point will re-charge 80% in 30 minutes but home charging takes a LOT longer than that. He lives in a flat so can't home charge. Apparently he doesn't find this a problem.

And if you use a Tesla charger, its free. Other chargers cost.

@zilog - they have $270m in refundable deposits, they will burn through that in a heartbeat.

Is no one worried about quality issues? The Tesla forum isn't exactly glowing and US car manufacturers don't have good rep of late. Add in this is a big step change in volume and I can see a failure happening. Suppose it depends if there are enough Elon Musk fans to keep chucking him money.

In order to actually buy the car or in the hope of flipping his deposit slot for a profit

Of the 4 charge points in Waitrose carpark in CW, barely 1 charge per day out of them is taken. These stats are off the readout above them showing availability of the charge point (you can book a slot)

You'da thunk in CW of all places, where "showey, me, me me" is tattooed on yer braces, there would be more of these milk floats.

Personally I think they're awful to look at, too expensive, 250 mile radius max a laughable joke. Until they decide to stick a petrol/diesel support motor in it and make a hybrid out of it, it's just another expensive toy that you have to walk home from.

[i]You'da thunk in CW of all places[/i]

When people use a local abbreviation that means nothing to most people...

Personally I think they're awful to look at, too expensive, 250 mile radius max a laughable joke. Until they decide to stick a petrol/diesel support motor in it and make a hybrid out of it, it's just another expensive toy that you have to walk home from.

Is it really 250 miles though? Guy on Tesla's own site was saying in the UK he only got 175 out of his S. Plus people are saying things like in traffic they are getting less than 200 miles. So I'd say in real world 200 miles or a bit less is more like the safe distance. Which is still plenty for the day to day commute, but that makes it a 2nd car really and not the primary family carrying vehicle.

Is it really 250 miles though? Guy on Tesla's own site was saying in the UK he only got 175 out of his S. Plus people are saying things like in traffic they are getting less than 200 miles. So I'd say in real world 200 miles or a bit less is more like the safe distance. Which is still plenty for the day to day commute, but that makes it a 2nd car really and not the primary family carrying vehicle.

Or it makes it the perfect family car for day to day life, and you can hire a diesel car for the occasional time you need to do 200+ miles without stopping (bearing in mind you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes at a charge point). Even if it's 'only' 200miles, that's still Reading to Blackburn. I bet almost no one (a lot lot less than 1%) of people do more than 200miles in a day. And probably only a small subsection of those do more than 200 without stopping. It might even reverse trends in car ownership, now cars are cheap and fuel is expensive, so households have 2+ cars, if the cost of cars go up and and fuel becomes cheap we might go back to 1 car, or even no cars and rent them.

I can see charge points popping up on forecourts if that's the case, 30 minutes is a cup of tea and a slash, which is a cup of teas more profit than they make by selling petrol!

250 mile radius max a laughable joke.

my car I commute to work in, has probably done one trip over 250 miles in the five years I've owned it. And I could have taken a pool car for that.

electric would suit me fine for my next car if they weren't so bloody expensive.

After 200 miles non-stop I'd be dying for a pee anyway, so if I'm stopping anyway another twenty minutes or so is no hardship at all.

I'd love one, and I kept thinking about making a reservation, but I don't really drive that often so it would just be sat doing nothing most of the time which would make it a bit of a pointless investment.

30 minutes is a cup of tea and a slash

It sounds more like a fear of the unknown from some people, a little scared of the magic and sorcery. Next we will have the any bloke can fix a petrol car line etc.
[img] [/img]
We are currently at denial but not far from anger. Oil running out a myth, stranded as I forgot to look at the charging light (never happened with a petrol car) emissions, who cares with China/India etc. still using coal fired electric... and my personal favourite - buying a new car is bad for the planet as you presumably scrap the 3 year old car you had previously.
[img] [/img]
We are burning the oil, warming the planet and depleting one of the most useful resources by not embracing change.

Yup, as said 200 mile radius is fine for me and can hire/borrow a diesel for the occasional towing duties.

Half an hour is actually a pretty sensible break anyway, assuming you've been driving for three of those hours already.

bearing in mind you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes at a charge point

Pretty standard for Li-ion car battery. Kia Soul is the same at a fast charging station (the type they have at service stations).

Appolz, CW = Canary Wharf.

But still, lets say if you do get "real world" mileage out of the battery, then whats been said it's about 175-200 miles. Obvs you can add into the equation all the gubbins the cars running (AirCon/Radio/lights..) and thats still rubbish for running around Town for a couple of days.
Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night, or every other night. But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.
Ok, so you could call out a tow truck to tow you to a charge point, whereby you sit in it looking and feeling like a dork waiting for the thing to charge enough to get you to whatever emergency is still pending.

And it's happened.

I used to do a milk float round when I returned from the States whilst doing my A levels, bit of a giggle and earned a few quid. You could feel the panic set in when the needle dropped to just below 1/4 charge with 6miles to go back to the depot..

I still wonder why they're not designed with a backup 3cyl diesel engine or something like the iOne thing BMW have designed. Was the Scope to just produce "the worlds, not quite, fully electric car with leather seats"?

Hydrogen's the only real world alternative IMO. For years it's been on the back burner of a designers crayon. BMW had a stint a few years ago then dropped it because of the fashion for Batteries, only to return back to Hydrogen last year. I don't know of any more Brands adopting this technology, surely there should be some more.

What I do think is good, and worthy (almost) are delivery vans that only drive around Cities and Towns (a bit like Milk Floats) where restricted mileage is <200 miles and then back to the charge point/depot. Good to see UPS doing this, I wait for all the others to catch up, then Taxis/Black Cabs and Busses and tipper trucks.