[Closed] A new Tesla for £25k? Sounds good.

if wishes were paychecks...

in summary: well done Tesla for making this car, but the leccy-car revolution will have to overcome trickier problems than price...

So the car isn't suitable for Stuart. What about Dave, Dave has a 50mile each way commute and lives in a nice suburban semi detached house with a driveway.

Dave would save about £2700 a year with an electric car and thinks it's a great idea.

Dave looks down on Stuart because Stuart live in some war torn hell hole where people vandalise cars because they run on a different fuel?

Don't be a dick, live like Dave. 😆

Stuart, seeing his mate Dave's electric car asks the council to install electric charging points around town and if they can put one on his street. Seeing this is a really good idea they put one in for a few cars to use. Seeing that now Stuart has both cheap fuel and easy parking all his neighbors do the same, cut down to one car while they're at it and Stuarts war torn cess pit becomes a hipster enclave and property prices rise so Stuart moves to a nice semi next door to Dave.

And everyone lives happily ever after. Apart from Dave, who's wife is now having an affair with hipster Stuart.

Good for Dave, i'm sure he'll love his new car.

most people work for someone like Dave, they don't have the same options (house).

. 1) what happens when i can't park outside my house - next to 'my' charging point? do i have to trail the cable to wherever my car may be? - what if that's over the road?

Key here is lots of public charge points so it doesn't matter. People will undoubtedly get possessive though as they do about the bit of road outside their house.

The others I can't help with as that is society and I too would move!

I would say hopefully there will be a change from the need/desire to own cars facilitated by a public transport system that actually works. That's a long shot though.

Meet Spider. Spider lives down the road from Stuart and makes a nice living dealing to the locals. Spider is a big fan of electric cars as she can hack into all those charging points to power the lights for her plants. Dave doesn't even know Spider exists, but Mrs Dave and Stuart both enjoy her wares while Dave's busy driving to and from work when he could be using virtual technology to work from home.

i understand that i've probably been misunderstood.

under slightly different circumstances*, our next car may well have been electric. For the majority of our driving needs, they sound ideal.

(*those different circumstances being: finding an additional £600to800 per month to move house)

Wasn't Uber talking about banning car ownership in urban areas and replacing with a massive fleet of driverless cars which you just call up when you need one.

The idea being that you free a load of space from not having car parks and it would reduce congestion.

Great concept that probably never work for a number of reasons.

Spider is a big fan of electric cars as she can hack into all those charging points to power the lights for her plants.

lolno

Spider would just take the supply from the incoming fuse on his meter board surely?

The charging points I've seen on the streets have a chip+pin payment on them, although there is a free one in the work car park.

The idea being that you free a load of space from not having car parks and it would reduce congestion.

Great concept that probably never work for a number of reasons.

I don't see why not,

do i really have to explain why kerbside charging is a crap idea?

You can try, but given most of Scandinavia has kerb site charge points for the sump heaters, you're facing an uphill struggle...

asks the council to install electric charging points around town

Hang on, so the government subsidizes the cars, then the council pays for charging points, all the while the government gets less tax from VED and Fuel Duty (& in London avoids congestion charge).

Talk about a huge subsidy for the well off paid for by the poor.

If car manufacturers want to push EV's then they should pay for it.

Given that roads are paid for out of general taxation, it's arguably the 1% who are or will be footing the bill for it.

I'm sure tax structures will have to change if fuel duty drops, but the smoking lobby said the same thing.

No idea who pays for charging points, just noticed that a few are poping up around town now and assumed it was coming out of the highways budget.

The other great thing about EVs is that most of them are bought on PCPs subsidised by the manufacturers (at least until they achieve market penetration) meaning that their values drop like a stone. You can buy a lovely low mileage Leaf for about £7k. Big enough for a family and most journeys, and if you're sitting in it you don't even have to look at it.

No off-street parking?

You will probably be able to just have the car go off and charge itself when you're not using:
[url=

Talk about a huge subsidy for the well off paid for by the poor.

You're forgetting that the cleaner air, from less local pollution, disproportionally benefits the poor, who tend to live in the most polluted parts of towns and cities.

I'm not sure these cars are aimed at people who can't afford off-street parking.

But charging is going to be one of the major challenges in UK cities. Various people (Mayoral candidate Zac Goldsmith amongst them, seem to think in a small number of years London's pollution and congestion problems will be solved by electric vehicles. Quite apart from the fact that a road full of electric vehicles is just as congested as one full of diesels putting in place the charging infrastructure for the majority (?) of London's cars which are parked on street is going to be expensive and time consuming.

Easier in those big new high rise blocks with underground parking but the majority of London housing remains old terraces. The new connection for my house cost c£2500 when the parking suspensions were included. There's going to have to be disabled type bays "for electric car charging only". It's not insurmountable but I think it's going to slow take up in some fairly large parts of UK cities.

I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not sure these cars are aimed at people who can't afford off-street parking.

Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested 😉

Pre orders on this totalled 7.5 billion pounds!

Stoner - Member
Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested

Was having a similar discussion with my neighbour yesterday. He is very anti-EV and extremely anti-self driving car. I pointed out how cool it would be when he is in his 70/80's to have his volvo amazon converted to EV with the option to self drive and he started to see the benefits.

I can't see conversions taking off really though except for rare cases like the above. It should be easy to swap out the rear axle on a FWD car for an electric assist one though with batteries for town driving by the enthusiast but with all the seamless integration that would be needed for the mainstream punter it's just not worth the effort.

There are a few cars around here that charge at the kerbside. No significant problems. If you live somewhere the neds would do that to an electric car they'd probably do it to something else anyway

Did anyone suggest that these were wonder cars suitable for absolutely everyone?

I must admit, though, driving an electric car around California is a lot different than than the UK - remember there’s no big petrol engine warming the inside of the car up…

I love the critique of the interiors yet this is the choice of champions according to STW

[img] ?itok=8OI2-Lw3[/img]

😯

We have a Tesla. It is lovely. I will leave it at that.

oh don't remind me! I went to look at Octavias and Passats given how much praise they get on here....they really did feel nasty and this is coming from someone who drives an old french estate and a freelander!

Next week I'm driving to Roubaix. Its further than 200 miles, and I want to do it in one go. The week after I'm going up to the lakes - that's 330 miles, also further than 200.

Likewise, we drive to the south of france/spain each year which is considerably more than 200 miles. However, the theory is that once you add Tesla Superchargers to the motorway service stations this becomes a lot easier

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/supercharger

170 miles after a 30 minute charge. That's not really much longer than a pee stop. Plug in when you arrive, go for a pee, pick up a few things in the shop and you're not exactly going to be waiting long.

We're edge cases as well - most people, most of the time, can easily cope with a 200mile range. It would happily take me to Newport down the M4 or to the relations in Hereford.

Awaits the first Street Legal electric dragster conversion.

Not practical for me unfortunately, if I want off street parking I sacrifice my garden, if I want on street charging its the other side of the road. I work in a power station belonging to a company who installs charging poles, guess how many we have on site?

Oh and that interior? Works for me, at least its not a butt ugly VW dash or god forbid a Saab

Stoner - Member

Given the simplicity how long until we can buy self contained axles with motors/inverters/firmware/and kers all built in. All you then need is an approved battery and you can stick it into a kit chassia of your choice? Then I'd be interested

MG MGF
http://www.evalbum.com/3250

Loads of VW Beetle
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electric+vw+beetle&oq=electric+vw+beetle&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4271j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It's pretty much just battery + controllers + motors, and hook it upto the gearbox.

packer - Member
I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not against "going green" but if that really is your driving force (if you excuse the pun) "switching" is the last thing you should do, there's a horrific amount of energy, water and oil (in the form of plastics) that go into building a new car, a staggering amount - and simply shifting pollution from the car to the powerstation isn't going to make much of a dent in that. Plus the associated impact of building the massive batteries with their limited lifespan means it's not guaranteed that an EV will be lower impact than all petrol / diesel cars.

If you want to reduce the impact on the environment keep your current car, maintain it properly and get 200-300k miles out of it before it's finally and completely worn out, even if it means making repairs that cost more than its resale value - if everyone did that you might only buy 2 cars your whole lifetime.

If it really was £25k to buy, then I would be interested, but given the dollar to pound ratio, it'll end up being too much.

The idea of eV conversions sounds good, I would be interested in that sort of concept as well.

packer - Member
I'm surprised how many people won't even entertain the idea of switching to a more environmentally friendly car until it's cheaper for them than the fossil fuel variety...

I'm not. Many people live paycheck to paycheck with no savings. Increasing their vehicle spend for a less capable vehicle (smaller range and fewer refueling points) is the last thing they are going to do.

I think the point is though that most people commute less than 200 miles each way or even round trip. Its also not people who are living paycheck to paycheck who should even be considering buying a new car but rather those who can afford to buy a new car in the first place.

Agree that a new car is energy intensive but the new ones dont just pop out of thin air, if a decent enough finance deal was to be had I may seriously consider one but I would have to work out how the hell I charge it both at home and at work and until that happens its a non starter. We cant even get the council to maintain the roads so the thought of them installing chargers is just hilarious...

$10 billion worth of orders with $270 million in deposits.

It's like the HebTroCo kickstarter all over again...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/04/tesla-motors-sells-10bn-model-3-two-days?CMP=twt_a-technology_b-gdntech ]http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/04/tesla-motors-sells-10bn-model-3-two-days?CMP=twt_a-technology_b-gdntech[/url]

It shows that there's certainly an appetite for EVs. Told my BIL about it and he put his deposit down immediately!

http://www.evalbum.com/3959

This is a guy at works "kit car".

My problem with Tesla is whether they'll exist in 3 years. They lost 40% of their €2bn float just last year, if they don't turn a profit soon, they'll be in administration and then what?

$10 billion worth of orders with $270 million in deposits.

Refundable deposits though, they've still got to turn those deposits into orders and build them for <£25k to make a profit.

Told my BIL about it and he put his deposit down immediately!

@zilog - they have $270m in refundable deposits, they will burn through that in a heartbeat.

I am sure someone will come along and work out how long it would take them to manufacture that many cars at current volumes

EDIT Tesla sold 17500 cRs last qtr of 2015 a record. So assuming 80,000 cars a year and first delievry in 2017 (optimistic) latest depist can exoect a car in 2020-21. Of course production can be ramped up or Tesla could go bust and you lose your deposit

now trying to work out what an 'eval bum' is.

Well if their powerwall turns a profit then it should help. If the choice was to continue with some of the old industry and subsidise something that will never turn a profit or invest in something like tesla which would make more sense?

A friend's son has had an S model Tesla for a year or so. He likes it but finds it a bit too big.

He's put his (refundable) deposit down for an M model. He reckons the UK version won't be available until late 2018 at the earliest, by which time he may be thinking about replacing the S model anyway.

So they have at least one happy customer.

And the recharging thing - apparently a dedicated Tesla charging point will re-charge 80% in 30 minutes but home charging takes a LOT longer than that. He lives in a flat so can't home charge. Apparently he doesn't find this a problem.

And if you use a Tesla charger, its free. Other chargers cost.

@zilog - they have $270m in refundable deposits, they will burn through that in a heartbeat.

Is no one worried about quality issues? The Tesla forum isn't exactly glowing and US car manufacturers don't have good rep of late. Add in this is a big step change in volume and I can see a failure happening. Suppose it depends if there are enough Elon Musk fans to keep chucking him money.

In order to actually buy the car or in the hope of flipping his deposit slot for a profit

Of the 4 charge points in Waitrose carpark in CW, barely 1 charge per day out of them is taken. These stats are off the readout above them showing availability of the charge point (you can book a slot)

You'da thunk in CW of all places, where "showey, me, me me" is tattooed on yer braces, there would be more of these milk floats.

Personally I think they're awful to look at, too expensive, 250 mile radius max a laughable joke. Until they decide to stick a petrol/diesel support motor in it and make a hybrid out of it, it's just another expensive toy that you have to walk home from.

[i]You'da thunk in CW of all places[/i]

When people use a local abbreviation that means nothing to most people...

Personally I think they're awful to look at, too expensive, 250 mile radius max a laughable joke. Until they decide to stick a petrol/diesel support motor in it and make a hybrid out of it, it's just another expensive toy that you have to walk home from.

Is it really 250 miles though? Guy on Tesla's own site was saying in the UK he only got 175 out of his S. Plus people are saying things like in traffic they are getting less than 200 miles. So I'd say in real world 200 miles or a bit less is more like the safe distance. Which is still plenty for the day to day commute, but that makes it a 2nd car really and not the primary family carrying vehicle.

Is it really 250 miles though? Guy on Tesla's own site was saying in the UK he only got 175 out of his S. Plus people are saying things like in traffic they are getting less than 200 miles. So I'd say in real world 200 miles or a bit less is more like the safe distance. Which is still plenty for the day to day commute, but that makes it a 2nd car really and not the primary family carrying vehicle.

Or it makes it the perfect family car for day to day life, and you can hire a diesel car for the occasional time you need to do 200+ miles without stopping (bearing in mind you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes at a charge point). Even if it's 'only' 200miles, that's still Reading to Blackburn. I bet almost no one (a lot lot less than 1%) of people do more than 200miles in a day. And probably only a small subsection of those do more than 200 without stopping. It might even reverse trends in car ownership, now cars are cheap and fuel is expensive, so households have 2+ cars, if the cost of cars go up and and fuel becomes cheap we might go back to 1 car, or even no cars and rent them.

I can see charge points popping up on forecourts if that's the case, 30 minutes is a cup of tea and a slash, which is a cup of teas more profit than they make by selling petrol!

250 mile radius max a laughable joke.

my car I commute to work in, has probably done one trip over 250 miles in the five years I've owned it. And I could have taken a pool car for that.

electric would suit me fine for my next car if they weren't so bloody expensive.

After 200 miles non-stop I'd be dying for a pee anyway, so if I'm stopping anyway another twenty minutes or so is no hardship at all.

I'd love one, and I kept thinking about making a reservation, but I don't really drive that often so it would just be sat doing nothing most of the time which would make it a bit of a pointless investment.

30 minutes is a cup of tea and a slash

It sounds more like a fear of the unknown from some people, a little scared of the magic and sorcery. Next we will have the any bloke can fix a petrol car line etc.
[img] [/img]
We are currently at denial but not far from anger. Oil running out a myth, stranded as I forgot to look at the charging light (never happened with a petrol car) emissions, who cares with China/India etc. still using coal fired electric... and my personal favourite - buying a new car is bad for the planet as you presumably scrap the 3 year old car you had previously.
[img] [/img]
We are burning the oil, warming the planet and depleting one of the most useful resources by not embracing change.

Yup, as said 200 mile radius is fine for me and can hire/borrow a diesel for the occasional towing duties.

Half an hour is actually a pretty sensible break anyway, assuming you've been driving for three of those hours already.

bearing in mind you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes at a charge point

Pretty standard for Li-ion car battery. Kia Soul is the same at a fast charging station (the type they have at service stations).

Appolz, CW = Canary Wharf.

But still, lets say if you do get "real world" mileage out of the battery, then whats been said it's about 175-200 miles. Obvs you can add into the equation all the gubbins the cars running (AirCon/Radio/lights..) and thats still rubbish for running around Town for a couple of days.
Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night, or every other night. But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.
Ok, so you could call out a tow truck to tow you to a charge point, whereby you sit in it looking and feeling like a dork waiting for the thing to charge enough to get you to whatever emergency is still pending.

And it's happened.

I used to do a milk float round when I returned from the States whilst doing my A levels, bit of a giggle and earned a few quid. You could feel the panic set in when the needle dropped to just below 1/4 charge with 6miles to go back to the depot..

I still wonder why they're not designed with a backup 3cyl diesel engine or something like the iOne thing BMW have designed. Was the Scope to just produce "the worlds, not quite, fully electric car with leather seats"?

Hydrogen's the only real world alternative IMO. For years it's been on the back burner of a designers crayon. BMW had a stint a few years ago then dropped it because of the fashion for Batteries, only to return back to Hydrogen last year. I don't know of any more Brands adopting this technology, surely there should be some more.

What I do think is good, and worthy (almost) are delivery vans that only drive around Cities and Towns (a bit like Milk Floats) where restricted mileage is <200 miles and then back to the charge point/depot. Good to see UPS doing this, I wait for all the others to catch up, then Taxis/Black Cabs and Busses and tipper trucks.

Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night, or every other night. But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.

but if you're doing 200 miles every other day then you're somewhere in the region of 30K miles a year. Which would make you somewhat of an outlier, as far as average car use is concerned....

Aberdeen has hydrogen buses, quite a few broke down on initial use, but I think that is sorted now.

Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night,

I think that's it people would have to plug in pretty much every night.

bikebouy - Member

Hydrogen's the only real world alternative IMO.

there's a lot to be said for hydrogen as a replacement fuel, but overall it's less efficient, and you can't really store it adequately...

Regarding the breaks I see it as a good thing forcing people to stop for the appropriate time.

As navigation systems get more advanced (eg Google telling you when you need to leave by to get to a meeting) I see the breaks just being planned automatically as your nav system will know how much range you have and book you a charging slot.

One problem is what if 200 cars all want to charge at once at services? The number of charge points and the power network to them becomes a problem. But again with integrated navigation it could book you a slot earlier if needed due to over demand at the ideal location or you should have enough reserve to make the next as it will be conservative in case of incident.

I have no doubt we will see a lot more people running out of battery on the motorways though unless cars can actively alert you and try and stop you joining a motorway if you dont have enough juice for the next services.

But still, lets say if you do get "real world" mileage out of the battery, then whats been said it's about 175-200 miles. Obvs you can add into the equation all the gubbins the cars running (AirCon/Radio/lights..) and thats still rubbish for running around Town for a couple of days.
Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night, or every other night. But you'd be in panic mode if you'd decided not to plug it in the night before last, then some emergency happened, and you jumped in it to find you had <25 miles before Armageddon turned the lights off.
Ok, so you could call out a tow truck to tow you to a charge point, whereby you sit in it looking and feeling like a dork waiting for the thing to charge enough to get you to whatever emergency is still pending.

Pluging in takes I imagine about 30seconds? And it't not like petrol where you can weigh up things like the cost of filing up now Vs after payday, because it's only going to cost you £2, and it's not weighing the car down being full of electricity. Even the archetypal stressing single parent on the school run could manage to plug something in whilst hearding their offspring into the house.

They actually do a lot more 'MPG' around town than out of town, because all that stop/start driving is recoverable energy whereas driving at 70 loses it all to wind resistance. As others said, 200miles+ a day is not 'normal', even less so in London (do even cabbies manage that?). And even so, 200miles without a lunch break?

As noted, 200miles to Canary Warf, where are you commuting from, Sheffield?

I still wonder why they're not designed with a backup 3cyl diesel engine or something like the iOne thing BMW have designed. Was the Scope to just produce "the worlds, not quite, fully electric car with leather seats"?

Hydrogen's the only real world alternative IMO. For years it's been on the back burner of a designers crayon. BMW had a stint a few years ago then dropped it because of the fashion for Batteries, only to return back to Hydrogen last year. I don't know of any more Brands adopting this technology, surely there should be some more.

It's expensive and inefficient through.

Ok, you have to factor in a lifestyle change to remember to plug it in every night,

I think that's it people would have to plug in pretty much every night.

Most people wouldn't even need to plug it in every week -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28546589

(although they probably should do...)

One problem is what if 200 cars all want to charge at once at services?

That's most motorway services between about 22nd Dec and 1st Jan (minus Xmas day).

and even so, 200miles without a lunch break?

I've done over 300 miles in one go fairly regularly, it isn't a big deal tbh.

I don't know if this has been pointed out yet but the fact it's not a hatch back like a model s is a big flaw. I'm very keen on the concept and I know their deposit numbers show big demand but I feel that having such a small rear opening has really limited how useful the Model 3 is.

I used to think the same as this:

One problem is what if 200 cars all want to charge at once at services?

But I'm swaying towards this now:

which would save time in the long run compared to petrol or diesel cars where you have to fill up mid-journey every few hundred miles whatever distances you're doing.

I [i]could[/i] go and use the computers in the library, but if I can do it at home for a few more pennies on my electricity bill, why bother? It'll be the same with charging stations. If you can't do it elsewhere or you're on an exceptional journey (The national travel survey [document nts0308] says that 99% of car journeys are less than 100 miles) then you'll use a charging point at a petrol/service station, otherwise you'll just do it at home.

I will openly say I just don't get if, would buy a small engined petrol car all day long over a 'lecy car. You see many many Smart cars in Paris as they are useful for parking. Despite all the charging points very few electric cars. AFAIK Hybrids pay zero/less congestion charge in central London so I get the Hybrid thing (even on Cayenne and Panamera). IMO a full electric vehcike is still at least 5-10 years too early and they only make any economic sense as petrol taxes are so high.

As for range/distance I've driven 400-500 miles without stopping many times. 200 mikes with a compulsory 30+ min stop, would be a right pita

I wouldn't expect many electric cars at Canary Wharf Waitrose - if only because practically no one commutes by car there, and those who do aren't going to saunter out twice in the middle of their working day to charge their car in a supermarket car park. Those who live locally to CW aren't going to be buying expensive electric cars either

I think many people will be happy to plug in at home - after all, loads of people seem happy to drive all over the place to save thppence hapenny on a litre of diesel

i think some people have an odd idea about what "normal" driving is for most people.

HINT:- almost everyone you know will be able to do almost all their driving for a week on one charge.

@ghostly I understand your comment that many people do less than 10,000 a year but many do nit and many may not use the car much one week but do 500 miles the next. I do only 3,000-5,000 pa in my car but it sits unsed for weeks then we might do 500-1000 in one period

Also right now the government raises many billions from motorists via fuel duty. If we all drive electric cars we'd be taxed on those instead and the economics would chnage.

This is based on statistics from where?

Or just assumptions, guesswork and made up?

Those who do sit outside the customer profile (much fewer than you seem to think) simply won't be customers. Unless they are mis-sold the cars, like the thousands who bought diesels for pottering round the city.

And FWIW, the electric car is seen as one major step towards a major change in the whole car ownership model.

As for range/distance I've driven 400-500 miles without stopping many times.

Wow. That's pretty unsafe.

deadlydarcy - Member
As for range/distance I've driven 400-500 miles without stopping many times.
Wow. That's pretty unsafe.

4-500 might be a little bit too much for regular, but i'll easily do 300 non stop, quite easy really and i've just done it again from UK to Germany and will do the same back from Luxembourg on Friday. Eleccy cars have theor place for the school run (no i don't agree with the school run), but for general business users, whom are the people that use most fuel, eleccy cars are too far off from being viable.

edit: 4-500 miles non-stop is normsl for an alps trip 🙂

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Because then you have not only almost a ton of batteries, but also another half ton of diesel engine, and fuel tanks, and not just the weight, you've added another £10k to the cost of the car.

The Tesla battery pack is a little over half a ton. A typical car engine is way under half a ton never mind a little one (my 2.2 is apparently 340lbs but that's not what you'd put in it)

Some of the range extenders being developed (think very small single speed optimsed engine running a tiny gearbox/generator) are under 100 kilos, complete. (Engine, gearbox, generator, charging kit, fuel tank/supply and exhaust system)

4-500 miles non-stop is normsl for an alps trip

Do you need to be lifted out of the car at the end? Can you still walk? My legs would have seized up hours ago, never mind bladder capacity issues...

[quote=Sui ] 4-500 miles non-stop is normsl for an alps trip

Ha try nearer[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Aberdeen,+Aberdeen+City,+UK/Verbier,+Bagnes,+Switzerland/ @51.282975,-7.1009669,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4884054c1fd77549:0xe8bb05da5cf4c472!2m2!1d-2.094278!2d57.149717!1m5!1m1!1s0x478ecfcef7a6a973:0xffde3e9c0d278891!2m2!1d7.2288752!2d46.0960759!3e0] 1161 miles [/url]

Range extenders are fine but if they are really going to be efficient the car it is driving needs to be specced more like the Tesla and less like an Ampera. They don't fit into Teslas image though and thats their choice.

Definitely agree it should change ownership, even now if I lived in a city I'd be considering joining a car club,

Hydrogen has been actively pursued by Honda for years now, whoever brought that up. You can run a regular IC engine on it with sufficient strengthening but the primary source of problems is the limited fuel capacity derived from the strength needed in the tanks. Hydrogen buses have the entire roof space devoted to gas cylinders as thats what you need to make it viable. Fuel cells are better but the energy required to generate hydrogen is enormous and certainly cancels out any good unless its done emission free.

ghostlymachine - Member

Some of the range extenders being developed (think very small single speed optimsed engine running a tiny gearbox/generator) are under 100 kilos, complete. (Engine, gearbox, generator, charging kit, fuel tank/supply and exhaust system)

Aye- people still think in terms of standard automotive drivetrain, power levels etc rather than generator.

@ghostly I understand your comment that many people do less than 10,000 a year but many do nit and many may not use the car much one week but do 500 miles the next. I do only 3,000-5,000 pa in my car but it sits unsed for weeks then we might do 500-1000 in one period

That just means this model is not for you. It's not for everyone. No one has said it is.